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Thread: Good or Bad news.
Slarus
Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:47 am
#196
normally I'd rebut but once again you are repeatinthe same arguments, and it is 2:15 AM here.
EU is in a place I'm not saying no FS in fact I've said FS is a good thing to have but no player Jedi. At least look from a RPing point of View most Jedi aren't intelligent wise calm people, genereally they're jerks unfortunately, though I have met some pretty cool ones.
EU is in a place I'm not saying no FS in fact I've said FS is a good thing to have but no player Jedi. At least look from a RPing point of View most Jedi aren't intelligent wise calm people, genereally they're jerks unfortunately, though I have met some pretty cool ones.
Ahh so it's just the title, what would you call a semi-trained Jedi, Bob?
SOE/LA announces Bob the profession!
Slarus
Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:35 am
#197
If SOE loses the deal with Lucasarts, EA will get the contract.
Personally I wouldn't blame Lucasarts if this happened.
The game really is a mess, just read countless reviews on other websites to see what average Joe Publics impression is...
Some professions still don't actually work you know? That really is unacceptable.
If by that you mean so they can design the new game, it's still bad for us as we lose our characters, SOE owns the system, they aren't going to hand it over to EA so SWG would be dead.
Mooko
Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:45 am
#198
Slarus wrote:
If SOE loses the deal with Lucasarts, EA will get the contract.
Personally I wouldn't blame Lucasarts if this happened.
The game really is a mess, just read countless reviews on other websites to see what average Joe Publics impression is...
Some professions still don't actually work you know? That really is unacceptable.
If by that you mean so they can design the new game, it's still bad for us as we lose our characters, SOE owns the system, they aren't going to hand it over to EA so SWG would be dead.
Well im no expert but EA is taken the reigns in Japan so something must be possible. Unless SOE provide all the material for EA and EA just runs the servers and forums.
Slarus
Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:52 am
#199
Well im no expert but EA is taken the reigns in Japan so something must be possible. Unless SOE provide all the material for EA and EA just runs the servers and forums.
Ok EA is doing server maintaince in Japan because of one reason SOE despite being Sony, is an American company, they are not equipped to handle distribution is Japan. EA is not developing new code, they implement what SOE does. This is how the rights work.
LA owns content, that means the stuff that is Star Wars, Jedi, AT-AT's, Stormtroopers, X-Wings, etc.
SOE owns the game system, that means how combat works, the way you gain XP, skills and the profession system (Not nessecerily the professions). Simpliy put they own the way the game works.
EA owns the distribution system needed in Japan, that means they have the servers needed in place, they have the retail contacts in Japan.
So dropping SOE would in fact end the game SWG as we know it, our subscriptions would be cancelled and we would have to wait. People read to much into subcontracting and are not familar with the rights of each entity.
Balzan
Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:48 pm
#200
You're atually most likely incorrect. Although the actual system will be SOEs LucasArts will have foreseen leaving SOE, and SOE also, so if the contractors were inelligent then SOE might have signed off the rights to call SWG their intellectual property, or at least make it so that LA had the right to change things in the code. Although SOE does the developmental process LucasArts owns the game, as Lucas in effect owns everything.
DO you really truly think Lucas actually signs his name on any contract now?
Look at the novelisation from a Phantom Menace, if Lucas had read it he would have vitoed it.
Remember the biggest Star Wars fanatic is Lucas and he wants all the Star Wars universre to fit in to HIS story. Considering Lucas appears to actually have begun to hate Star Wars I don't think he would be verifying games, do you realise he'd spend the rest of his life reading through novelisations, playing games, etc.
He is a very busy man.
DO you really truly think Lucas actually signs his name on any contract now?
Look at the novelisation from a Phantom Menace, if Lucas had read it he would have vitoed it.
Remember the biggest Star Wars fanatic is Lucas and he wants all the Star Wars universre to fit in to HIS story. Considering Lucas appears to actually have begun to hate Star Wars I don't think he would be verifying games, do you realise he'd spend the rest of his life reading through novelisations, playing games, etc.
He is a very busy man.
Slarus
Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:44 pm
#201
You're atually most likely incorrect. Although the actual system will be SOEs LucasArts will have foreseen leaving SOE, and SOE also, so if the contractors were inelligent then SOE might have signed off the rights to call SWG their intellectual property, or at least make it so that LA had the right to change things in the code. Although SOE does the developmental process LucasArts owns the game, as Lucas in effect owns everything.
Nope sorry, I hate to disagree with you but I am a designer and know it would have cost a prohibitive amount to contract SOE to design the game (Plus LA has in house designers), implement changes, and hose the infrastructure. You have said you dont really know, well I do, and this is very standard. It's hard to frasp, but in reality if LA is unhappy with SOE they can develop thier own game or hired another company to develop a game. It is almost unheard of to hire a developer and buy the intellectual creation. It just simply isn't true.
DO you really truly think Lucas actually signs his name on any contract now?
Look at the novelisation from a Phantom Menace, if Lucas had read it he would have vitoed it.
Remember the biggest Star Wars fanatic is Lucas and he wants all the Star Wars universre to fit in to HIS story. Considering Lucas appears to actually have begun to hate Star Wars I don't think he would be verifying games, do you realise he'd spend the rest of his life reading through novelisations, playing games, etc.
He is a very busy man.
DO you really truly think Lucas actually signs his name on any contract now?
Look at the novelisation from a Phantom Menace, if Lucas had read it he would have vitoed it.
Remember the biggest Star Wars fanatic is Lucas and he wants all the Star Wars universre to fit in to HIS story. Considering Lucas appears to actually have begun to hate Star Wars I don't think he would be verifying games, do you realise he'd spend the rest of his life reading through novelisations, playing games, etc.
He is a very busy man.
Busy with what then? It's easy to say he has no involvement, but then what does he do? While I agree he doesn't read every line of ever book, he gets summaries, reports from his underlings, he reads the dailies from his films, games, and extra including dailies from SOE. It makes it convient to blame others from any problems by using this distancing method, but Lucas, gets some pretty detailed info on this game, hate to say it, but much as you and other detractors wish it, it is almost certain he knows of the inculsion of Jedi in this game.
if you don't know or have an educated opinion all you do is post fears and/or empty hopes, like it or not LA has no magic wand, without SOE, LA would not do any better and you will lose the SWG you know now, if it doesn't make sense to you, sorry but this is the reality of the game design business. LA has the biggest power in this, SOE operates at thier discresion but SOE does own the game system I can't make it any clearer, all I can do is give an example of what actually did happen to one of Lucas' licences.
West End games (Designers of the d6 RPG system) created a Star Wars RPG, when they lost the Star Wars licence, Lucas went to Wizards of the Coast, who got the Star Wars licence, they however did not get the d6 system it was owned by West End, so Wizards developed thier own system for the Star Wars RPG, the d20 system. Same game, same content, different system.
Decipher cards created a Star Wars CCG, when they lost thier licence Lucas went to Wizards once again, now Wizards had that licence, did they use the CCG that Decipher created? No they did not own it, they created a totally new CCG but it once again had the same name, and same basic content.
Video games are no different legal wise and operate under the same basic copyright laws, the only way LA owns the code is if LA bought full rights to the system, then if LA ever broke with SOE, not only would SWG shutdown, but SOE could never use that system on any future projects (West End games still uses thier d6 system for other games). SWGs developers work for SOE, not Lucas so if Lucas split it would be tough even if they owned the system to design new elements or correct bugs, as they did not design the game. So in order for LA to run SWG without SOE, and assuming they paid through the nose for full rights to the code, they would have to hope and pray to hire the design tem from SOE if LA broke off from SOE, because the Lucas people dont know the system. It's impractical, it's prohibitvily expensive, it makes no sense from a professional point of view to operate like this. If LA is displeased with SOE it is far easier and less expensive to design a new game and relese it instead of working with someone elses lagacy code, the costs and time to adjust are just too much. Also consider this when West End games, and Decipher lost the licences it was almost a year for the Wizards versions of those products to be released, and people flocked to them, so by all accounts Lucas can close SWG down, hire or desing in house a new MMOPRG and have most if not all previous SWG customers return to the new game in the few years it would take, and LA spent a tenth of the money to start ALL over then to buy the system from SOE and learn to work a system they did not create. The math just doesn't support SWG exsisting without SOE.
Balzan
Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:15 pm
#202
Slarus wrote:You're atually most likely incorrect. Although the actual system will be SOEs LucasArts will have foreseen leaving SOE, and SOE also, so if the contractors were inelligent then SOE might have signed off the rights to call SWG their intellectual property, or at least make it so that LA had the right to change things in the code. Although SOE does the developmental process LucasArts owns the game, as Lucas in effect owns everything.Nope sorry, I hate to disagree with you but I am a designer and know it would have cost a prohibitive amount to contract SOE to design the game (Plus LA has in house designers), implement changes, and hose the infrastructure. You have said you dont really know, well I do, and this is very standard. It's hard to frasp, but in reality if LA is unhappy with SOE they can develop thier own game or hired another company to develop a game. It is almost unheard of to hire a developer and buy the intellectual creation. It just simply isn't true.
You've got to be kidding me, because you work for a company you knwo the inner workings of Lucas Arts? Hello that is a rather pathetic argument. Just becuase your company does one thing doesn't mean it will stick. It is also possible that Lucas Arts would pay for the rights for the game (look at BioWare's Knights of the Old Republic although BioWare is not making it's sequel Obsidian is still using their system, which means LucasArts can and do buy thier systems.
I am not naive to assume I know anything about how LucasArts work, except I do know that they aren't like other companies, at least not when dealing with Star Wars.
DO you really truly think Lucas actually signs his name on any contract now?
Look at the novelisation from a Phantom Menace, if Lucas had read it he would have vitoed it.
Remember the biggest Star Wars fanatic is Lucas and he wants all the Star Wars universre to fit in to HIS story. Considering Lucas appears to actually have begun to hate Star Wars I don't think he would be verifying games, do you realise he'd spend the rest of his life reading through novelisations, playing games, etc.
He is a very busy man.Busy with what then? It's easy to say he has no involvement, but then what does he do? While I agree he doesn't read every line of ever book, he gets summaries, reports from his underlings, he reads the dailies from his films, games, and extra including dailies from SOE. It makes it convient to blame others from any problems by using this distancing method, but Lucas, gets some pretty detailed info on this game, hate to say it, but much as you and other detractors wish it, it is almost certain he knows of the inculsion of Jedi in this game.if you don't know or have an educated opinion all you do is post fears and/or empty hopes, like it or not LA has no magic wand, without SOE, LA would not do any better and you will lose the SWG you know now, if it doesn't make sense to you, sorry but this is the reality of the game design business. LA has the biggest power in this, SOE operates at thier discresion but SOE does own the game system I can't make it any clearer, all I can do is give an example of what actually did happen to one of Lucas' licences.West End games (Designers of the d6 RPG system) created a Star Wars RPG, when they lost the Star Wars licence, Lucas went to Wizards of the Coast, who got the Star Wars licence, they however did not get the d6 system it was owned by West End, so Wizards developed thier own system for the Star Wars RPG, the d20 system. Same game, same content, different system.Decipher cards created a Star Wars CCG, when they lost thier licence Lucas went to Wizards once again, now Wizards had that licence, did they use the CCG that Decipher created? No they did not own it, they created a totally new CCG but it once again had the same name, and same basic content.Video games are no different legal wise and operate under the same basic copyright laws, the only way LA owns the code is if LA bought full rights to the system, then if LA ever broke with SOE, not only would SWG shutdown, but SOE could never use that system on any future projects (West End games still uses thier d6 system for other games). SWGs developers work for SOE, not Lucas so if Lucas split it would be tough even if they owned the system to design new elements or correct bugs, as they did not design the game. So in order for LA to run SWG without SOE, and assuming they paid through the nose for full rights to the code, they would have to hope and pray to hire the design tem from SOE if LA broke off from SOE, because the Lucas people dont know the system. It's impractical, it's prohibitvily expensive, it makes no sense from a professional point of view to operate like this. If LA is displeased with SOE it is far easier and less expensive to design a new game and relese it instead of working with someone elses lagacy code, the costs and time to adjust are just too much. Also consider this when West End games, and Decipher lost the licences it was almost a year for the Wizards versions of those products to be released, and people flocked to them, so by all accounts Lucas can close SWG down, hire or desing in house a new MMOPRG and have most if not all previous SWG customers return to the new game in the few years it would take, and LA spent a tenth of the money to start ALL over then to buy the system from SOE and learn to work a system they did not create. The math just doesn't support SWG exsisting without SOE.
Like it or not you know nothing about Lucas Arts, George Lucas, SOE/LA agreement, and in fact you're only posting your own fears and hopes with SWG. Bioware also made the KoToR system yet it would appear Lucas Arts has either the right to that also, or they have leased them.
In case you haven't been playing this is no card game it is no pnp game and LucasArts know that. If they close the game they lose about $15 per person per month, not exactly a wise decision is it? let's say there are an average of 300 thousand people playing for a month that's what 1.5 million lost in a month, do you think they'd risk that much I doubt it somewhat!
There are no wands, so stop referring to them sheesh.
Even if LucasArts don't cut Jedi out, at least there will be a ast improvement on CSRs. SOE CSRs know squat it's not their faults but Sony's, as they don't inform them of anything.
Massadonious
Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:41 pm
#203
Slarus wrote:
I guess you missed the partswith Stormtroopers, Super Star Destroyers, X-Wings, Y-Wings, A-Wings, B-Wings, TIE Fighters, Grand Moff Tarkin,Ewoks, Jawas, Sand People, Rebels, Imperials, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Chewbacca, C-3PO, R2-D2, Jabba The Hutt, Bib Fortuna, Oola, the band at Jabba's palace, Gammoreans,Boba Fett, The Rancor, The Sarlaac, Lando Calrissian, his Sullstan co-pilot, Biggs, Wedge, TonTons, the Snow Creature, Snowspeeders, The Falcon, Banthas, AT-AT's, AT-ST's, E11 Carbines and Rifles, Dewbacks, Greedo, DL-44 pistols, Mos Eisley, The Death Star, Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, X34 Speeders, Swoops, Speederbikes, Endor, Hoth, Bespin,Scout Troopers, Snow Troopers.
Oh yeah, then there's Jedi.
Nitpicky aren't we, but were not talking about equipment or NPCs, we are talking about player characters.
his Sullstan co-pilot Nein Nuub, not sure on the spelling but that is the name.
I was just pointing out that there is more to Star Wars than Jedi. Wish you people would realize that.
Along those same lines, SOE can pull from that content without having to resort to Jedi to sell. JTL is a perfect example.
Balzan
Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:47 pm
#204
Massadonious wrote:
Slarus wrote:I guess you missed the parts with Stormtroopers, Super Star Destroyers, X-Wings, Y-Wings, A-Wings, B-Wings, TIE Fighters, Grand Moff Tarkin, Ewoks, Jawas, Sand People, Rebels, Imperials, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Chewbacca, C-3PO, R2-D2, Jabba The Hutt, Bib Fortuna, Oola, the band at Jabba's palace, Gammoreans, Boba Fett, The Rancor, The Sarlaac, Lando Calrissian, his Sullstan co-pilot, Biggs, Wedge, TonTons, the Snow Creature, Snowspeeders, The Falcon, Banthas, AT-AT's, AT-ST's, E11 Carbines and Rifles, Dewbacks, Greedo, DL-44 pistols, Mos Eisley, The Death Star, Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, X34 Speeders, Swoops, Speederbikes, Endor, Hoth, Bespin, Scout Troopers, Snow Troopers.Oh yeah, then there's Jedi.Nitpicky aren't we, but were not talking about equipment or NPCs, we are talking about player characters.his Sullstan co-pilot Nein Nuub, not sure on the spelling but that is the name.I was just pointing out that there is more to Star Wars than Jedi. Wish you people would realize that.
Along those same lines, SOE can pull from that content without having to resort to Jedi to sell. JTL is a perfect example.
Hurah I agree with you!
Star Wars is not Jedi saying that Star Wars is Jedi is like saying computers are just a case.
Balzan
Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:43 am
#205
Haaaa you are so wrong. Bioware has complete rights over KoToR, it is thier graphic system, it is their way of implementation, it was designed solely by Bioware. It is quite similar to SWG, as there are certain rules that are set by their head company (LucasArts for SWG and WoEC for KoToR), though each company used what they wanted and what they didn't. It is the same thing. Bioware only used the D&D based D20 rule system apart from that WoEC had very little to do with it (it's Bioware's preffered method).
I didn't say I know nothing, but I know nothing of the SOE/LA agreement.
The example is KoToR, it is the exact same thing, and it's LucasArts both times.
I didn't say I know nothing, but I know nothing of the SOE/LA agreement.
The example is KoToR, it is the exact same thing, and it's LucasArts both times.
Balzan
Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:46 am
#206
Ohhh and LucasArts is taking over, incase you hadn't noticed this:
http://www.lucasarts.com/jobs/descriptions/?ID=director
http://www.lucasarts.com/jobs/descriptions/?ID=director
BrotherDavius
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:22 am
#207
Massadonious wrote:
Slarus wrote:
I guess you missed the partswith Stormtroopers, Super Star Destroyers, X-Wings, Y-Wings, A-Wings, B-Wings, TIE Fighters, Grand Moff Tarkin,Ewoks, Jawas, Sand People, Rebels, Imperials, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Chewbacca, C-3PO, R2-D2, Jabba The Hutt, Bib Fortuna, Oola, the band at Jabba's palace, Gammoreans,Boba Fett, The Rancor, The Sarlaac, Lando Calrissian, his Sullstan co-pilot, Biggs, Wedge, TonTons, the Snow Creature, Snowspeeders, The Falcon, Banthas, AT-AT's, AT-ST's, E11 Carbines and Rifles, Dewbacks, Greedo, DL-44 pistols, Mos Eisley, The Death Star, Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, X34 Speeders, Swoops, Speederbikes, Endor, Hoth, Bespin,Scout Troopers, Snow Troopers.
Oh yeah, then there's Jedi.
Nitpicky aren't we, but were not talking about equipment or NPCs, we are talking about player characters.
his Sullstan co-pilot Nein Nuub, not sure on the spelling but that is the name.
I was just pointing out that there is more to Star Wars than Jedi. Wish you people would realize that.
Along those same lines, SOE can pull from that content without having to resort to Jedi to sell. JTL is a perfect example.
But that would mean that KOTOR is not star wars as it has not got any of the things in it that you think make star wars? How dose that work.
Slarus
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:04 am
#208
Haaaa you are so wrong. Bioware has complete rights over KoToR, it is thier graphic system, it is their way of implementation, it was designed solely by Bioware. It is quite similar to SWG, as there are certain rules that are set by their head company (LucasArts for SWG and WoEC for KoToR), though each company used what they wanted and what they didn't. It is the same thing. Bioware only used the D&D based D20 rule system apart from that WoEC had very little to do with it (it's Bioware's preffered method).
I didn't say I know nothing, but I know nothing of the SOE/LA agreement.
The example is KoToR, it is the exact same thing, and it's LucasArts both times.
I didn't say I know nothing, but I know nothing of the SOE/LA agreement.
The example is KoToR, it is the exact same thing, and it's LucasArts both times.
Yet you claim not to know much and you continue to show it. Bioware's KOTOR is based on d20, they needed to aquire the rights for that, which is why KOTOR 2 will used the same basics, the graphics as you put it are done on a program that you can buy called Maya, the art work if designed by bioware is thiers as is any unique aspects outside of any other rights, but usually that is not a problem for one time rights for a new game. I dont know of very many who sell the game engine, there are some, but usually it is a highly successful engine, like Doom's engine. In KOTORs case the system was developed by a third party vendor and that third party retains the systems rights.
You can't seem to accept a fact that doesn't fit your little world view that Lucas will somehow save SWG, reasoning is changing theories to suit facts, not facts to suit thoeries, you profess to not knowing the SOE/LA agreement so you make up things rearrange rights and make LA into saviors and the facts don't support it. In this day and age, many peices of one pie are in fact broken up and owned by several parties, you don't have to accept that but it happens.
Ohhh and LucasArts is taking over, incase you hadn't noticed this:
http://www.lucasarts.com/jobs/descriptions/?ID=director
http://www.lucasarts.com/jobs/descriptions/?ID=director
Your beginning to go from ignorant poster, to plain jerk, did you even read this posting? It's clear you didn't.
1. This is not a new positon, but an exsisting position, read the Friday features on a Devs day, this is the LA rep position, that mean since it seems you need explaination the LA rep who oversees the SWG at SOE and reports to the Priesident of LA.
2. Lucas fired over 100 people, not hired this is inconsistant with the needs of an MMORPG, they don't have the staff, they don't have the developers as they work for SOE.
3. You have got no remote concept of why this position is open, they don't say for a new project, they dont say last guy got fired, promoted, moved to another compnay, you don't know.
4. this is the bog one right ver baitem from the posting:
OUTSIDE DEVELOPER, game over.
EXTERNAL DEVELOPER, game over.
This job is a liasion to SOE from LA, this is like a general manager, it proves that Lucas and SOE are still together as points right there says so.
Game over, stop wasting peoples time and generating false fear/hopes.