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Needs to be balanced against xp decay. It wouldn't do to have ranked members who only have to fight once or twice a week to retain their rank.
2. and 3.
Taken together, you may have just removed the incentive to fight overts at all. While you may be encouraging regular players to "go overt", you are also encouraging FRS players to "run like hell".
For the FRS player, there is a big potential loss and no potential gain.
4.
How about simply making it a requirement that you must be overt to attack an FRS player? (And maybe vice-versa...have to think about that.)
(Also, if you take your numbers 2 and 4 together, you create a situation where it is profitable to hunt coverts, but unprofitable to hunt overts.)
5.
Players with 0 force cannot forcerun.
6.
I can maybe see that, depending on the range of force choke. If it can't be used beyond 30m, then that's a very short window in which to stick it to someone who just fired up force run 3. And there won't be many with choke and run3, so it's not like they'll chase him down and choke him to stop him.
ArjunThakur wrote:
That could happen, but then the dark jedi would not get his FRS XP. I know this idea would be strongly unpopular, and I haven't submitted anything to the devs, but recognize that there are plenty of Jedi very frustrated by the impossibility of killing a Jedi with Forcerun3.
What if Choke countered forcerun3, would that work?
ArjunThakur wrote:
1. Increase the Jedi vs. Jedi FRS XP by a factor of 5 making Jedi vs. Jedi very desirable
- This will most likely increase the pace at which Jedi fill the ranks, but will give focus to Jedi vs. Jedi fighting and allow the challenge systems to act as the stopgaps like they should be....not just a pure lack of FRS XP.
No - we need a WHOLE NEW APPROACH...my proposal...
Remove jedi from the gcw...let overt PvP return to normal...it is the endgame for mundane combat profs. For light jedi, advancement should be MORE like the politician class, and be based on a combination of senoirity and voting....it should be based on political infighting and formation of alliances...progress could be gated, like politician, by having periodic elections...
Dark jedi would advance through PvP duels with each other...soley. The darkside is a constant struggle for power by POWER MAD PEOPLE.
Also, think what THIS WOULD MEAN for jedi diverisification... Jedi Knights would not have to worry about permaovert PvP. Light side knights could focus on healing powers and not have to worry about constant armed conflict....while darkside could focus on a template for fighting OTHER DARKJEDI...not every PvP FOTM template. More importantly thisunburdens the normal player base from jedi advancement and SHOULD DRASTICALLY LOWER the overrall in game visibility of jedi. If there is no incentive to advancement for PvP with other classes, most jedi will not do it - and certainily will not do it NONSTOP, like now. Please Arjun, this FRS system is setting up a horrible game dynamic.
2. Remove FRS XP for normal overts
WRONG WRONG - If I am stuck PERMAOVERT and can be attacked and ganked from normal overts- I DAMN WELL better get reward for killing them.
3.Increase the penalty for dying to an Overt by a factor of 5
- This will encourage players hunting Jedi to go Overt, and discourage casual "griefing" of starports and other high profile areas by Jedi
AGAIN TERRIBLE IDEA if we get NO BENEFIT from defending ouselves and killing them- you CANT HAVE IT BOTH ways - we were made weaker, permaovert, and with no armour - now you are actually proposing to have MORE OVERTS GRIEF US because we GAIN NOTHING from killing them and we LOSE MORE. What game are you playing Arjun, I mean really....
4. Remove the FRS XP penalty vs. Coverts
- This will discourage players from abusing the group TEF bug and encourage more Overt play
- This will also fix the bug where Coverts with a TEF can grant Jedi FRS XP
5. Change Force Run to be a Force over time based skill....i.e. it uses5-10 force per second...which is not crippling but also would prevent a Jedi with 0 force pool from running indefinately.
NO MORE NERFS - Ive had enough. The only people that have a problem with this ability which WAS ALREADY nerfed and given a higher force costs and the gank rape squads that feel they should be bale to kill. We have no armour and do less damage then a swordsman (at least than a swordsman tdoes to other jedi). WE NEED SOMETHING. Lets look at IMPROVING another power, like force drain or saber throw, to over come server lag - INSTEAD of nerfing one of the FEW DAMN powers we have that is worth 9 months of grinding.
6. Make Force Choke cancel Force Run
- This would prevent Jedi from fleeing any battle at anytime and make the Force Power tree more desirable (yes I know it needs a lot more help than this)
Djferio wrote:
Ranked Jedi are given a special Duel Arena ( Light vs Dark ) only Ranked Jedi can enter the Arena.
Ranked jedi can sign up for the tournament that is hold a couple times a day, see it as football i think you all know how football works, Teams duel eachother and only 1 will win the final and will win a nice amount of FRS and possibly a reward for winning the tournament?
Losers are granted no experience and the winners receive a good amount of FRS experience.
Padawans will appear as red dots to ranked jedionly and visa versano matter what side the ranked jedi is or the padawan.
Ranked jedi will receive a nice amount of FRS xp for killing padawans, if a padawan kills a ranked jedi he receives a good amount Jedi Experience and the ranked jedi will lose a huge amount of FRS XPora rank. ( possibly enters debt system if ranked jedi has no FRS xp or rank )
If ranked jedi B Killed Padawan A his TEF will drop and Ranked jedi B cannot attack padawan A for several hours.
Overts will still give FRS experience when killed.
Teffed persons will also give FRS experience but not as much as overts.
In the wild/cities...
If a ranked jedi spots another ranked jedi (light vs dark) they attack eachother but won't earn any xp if they kill eachotherthey have to setup a duel to earn experience.
For example Jedi A sees Jedi B and he runs to him and type /jediduel.
If jedi B declines the duel he loses a good amount of FRS XP.
If jedi B accepts the duel they can fight eachother 15 seconds after the duel is accepted.
No one else can join this duel to prevent friends helpingany of the jedi.
When the duel is over neither of the jedi can duel eachother for serveral hours.
ArjunThakur wrote:
5. Change Force Run to be a Force over time based skill....i.e. it uses5-10 force per second...which is not crippling but also would prevent a Jedi with 0 force pool from running indefinately.
6. Make Force Choke cancel Force Run
- REMOVE overt status on both jedi (so other faction overts cant effect the outcome)
- Only work if they are solo ungrouped (to avoid gtef)
- Disallow forcerun
Each jedi death should give in the range of 3000-5000 xp (vs the 50 or so you get from normal overts) to encourage jedi vs jedi combat instead of overt hunting.
If you ignore too many jedi duels by rejecting or simply not accepting, you are demoted a rank (somewhat like that dark jedi duels).
If you die from the duel, the other person gets frs xp, but you dont lose any.
If you accept the duel, and end it before its over (to avoid a db), you lose the duel and the other jedi gets his xp. Additionally, you lose a significant amount of xp for ending it prematurely.
There are balance issues here, since obviously a council member would completely destroy a rank 1, so perhaps handicaps can be implemented? I'm not really sure, but its a start I guess 
Message Edited by Chianti on 07-09-2004 06:32 PM
ArjunThakur wrote:
5. Change Force Run to be a Force over time based skill....i.e. it uses5-10 force per second...which is not crippling but also would prevent a Jedi with 0 force pool from running indefinately.
6. Make Force Choke cancel Force Run
- This would prevent Jedi from fleeing any battle at anytime and make the Force Power tree more desirable (yes I know it needs a lot more help than this)
I thought the other suggestions sounded fine...though it will be tough for either side to build up FRXP if it all must come from Jedi combat...given that we lose XP is we lose the fight. There is a possibility thatthe entire FRS will boil down to "who brought themost Jedito the fight".
Still, that may be better than endless ganking overts.
On 5 though, Force Run 3 is ALREADY a skill which drains force over time...specifically my macro drains about 500 Force exactly every 2 minutes. What you must be proposing here is that it drain enough Force per use to outstrip our regeneration...so that eventually we will wear our force bar down to zero. I have no problem with that in concept, so long as it can still be used for a fairly long while. A short run from battle, even at FR3 speeds will still be no where near enough to save your life in a fight. As it stands now, FR3 only saves you because you can run (a) in water, a house, etc. or (b) until your opponent gets bored with chasing you and gives up.
If I can only make it 3000 meters, then I will be killed (especially if I'm losing Force faster than I can regen it). The net effect of increasing the Force Cost will likely be to make Enhancers run earlier than they currently do.
The real prblem with force run is the "Target is out of range" message. Even when the target is 10 meters away. That's just caused by server lag. I'd suggest the fix should be the same one they gave to melee classes...increased attack ranges. In order to make up for server lag and your screen not accurately showing you the position/distance of your target, the range of any attack used against an FR3 macroingJedi should be doubled (out to 64 m). I have no idea how hard that would be to code though.
On 6. I do not have a problem with having Force Choke having some chance to cancel Force Run 3, so long as it's not automatic. Force Defense should help prevent FR3 from breaking (which would be a good reason for an Enhancer to devote some skill points to Defense...). Even with No Force Defense, I'd like to think there'd be some chance for the Force Enhancer's run to work as they are both master-level-powers. Perhaps the ranking mods could also influence the base chance of the run being broken, so the higher the choker's Power mod, the more likely it's use will break the run.
Message Edited by Jeren_Sehn on 07-09-2004 06:37 PM
i dont get it too one thing that should be changed and everyone woul dbe satisfied light Jedis Dark Jedis and everyone who actually wants to play in the GCW but cant since we are areforced to kill everyone on sight to advance.
Jwmc4 wrote:
Why not give light jedi a way to get exp other than killing folks and make it more desireable then killing overts overts could still give exp but it would be nominal???
And dark knights duel each other for exp ??\
this solves all problems!!!!!!????????
Highly supporting and pretty much forcing jedi's to hunt overts is/and will continue to be, a rather large reason why a lot of people will NOT go overt.. (I'm basing this on feedback from the GCW forum, and yes there are a LOT of problems with the GCW and PvP in this game, but adding to the problem is NOT helpful, and excuses why "other things are also bad", does not justify adding one more "bad thing")
As a result from getting rid of overt FRS xp, I believe that FRS should increase by 5 times, as suggested... and both of these need to go in for it to work...
That being said, the jedi trees are NOT balanced right now, and need to be fixed quite badly if overts FRS xp is taken out of the game, because jedi's will have to fight each other to gain xp(ie, forcerun3 is a game-breaking move, since "in theory", it's a necessary move to have, those who don't have it, will get ganked by a team of overts and those who don't have it, will always have their opponents(who do have it) run away on them)
(personally I think "imperial/dark jedi" and "rebel/light jedi" was a very very stupid thing... it should be a COMPLETELY SEPERATE WAR... with dark jedi's and light jedi's... because since jedi's are 24/7 overt, light jedi vs. dark jedi will NEVER happen... it will be light jedi(and his team of whatever) vs. dark jedi(and his team of whatever) )
(after reading a lot of posts I see why jedi's want xp for killing overts... it's because they are forced to be overt.... there is a HUGE problem here... overts don't want to BE overt, if they are just going to be hunted like dogs for xp.... jedi's don't WANT to be overt, if they get nothing for defending themselves.... now you have even MORE reason to get the jedi's AWAY from the GCW...)
Message Edited by cheserna on 07-09-2004 03:42 PM