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Thread: just a thought
Well if that ever happens Entertaining would no longer be a profession but only a hobby.
There is no way we could continue to call ourselves unique class and have no dues to pay.
Personally I hope it will never happen.
I do understand the desire of non-entertainer professions to be able to dance or play music, but to do it this way would, in my opinion, kill us off as a class completely.
Why not instead let masters ID have unique skill similar to Holo-Emotes which would grant non-entertainer ability to dance for a set time duration? Of course it would only be the animation and no healing/buffing benefits to it. AND it would only be the base of a dance, any dance, in order to flourish they would have to be grouped with a real dancer who would /bandflourish them.
So that way on parties everyone can dance and have a good time but true entertainers would still be unique class. Also this way entertaining would not become a hobby and in spirit of interdependency of classes it would take cooperation of 3 classes:
-non-entertainer with desire to temporarily party,
-ID to grant him/her the limited ability to do so
-actual dancer to make them flourish.
Ok I know I got kind of sidetracked here, but I guess the idea of no SP did scare me a little.
Deli'ah
kirah_ashlin wrote:I still say that if entertainers were reduced to zero skill points we'd end up having zero respect from any players, zero use to the game and zero attention from the devs. Eventually, there would be zero entertainers. Politicians are required to run player cities. Entertainers wouldn't be necessary for anything.
Entertainers get respect?
Entertainers get attention frm the des?
There are a lot of entertainers right now?
It seems to me at least on the server I play... That there are only two groups of entetrainers. One is a very small group that plays for each other and anyone who spends a second or two interacting. This group does so because dancing and music are fun things to do. If dance and music had 0 skill point cost more of the role players and people who used to have dance but dropped it to be viable in combat or because they added another craft would take it up again. This group of entetrainers would only increase in size.
The other group is alt account characters used to buff up combat characters or to get a FS skill three while AFK. I'm willing to bet this group actually makes up the true majority of entertainers across the various servers at this point. If this group had no benefit from dance or music you'd never see them waste their time by taking this skill on their alts or having their alts anywhere near a cantina or theater. This group would stop dancing and spamming and move on to the next needed suport character type.
The only thing I would say is a real concern and a real negative to the idea of making healing and mind buffing a doctor or medic skill rather than a dancer skill is that our audience would have no reason to see us. If the people who normally watch us are dancing with us instead of acting as our audience we'd have a slight adjustment to make in how we dance. The people who dance fo r the audience would have to change to the idea of dancing with their troupe. I am sure there are a couple of people who would not like to do this.
Cantina's would become places like the cantina crawl videos instead of places where a couple of entertainers were dancing and playing music for the people who needed a song and dance between lairs.
All I know right now is that our skill point cost is not in line with our content amounts and income earning potential. Something definately has to be done before I see anymore of my friends leave and not replaced by new entertainers who love playing the profession (what I have been dealing with since about Aug/Sep of '03). Maybe playing on Bria is different, I don't know. On Tarquinas and Lowca the two servers I played daily, the amount of entertainers that actually choose the profession because they enjoy playing it has slowly diminished to almost 0.
I disagree with this.
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
Any true entertainer does not mind the skill cost. You can master a combat profession and dancer or musician, and still take part in any pve or pvp content. Only the people unwilling to sacrifice anything from their uber template are the ones crying for reducing entertainer to zero cost. Don't give in to them.
Schardour wrote:The Entertainment Healing line (and the Master Ent box) provide no bonuses to Fatigue Healing, according to the skill boxes. I don't think you receive a bonus at Novice, either, do you?Edit: The first +10 to Battle Fatigue Healing comes at Novice Dancer / Musician, according to the skill trees on a Character Builder I just visited.Message Edited by Schardour on 02-07-2005 03:51 PM
A Novice Entertainer can heal battle fatigue. I was recently testing mind wound healing numbers on Test Center and on live and used a Novice Entertainer to do the healing, and my battle fatigue was indeed being healed (and the entertainer was getting xp for healing it).
Just popping in to say I'm also paying attention to this thread carefully and taking notes. I'll go ahead and place a link on the Musician board to see if any of us music types haven't seen the thread yet.
Also, my choice of language earlier on "fun but not functional" was probably poor. My personal (player, non-corr) views *do* want us to have some function, but not one that is so heavily relied on like mind buffs which are seen as absolutely necessary for PvP. Drygo hit the nail on the head on my thoughts, in that we should be desirable as tailors, IDs, and architects are desirable now, but not so desperately needed that people expect us to drop anything we're doing to perform our function for them. But I don't want us to end up as just a bunch of emotes.
But not very well at all. In that session it took a novice entertainerfresh off the transportabout 35 minutes to heal over 800 BF. We were collecting numbers on wound healing at the time so didn't record the BF infobut we do remember commenting that it was over 800 when we started.
Aleyo wrote:
A Novice Entertainer can heal battle fatigue.
I can see the positives. You would be able to have better get-togethers where everyone could dance and play, not just the dancers and musicians, because everyone would be a dancer/musician. You could remove battle fatigue and give mind wound healing and buffing to medics/docs because what would be the point? Everyone would be healing themselves anyway - it would just be added down-time for no reason. And there is another benefit - there would be no more ent healing downtime so people who don't want to go to the cantina dont have to.
So why do I feel so depressed?
Maybe its because I've been playing my Master ID so heavily lately and I would be very afraid of loosing the skill points for her. It would totally devalue her profession. Why pay an ID when you can just be one yourself? And I'd be back killing things to make a living. Frankly, I have enough characters who kill things for a living. It gets old.
You make choices in this game. That's what we tell people who come into the Scout forum wanting terrain negotiation to be given to all professions. If you want terrain negotiation you have to pay the cost, and figure that into your overall template strategy. It is what makes Scout worthwhile to take. It is what makes any profession worthwhile to take. It is what gives you a role. It is what makes you unique.
I would be very sad to see Dancer and Musician cease to be professions and become just the existence of dance and music in the game.
Schardour wrote:
I disagree with this.
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
Any true entertainer does not mind the skill cost. You can master a combat profession and dancer or musician, and still take part in any pve or pvp content. Only the people unwilling to sacrifice anything from their uber template are the ones crying for reducing entertainer to zero cost. Don't give in to them.
Under certain conditions, I would entertain the idea of reducing the entire profession to zero skill points. Of course, those conditions aren't met at present, but even as aDE / Dancer, I would've loved to have seen some amount of social content available to more players. If that content is only available in the Entertainer professions, then why not?
Because combat and crafting content is not available to the social professions. (well, I guess crafting instruments)
If I want to make myself some clothes, I need to pick up tailor. If I want to go kill a rancor and loot hunt...and for that matter become glowy or do the vast majority of quests in the game, I need to pick up combat. Similarly, if I want to dance, and play music, and participate in social content such as being in a band, then I need to pick up entertainer.
I do agree with you about one thing though. I would have absolutely no problem with a non-entertainer picking up anywhere from 1-3 low level dances. In a way, I do feel kind of bad that non-ents come to a party and they can never dance. Even realistically, anyone can go into a club, whether you're a professional dancer or not, and do some type of dancing. You may not look great doing it, but you can still do it. That, of course, does not hold true for playing music. However, I would say, a normal person should be able to put on make up and lipstick (female,...or male for that matter).
But, I think anything above and beyond that should require the sacrifice of skill points. And, if non-ents *do* want to dance, why not give us the content instead? Why not allow us to teach non-ents up to 3 of the lowest dances so that they can dance at a party if they want to? There are a lot of people that live in my city who enjoy RP and social gatherings so much that they have actually spent 15 skill points to pick up novice entertainer. They're willing to do that for their character so he/she can do some basic at parties. I don't see why a combat only character should get these benefits. They made the choices on how to shape their character. And, if their main concern is PvP, I don't understand why they should be able to dance or play music or do their hair without some sacrifice. Despite this, I do think that there's a good possiblity of content for us if we were able to teach some of the low level dances...assuming the entertainer community actually charges for them and doesn't fall back on the "tip what you want" line.
Another possibility includes musicians recording music for merchants to play in their houses. Something that would take resources (droids, batteries, an artisan to make the disks)...music that has no healing or buffing capabilities, but that provides ambience, something that costs us money to produce, which we in turn pass on to the consumer, something that decays so people have to buy more of them. That is the kind of thing I'd like to see. Things that people desire, but don't need, and will provide us with a real income like tailors and ID's.
Message Edited by Drygo on 02-07-2005 04:24 PM
Message Edited by MyT_Chicken on 02-07-2005 04:39 PM
MyT_Chicken wrote:
So why are we even considering the possibility of just giving thatup? I really don't understand this.....
/endflail
Because a lot of us might be sick of our game play centering around providing services for an ungrateful and demanding lot of others when we really just want to dance?
We are having this discussion because discussion is where ideas are born. We have a revamp coming up, maybe as soon as six months from now. We are likely to have a lot of discussions between now and then and I'm sure there are many who are going to flail around & over-react to each of them as though they were the future of entertainers & etched in stone. Relax..open your mind and discuss. You don't like this idea? Post some of your own.
Esharra wrote:
But not very well at all. In that session it took a novice entertainerfresh off the transportabout 35 minutes to heal over 800 BF. We were collecting numbers on wound healing at the time so didn't record the BF infobut we do remember commenting that it was over 800 when we started.
Aleyo wrote:
A Novice Entertainer can heal battle fatigue.
You guys don't sound anything like Kirah and Roho! Or Ubi and Lei! Or any of the other Ent couples! I was in the same room with you two at Deila's chat and there was no snogging at all!
*is still in total shock*
We're shy?
Panthu wrote:
Esharra wrote:
But not very well at all. In that session it took a novice entertainerfresh off the transportabout 35 minutes to heal over 800 BF. We were collecting numbers on wound healing at the time so didn't record the BF infobut we do remember commenting that it was over 800 when we started.
Aleyo wrote:
A Novice Entertainer can heal battle fatigue.
You guys don't sound anything like Kirah and Roho! Or Ubi and Lei! Or any of the other Ent couples! I was in the same room with you two at Deila's chat and there was no snogging at all!
*is still in total shock*