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Thread: An attempt at reasonable pricing JerGo Spacecraft Sales Ship Pricing/Resource Info. NDA Lifted
Message Edited by DingoBoi on 10-26-2004 05:24 PM
nefarious2 wrote:
Diorchas wrote:
But anyone, including other shipwrights, that propose selling finished products at a fiscal loss are harming the integrity of the market.I'm sorry, but can you please explain this statement.If I do my own mining, and all the costs for harvs and such equal <.5cpu, making it that I can sell them for a nice profit at 2cpu is harming the integrity of the market.The way I see it. It is some of the weapon/armorsmiths who have had people offer them millions for their wares that have them pricing products as they do, and in turn pushing up the value of the resources.In a fair market you would see resources sell for 1-1.5cpu with a 2cpu max and the final product would sell for 2.5-3cpu(plus what ever markup the maker wanted). My fired was a fairly sucessful WS and he had the lowest prices in one mall, and the other WS had to lower their prices to keep up. He was still making more money than he spent because we did all of the mining for ourselves.
It's very simple, actually. If you sell a finished product for less than the fair market value of the resources used to build it you are compromising the market value of the finished product.
As a businessman, why would I waste time as a shipwright when I can sell the resources to MAKE the ships for five times as much as the shipwright can sell his finished product for? It's asinine. You do more work for far less money, not to mention the insane amount of resources you chew through just to GET to Master Shipwright.
You need to understand my argument before you can refute it. And the simple fact is that I have no intention of making more money as a shipwright than as my character's current profession as a resources wholesaler. I only want to be able to sell ships at the same price as my resources. I'd love to hear a valid, logical argument as to why I am being unreasonable here. What businessman in his right mind would take a significant loss like that?
DingoBoi wrote:
no.
Why it dose not cost you as much in the long run to mine your own stuff.
Diorchas wrote:
nefarious2 wrote:
Diorchas wrote:
But anyone, including other shipwrights, that propose selling finished products at a fiscal loss are harming the integrity of the market.
I'm sorry, but can you please explain this statement.
If I do my own mining, and all the costs for harvs and such equal <.5cpu, making it that I can sell them for a nice profit at 2cpu is harming the integrity of the market.
The way I see it. It is some of the weapon/armorsmiths who have had people offer them millions for their wares that have them pricing products as they do, and in turn pushing up the value of the resources.
In a fair market you would see resources sell for 1-1.5cpu with a 2cpu max and the final product would sell for 2.5-3cpu(plus what ever markup the maker wanted). My fired was a fairly sucessful WS and he had the lowest prices in one mall, and the other WS had to lower their prices to keep up. He was still making more money than he spent because we did all of the mining for ourselves.
It's very simple, actually. If you sell a finished product for less than the fair market value of the resources used to build it you are compromising the market value of the finished product.
As a businessman, why would I waste time as a shipwright when I can sell the resources to MAKE the ships for five times as much as the shipwright can sell his finished product for? It's asinine. You do more work for far less money, not to mention the insane amount of resources you chew through just to GET to Master Shipwright.
You need to understand my argument before you can refute it. And the simple fact is that I have no intention of making more money as a shipwright than as my character's current profession as a resources wholesaler. I only want to be able to sell ships at the same price as my resources. I'd love to hear a valid, logical argument as to why I am being unreasonable here. What businessman in his right mind would take a significant loss like that?
But by me mining the resources I get the resources for <.5cpu how is that a significant loss? I used to run a resource guild but everyone wanted to sell for more, which in turn drives up the prices of everything else. That is one reason that everthing is so expensive. If we have a lot of SWs mining what they need to sell their ships I think that the market value will drop down to a more reasonable level, because, as you said it, resources should not sell for more than the finished product.
I'm not trying to argue about who should charge what for their ships. If you want to sell them for 5-6cpu good luck, I hope that you have a good business going. But that isn't something that I like, and as a business owner I can try and keep my prices at a reasonable level, and if other SWs follow suit then hopefully it will cause other crafting professions to follow(never going to happen, but hey).
nefarious2 wrote:
Diorchas wrote:
nefarious2 wrote:
Diorchas wrote:
But anyone, including other shipwrights, that propose selling finished products at a fiscal loss are harming the integrity of the market.
I'm sorry, but can you please explain this statement.
If I do my own mining, and all the costs for harvs and such equal <.5cpu, making it that I can sell them for a nice profit at 2cpu is harming the integrity of the market.
The way I see it. It is some of the weapon/armorsmiths who have had people offer them millions for their wares that have them pricing products as they do, and in turn pushing up the value of the resources.
In a fair market you would see resources sell for 1-1.5cpu with a 2cpu max and the final product would sell for 2.5-3cpu(plus what ever markup the maker wanted). My fired was a fairly sucessful WS and he had the lowest prices in one mall, and the other WS had to lower their prices to keep up. He was still making more money than he spent because we did all of the mining for ourselves.
It's very simple, actually. If you sell a finished product for less than the fair market value of the resources used to build it you are compromising the market value of the finished product.
As a businessman, why would I waste time as a shipwright when I can sell the resources to MAKE the ships for five times as much as the shipwright can sell his finished product for? It's asinine. You do more work for far less money, not to mention the insane amount of resources you chew through just to GET to Master Shipwright.
You need to understand my argument before you can refute it. And the simple fact is that I have no intention of making more money as a shipwright than as my character's current profession as a resources wholesaler. I only want to be able to sell ships at the same price as my resources. I'd love to hear a valid, logical argument as to why I am being unreasonable here. What businessman in his right mind would take a significant loss like that?
But by me mining the resources I get the resources for <.5cpu how is that a significant loss? I used to run a resource guild but everyone wanted to sell for more, which in turn drives up the prices of everything else. That is one reason that everthing is so expensive. If we have a lot of SWs mining what they need to sell their ships I think that the market value will drop down to a more reasonable level, because, as you said it, resources should not sell for more than the finished product.
I'm not trying to argue about who should charge what for their ships. If you want to sell them for 5-6cpu good luck, I hope that you have a good business going. But that isn't something that I like, and as a business owner I can try and keep my prices at a reasonable level, and if other SWs follow suit then hopefully it will cause other crafting professions to follow(never going to happen, but hey).
What he is saying is that there will be two types of shipwrights in this game:
Onewill buy is stuff from miners and base the price of the ship on how much it cost him to get it......
The other will mine his own stuff and base the price of his ship on how much it cost him to mine it.
So the one that buy his own stuff will have to charge at a higher rate just to make a profit, while the other can charge less but stll make about the same amount of profit.
BrotherDavius wrote:
DingoBoi wrote:
no.
Why it dose not cost you as much in the long run to mine your own stuff.
DingoBoi wrote:
BrotherDavius wrote:
DingoBoi wrote:
no.
Why it dose not cost you as much in the long run to mine your own stuff.
if i buy resources say at 3cpu to make ships.. i'm going to sell at 6cpu (example only here of doubling cost to sales price)
if i mine my own resources...it costs. say .5cpu real cost... doubling that would give me a sales price of 1cpu and still making the same ratio of profit.
However it really is a net loss. If I was mining my own... i'd rather sell the resources outright at 3cpu than work to make ships that sell at 1cpu. it's opportunity cost Because the resources are worth 3cpu regardless of whether they were mined by myself or bought from a vendor.
As i pointed out in my last post not every shipwright will but there stuff some like the poster here will mine it them selfs and are not in the mineing trade to sell it they are in it to make ships.
As time gose by the cost of resorce my go down as shipwrights find out they can make more money mining it and selling at a lower price.
Let me put it to you this way, you want 1 million units of steel you have 2 options:
1.mine it it would cost you about 100k-200k i think.
2. buy it, that much steel would cost you 1-6 million credits.
So you see even before the shipwright makes ships he will make alot more cash mining than buying driving the resorce market down which is a good thing.