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jaybee2003 wrote:

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Bentos wrote:

I'm just curious how all of a sudden did force run become this giant overpowered skill. Little hint for you old school force run2 = current force run3. Its the same speed, same terrain negotiation as it ever was. Just now you need to make a choice to buy it, its not a freebie that everyone will get just for leveling to guardian.

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It became overpowered with publish 9. It's no longer /forcerun3, it's /infinaterun3. Anyone with Master Enhancer just loops it like a COB macro (you regen faster than what it costs). Another Jedi with FR3 can't kill a Jedi with FR3. Even if you are right on top of him (zero meters away) and try the /saberthrow3 (which is a 30m attack), you will get the message "Target out of range". The server refresh rate can't keep up. So actually, it's /invulnerablerun3. You can try this on TC2 if you wish.

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Arjun,

Keep in mind that light jedi get mods that make offensive attacks stronger as well. Just like dark jedi get healing mods. It's just that light jedi end up with more healing mods, and dark jedi end up with more power mods.

Jedi CANNOT be taken out of the gcw. It's just that we need a method to level the frs so we arent hunting overts every moment of the day. Let us participate in raids. let us kick ass, but dont force us to prey on overts to gain levels.

Taking out xp from coverts and ONLY allowing us to gain xp from jedi would reduce us to a useless jedi dueling profession. We must have a place in the gcw. We must be able to kill overts like the rest, we just need proper motivation not to hunt them down endlessly. Think content!

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ArjunThakur wrote:

Intro Explanation

Let me explain a couple things to put this post in perspective....

1. If we don't take some concession on Forcerun3 and police ourselves, its going to get nerfed. This is just a fact. So either we take a deep breath and find some balance with this skill or you can put your blind trust in the devs decision as the complaints keep piling up. Think about it. Think hard and come up with some good suggestions or reason it should not be changed that take into account you and your opponent, don't just scream NO NERF.

2. FRS Jedi killing overts is also a big problem and very high on the complain list against Jedi. So again, either we work with the rest of the community here and help balance this or we can just sit back and cross our fingers..... Creating Jedi sub-factions is something being throw around in the correspondent forum which would allow Light and Dark Jedi to always fight each other and is still being explored.

You have to consider the complexity issues if we were to ask for a private dueling system. There are a plethora of exploits that come to mind immediately. Think simple and easy to implement.

3. Forcerun3 has to have some counter, and considering Dark Jedi need to take at least part of the Force Power tree to make good use of their force mods in the ranking system, having Choke cancel or prevent Force run simply makes sense. There very well could be a better suggestion for how to counter forcerun3, but be realistic about this, having forcerun3 should not mean you can get away from any fight, anywhere, anytime. That's not balanced. (And for the record my template is Master Saber/Enhance 4004 healing FOTM )

I also agree having feedback work against lightning/choke is just over the top.....however how do we address that without just a blatant nerf request?

So propose something different for number 6 if you want, but don't just disagree. I am exploring/proposing these suggestions because these issues are going to get addressed one way or the other. We can be proactive and head them off or just sit and be spoon fed.

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Ok we all know this is a problem. Right now we are getting about 50-100 FRS XP for a standard overt, and between 300-500 for a ranked Jedi.

This makes it very worthwhile to hunt down any overt you can find as tracking down and actually finishing off a ranked Jedi can be extremely hard....especially if they just run.

So what we have are a lot of Overt GCW players complaining about Jedi griefing, and Jedi defending themselves saying that the reward for killing another ranked Jedi just doesn't justify NOT hunting other overts.

In addition coverts are giving -1 FRS XP, so many players just stay covert and abuse the GTEF to make sure Jedi have no way to earn FRS XP.

So lets work up a proposal....from Chianti and several other posters this is what I have:

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1. Increase the Jedi vs. Jedi FRS XP by a factor of 5 making Jedi vs. Jedi very desirable

• This will most likely increase the pace at which Jedi fill the ranks, but will give focus to Jedi vs. Jedi fighting and allow the challenge systems to act as the stopgaps like they should be....not just a pure lack of FRS XP.

2. Remove FRS XP for normal overts

3. Increase the penalty for dying to an Overt by a factor of 3

This will encourage players hunting Jedi to go Overt, and discourage casual "griefing" of starports and other high profile areas by Jedi

4. Remove the FRS XP penalty vs. Coverts

• This will discourage players from abusing the group TEF bug and encourage more Overt play
• This will also fix the bug where Coverts with a TEF can grant Jedi FRS XP

5. Change Force Run 3 to cost less force to activate, but be a Force over time based skill....i.e. it uses 5-10 force per second...which is not crippling but also would prevent a Jedi with 0 force pool from running indefinately. Note, this is only a change to Force Run3

6. Make Force Choke cancel Force Run

• This would prevent Jedi from fleeing any battle at anytime and make the Force Power tree more desirable (yes I know it needs a lot more help than this)

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Message Edited by ArjunThakur on 07-09-2004 05:19 PM

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Thodious wrote:

Changes are coming. Help him out, because I willing to bet that if you leave the solutions to the devs, you really won't like the result.

Thodius

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i think non-jedi will start screaming bloody murder if we get 2 "revamps" in a row.

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Thodious wrote:

I can say is I'm glad I don't have Arjun's job.

Most of you gents don't get the fact that Arjun wants feedback AND constructive alternatives.

Simply disagreeing with him isn't as important as coming up with viable solutions.

Changes are coming. Help him out, because I willing to bet that if you leave the solutions to the devs, you really won't like the result.

Thodius

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• Make Defense actually defend the person. i.e. Melee block / bolt deflection etc.. Maybe move the force defense skills from enhance to this tree would be appropriate.


• Make the Jedi healing timer work like medic / doctor heals. Oh and put some self buffs in this line for those that master the tree.


• Take Lightsaber block / toughness out of the saber tree and make it something that all Jedi possess. Its rediculious that someone that decides to go with force powers as a damage type is majorly gimped for defenses.


• Force Powers needs some love in the matters of force cost vs. damage. Spread mods throughout the tree that increase damage output and lower force cost to make this tree worth mastering. Oh and vastly lower the cost on the intimidate skills to bring them in line with the brawler profession.

In the end allskill treesshould offer a painfull choice if you choose to not master them. Currently the onlyskill treeslike this are the Lightsaber tree and the Enhance tree.

Message Edited by Eldrikk on 07-09-2004 06:41 PM

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Eldrikk wrote:

Oh lastly balance the damn trees where everyone wont feel like they should master enchanter in the first place.

• Make Defense actually defend the person. i.e. Melee block / bolt deflection etc..


• Make the Jedi healing timer work like medic / doctor heals. Oh and put some self buffs in this line for those that master the tree.


• Take Lightsaber block / toughness out of the saber tree and make it something that all Jedi possess. Its rediculious that someone that decides to go with force powers as a damage type is majorly gimped for defenses.


• Force Powers needs some love in the matters of force cost vs. damage. Spread mods throughout the tree that increase damage output and lower force cost to make this tree worth mastering. Oh and vastly lower the cost on the intimidate skills to bring them in line with the brawler profession.

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