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Thread: Concerning the Pro's of Forced PvP Mastership......
Slarus wrote:Get your facts straight, in a pvp area the rules for that area states that you can shoot other players of the opposate faction, shooting of another player is not griefing. Shooting other players is part of the rules of the pvp area. Now befor you go to these areas you are to get a message stating the area is pvp, Now since vic and you are saying your not getting this message, then it must be a bug because i got the message all the time in beta. i had to agree that the area i was going to was pvp and that when i said yes, and depending on the area i had to pay a fee, and off i went.
Now if this message is not showing up then yes this could be a possible griefing problem and should be fixed right away. But it still dont give it the right to have the mission moved.
but as for The mission is not "made" for others to shoot at you, get your facts straight., i find it funny you say this. Lets look at what would happen in a pve area if you get the mission based on your facts.
You go to fly your final mission and your find your target you go back and forth doing your best, then out of nowere a very tuff enemy from off to the side comes in that wasnt a part of your mission starts to attack and kills you. after all this you still get killed and all that work is ruined.
But from this the npc was just doing what it was programed to do in the area it was in. you cant reason with a npc, and the npc only has one thing on its mind and its just to kill you. Kinda shoots holes in your facts that the mission is not made for others to shoot at you. The ai of the ship was just acting like any enemy you will find in a pvp zone, and just like in the ground game. you see no matter where the mission is, there is going to be something outside the mission itself that will ruin the mission if you get killed, ether by npc or another player. So i say there is no reason to move the mission.
But from all this, i know what non pvp players expect to find in a pvp zone or else they would not be here complaining. But i will say that playing the mission in a pvp area is no problem and can be done. You will still have to fight the enemy just like in pve you can still die like in pve and the enemy can die like in pve. You just have to do it.
Once again for the thickheaded, this game is marketed, the manual states and there was nothing official posted that changed this. Star Wars Galaxies is PvP by consent. That means you give permission to enguage in PvP. They have slowly been changing the consentual PvP, to more conditional and out right forced. The pure PvP MMO sucks, it got bad reviews and it is dying, so my only guess is SWG is dying due to the slowl change to PvP only. I hear the next expansion expands the GCW, wonder if that is were grief...PvPers such as yourself will get your all PvP game. And before you invoke ESRB, please note that is intend to say that some content may change, it doesn't apply to PvP states.
If you look at UO the split of the lands to pvp and non pvp slaughtered the player base. They lost a lot of people, players, due to changing from a pvp only based game to a half and half scenario. Not good.
Just because you have to go to Kessen to complete the Skill does not mean that you will be ganked by droves and droves of master pilots. They have better things to do with their time rather than wait for a 1hit kill. Yup. You read it. One hit it all it takes. No 75% reduction in damage here. Wheres the fun in that. How can anybody get any fun out of 1hit killing individuals? There isn't/ They have other things to do like decorate their MPS's, hunt down a shipwright willing to sell a firespray - Do you actually know how these chasis's are made? Hunting down JTL owners in the hope for a crew =b or just generally standing round starports with their titles up feeling smug. Why? Cos its all a big puff of smoke about evil vindictive individuals who insist on ruining others' gameplay. Reading this thread is like reading about the boogie man. =)
Deep Space which requires master ace pilot, has all the best loot, is the most impressive and has the best challenges in game by far, and is a PvP area too. THATS where you need to worry about griefers if there are any.
I just feel that everyones panicking and crying wolf to something which, in all honesty, could possibly not exist.
Keep it as it is.
If your scared that someone may be after you ask for a couple of friends to come and help you in Kessen. Your not going to be bullied then.
R'ob Bail'ie
Master Rifleman/Swordsman
IB - Farstar
WyrrdWomble
Master Swordsman/Carbineeer
IB - Infinity
Vicotnik wrote:
Naquiel wrote:
Ok, first off: Jedi is not aimed to the broad public it's aimed towards a smaller set of people, therefore it can follow "different" rules. Pilot is the core of JTL, and is thusly aimed towards the mainstream SWG subscriber. Second: Here you are with your notion that things cannot be though unless it contains PVP. Where did ANYONE state that these missions should be easy?
The why do some of my guild mates an alot of ppl i know in the game dont have JTL yet, and why do some some of them think they wont get it. And what makes you think JTL is not following the same ruleset, your not a dev, you have no clue, so quit thinking you know everything. And if jedi is not aimed for everyone, then why is it available for everyone to grind one out, are you saying that jedi was made spacificly for the very special few that are currently grinding out a jedi? Yes pilot is the core of JTL, but JTL is only a part of the SWG core And i didNOT say that things are useless if it didnt contain pvp. im just saying there is no difference if the mission is placed in a pvp area, SO GET YOUR INFO STRAIGHT.
DWB is attainable by everyone, you just have to work hard to get through it. I would say that if the devs had to place the mission in a pve area the are will be a DWB in space. Maybe thats why they plased the mission in a pvp area to give ppl a chance?
Does the term "grasping for/at straws" mean anything to you? Why would it have to be a DWB in space? And no, the DWB is not attainable by everyone. Not everyone have the funds and the time it takes to commit to a successful DWB run.
Then tell us here how the devs would make the mission in a pve setting and in a way where it would not be interupted by many other ppl in the pve areas, you dont know and i dont know, but from looking at what the devs have done in the past we should have an idea of what they would do, but you dont even grasp that concept, and now you are grasping for straws.
Well lets see, ppl run in shooting, so do npc's. Some ppl keep running around wile shooting, wait the same as npc's. PPl will come up and use specials on you, but then agin so do npc's, the fact is the npc ai in the game is really not that different than players. Npc's will attack you if your an enemy, they will run from you when there about to die, just like a regular player.Npc'smay be dumb, but they act alot like a regular player.
So you are arguing here that either:
A) Players lack intelligence and can only act according to a couple of set paramenters OR
No im saying that the devs that program the AI has done a good job of making the npc's really close to what other players do, and i wouldnt be surprised if they got there ideas from watching players from the game to enhance the npc AI. But you cant grasp this concept ether can you.
B) SOE has actually managed to create a true AI that acts like actual players.
Its the best ai i have seen in a wile, way better than fron EQ, AO, AC, AC2, DAOC, and more.
Laughable, there is a huge difference between players and NPC's. Name one NPC that can do this for example:
1) Call on their guild for backup.
lets see some npc's are scouts and if there attacked they will run and get his friends, or did you miss this in the game, it has been in the game for awile now. and dont say its not the real thing because if it was, because if you where attacked and needed help you would run tward your friends because its faster and then they would run in and if you call for help. plus if you where alone or a small group and are hit by a strong group and did have the time to call a guild for help, most likely you would be dead befor mors guild mates would be there to the resque.
2) Can actually try and predict what you are going to do.
Give the devs time and they will get it right, this is the one area that is lacking, but then there always changing things all the time.
3) Has the uncanny ability to get the most of their equipment through buffs, high end loot, power-ups and the like. (Moronic values on the NPC HAM and resists are for this purpose obviously not counted)
DWB, the corvette, the geno caves, have some good npc that could equiel a buffed person with high ham to cover for the lack of armor and buffs and what about nightsisters, they have a mass load of resist, but then again most of these npc's you cant handle to well alone.
That's completely unrelated to unpredictability. The NPCs are acting according to a set number of parameters with a few variants. A NPC can NEVER be as unpredictable as a player. And furthermore, if the "A.I." in JTL resembles the AI we had during beta the day before the servers went down, then it's just about the most predictable AI ever.
The how does a group of players react when there attacked, do they all just stad there or do they run up to a target or do some of them stay back and shoot.Are you even playing the same game, you really have no clue of what happens in combat do you. And now i know you do not pvp at all since you cant make out that pvp and pve combat are the same.
No grudge eh, i have had npc ships on me i could not shake and the only way to get away was to hyperspace. But then again i was in the wrong sector of space and the ships that where on me where way to tuff.
That's exactly what I am saying. NPC ships don't follow the same rules as the player ships, they will ALWAYS be better. Not quite logical, and it's just because SOE couldn't manage to create an acceptable AI. All they did was to pretty much boost up the NPC ships to obscene levels.
I think they have done a good job with the AI and i hope it gets better with time, but you still dont see it and you didnt read my post, go back and read it again. Now if i had a stronger ship then i might have stood a better chance of wining instead of running. Or got some friends to help protect me.
Why would they "just do the mission and move on"? Why do you feel it so prudent that these people are not worthy of the title?
Im not saying there not worthy of the title, im just saying that they should just get the mission done and they wont have to worry about going to the pvp area again, plain and simple, but i guess you still havent figured this out.
Prove it. I've already shown you the picture I took just a day or two before the beta ended. In this picture, there was no system message or any other information on the area being a PVP area. If you are going to state something as a fact, back it up, please. Especially since there is contradicting evidence.
Well when i get to 4444 pilot in a day or so, or better yet i will let a friend do it for me since he is alread at 4444 to take a pic, whould that be ok for you?
No, had it been a true choice, people would have had to know this before they started their pilot profession. (Yes, even before they bought JTL)
Then if its was not there then there is a bug, because i got the message all the time when i went to kesel and to deep space.
What drug are you on? I want those delusions too!
A griefer in a online game is someone who (by purpose) causes grief and ruins the game experience of someone else over and over. The fact that there are PVP zones with set rules means nothing. If someone goes into this zone with the purpose of ruining someones mission, then they are very well worthy of the title griefer. Again, before you make up more lies and twist my words: NOT ONCE DID I STATE THAT EVERYONE IN A PVP AREA WILL DO THIS. But the option is there, that not even you can deny.
Read what you posted again especialy the last part 'over and over'. When apvp player is playing in a pvp area they dont stop to see who there shooting at, there only attacking an enemy, they dont know there strong or week, they dont know if there a non pvp player, all they know that there is an enemy there that they have to destroy. But if the pvp player knew who the person was and spacificly killed the same person over and over then it would be griefing, do you under stand that now. And how does a pvp player know that an enemy is there to do a mission, i would like to have there superhuman powers to tell.
No, but you give people too much credit. Just because you're a good PVE player, it does not mean that you're automatically a good PVP player. The Jedi system pretty much proved this. They would be alert until they get into a fight with NPC's. They can't very well be very alert at that point.
I give ppl the credit they deserve, because i know they can do it, but you can keep saying they cant. So who is saying ppl are inferior?
First of all: You could almost get a monkey to play their way to 4-4-4-4 (Well, they wouldn't be able to complete the missions, but that's another story) the NPC ship "AI" is just that predictable. And no, people won't be "smart enough" to find out information about the mission and the area they are going to. They haven't had any reason to do that up until the master missions, so why should they do that now? Second: How, exactly, would a PVE player go about to be prepaired for a PVP area when they have no experience of that?
When was the frirs time you went to the geno caves, did you know anything about the cave befor you got there. I would hope so. And how about the first time you went to the Warren, did you get lost or did you get information to help you get through it. Well sometimes it takes ppl about one death in an area befor they stop and see if there is info on the area there at to hopefully get through it. And as for your second question, Its not hard to ask someone that has been there.
Are you doing a "Kerry" on me now? Changing your arguments and viewpoints in the middle of a thread? Or are you suddenly accepting that I never once did call EVERYONE griefers? Of course the people looking for easy kills could be counted as griefers. True PVPers would prefer the challenge. People looking for easy kills are just in it for the victory, and in effect to cause misery to other people.
Ok, i want your super human powers that letme see what players a non pvp, and how strang they are and if there entering the pvp zone for a mission, then i could be a god in pvp land, But i know this is imposible since you really not that smart to figur out that No one has the ability to see how straog a players is untill they acctuly fight, and you well know no one can tell if a person is in a pvp area to run a mission, you yo well know that othere players dont know who is a pvp or non pvp player.
Uh, anyone fighting the Corvette and the gunboats are easy targets. In fact, anyone fighting NPCs in Kessel are fairly easy targets. I don't think you can see what I am saying, so here it is again:
If these missions were moved, who would be pissed off/upset/crying/whatever? No one except the people who wanted no challenge in their PVP kills. Got that through your skull yet?
But you still dont know, can you get the concept that you will not know, you still dont have a clue, you still think you know how ppl will react when you really dont know.
The only time a person is a target is when they make themselves one. If you deside to go to the pvp area to do the mission, what would you do to perpare? one would to make sure you had a good ship, well stocked and ready for action, and the same for the rest of the group. Two would to plan out what you and your group is going to do. Three would to practice befor going in and try to learn some piloting tricks that will surprise the enemy. and Four, go during a time when you know its mostly clear of the enemy.
And in what reality do gamers do this? If you're trying out a new gaming experience (or maybe not even knowing that you are), are you going to prepare and study up on the subject? Not many people will do this. And again, you are slightly off topic here. You are trying to make up some strange excuse that because they can prepare for it, this mission is justified. It's not in any single way justified by this.
I know many gamers that read up on as much as they can befor going in a game, i have many guild mates that have never done the corvette befor but they have had nots on what to do when to get there. Again give ppl more credit where credit is due. PPl are smart and will find the info they need and they can get through a pvp area just to do a mission.
But THEY ARE total noobs. Someone testing something out for the first time ever is a noob by default. There is no way around this. Someone who has never tried PVP before will be very much a noob compared to real PVPers.
Maybe, but from that first experiance they would alread have the experiance from outside of the new area to help them get through. you should stop belittleing ppl by saying there not good enough. PPl will do fine, ppl learn fast and will keep going.
You are STILL not getting this, are you? Someone who hasn't done any PVPing IS going in as a total noob in the area. Especially since most of them won't even know that Kessel is THE hotspot for PVP.
Again you really need to give more credit to some ppl. Ppl are smart and will learn what they need.
And you give people too much credit, or have you forgotten how it was to be a noob? I see countless threads in this forum, and hear countless things in game that proves that people are complete noobs when they try something out. How many people have you heard shouting for training in pilot skills, for example. People don't learn what they need, it's not in their nature.
You know, when ppl ask questions, especialy if there noobs, this is a good way to learn what is around them so they can understand what to expect. And let me guess, are you the kind of guy that never asks for directions when your lost?
But what you dont understand is if it can be done in pve it can be done in a pvp area to.
I understand that, and that is very much what I am arguing against. It can be done in a PVP area too, but not as well as in a PVE area. In the PVP area you WILL end up offending some people, that will NEVER happen in a PVE area.
Oh i think some ppl offend ppl in the pve areas quite well, for example, befor the devs fixed space missions there was a problem of kill stealing and still some ppl are annoying and offending ppl by them just shooting at someons ship just to drive the other person crazy, but for a pvp area, being offended only comes from not knowing the rules of the area, once ppl understand they wont have a problem with it.
We obviously know what you like too, seems thatthrough your unhealthy fixation with the word "griefer" and the fact that you think that everyone in the PVP areas will be upset if these missions are moved... You must be one yourself. Feels funny when people place words in your mouth, doesn't it?
Now your putting more words in my mouth.
Well, duh. I stated that quite blatantly.
1. You dont even know what the devs are giong to do and thats where i said it MIGHT come up.
I know that they won't be dumb enough to add the same thing to the ground game.
I guess we will wait and see wont we.
2. You dont know if they will loose subscribers.
Everything they do will make them loose subscribers, hell I even know peoplewho havethreatened to quit because the "combat rebalance" will make them loose their uberness.But if you make changes to a PVP optional game that goes against this, you WILL loose subscribers at an accelerated rate.
Accelerated rate?, I dont think so.
3. you dont know if having the mission in a pvp area will fail.
Yes I do, since I know that they won't work in the end. But since we have already settled that you lack the ability to think ahead, here is a brief explanation: For every day that goes by since the realease of JTL, more and more people will become masters. The more masters there are, the harder the master missions will be. Now think ahead one year (Yeah, I know you lack that ability, but humour me), think about the numbers of PVPing masters there will be now. Done? Yes, now consider how absolutely frustrating, gamebreaking and hard the missions will be. No, I know not all masters will PVP, but the numbers ofPVPing masters will increase to the point where there is no more room for masters.
Well, having missions in a pvp area in DAOC worked just fine, Also in alot of other online games i have played. What makes you so sure that it will totaly fail? And as you state above(the bold text), ppl that do get there can find others that will be going into the pvp area to do there mission, and they can help each other, and if alot of ppl are doing it this fast then there is going to be no problem finding said help. And as for humoring you, i thought i did fine a few times, or was that fake laughs and chuckles you posted in past posts.
4. I dont have a fixation of the word griefer, but you sure have a way of not saying it in long winder statments, and i never said everypvp player is a griefer, i said that you think that every player is a griefer and i was proving you wrong., and
You were proving me wrong? All you did was to twist my words into your own fabricated lies and means.
5. i never said i liked pvp, i pvp on rare occasions, and know how pvp works.
Do you? You seem fairly unable to decide if players are different from NPCs or not. You're pretty much all over the place here...
Did i ever tell you how much i have pvp'ed in the past, No, i dont think i said anything on how much pvp i have done, All i said is i pvp on rare occasions. Get your facts straight.
But you come along and say that the ppl playing on kesel will be sad that if the missions are moved to a pve area they would not have easy targets,
No, that's not what I said, and you know it. Not once did I equal the people playing in Kessel to the people in that statement. The statement was, and I quote: "The second freakin' reason: It absolutely wouldn't offend ANYONE if it didn't include PVP. Move the mission to Dathomir, and everyone would be happy. The only people who would NOT be happy by this would be people actually looking forward to seeing easy targets in Kessel". Or are you going to read things that are not there again?
But thats the question, who are you talking about that will miss easy targets in kesel? would it be griefers, would it be just pvp players themselves, what. Just admit you where talking about griefers.
No, your wrong because you dont know, The whole time i have been here i been trying to tell you that you really dont know what will happen, you have it dead set in you mind that ppl will not enter a pvp area, because of the fear that they might get greifed, that is plain and simple.
Now you are fabricating stuff again. Not once have I stated that people won't enter a PVP are because of fear. In fact, I spent many hours arguing against the "fear issue" with Cuality in this thread (or a similar one, I forget). And yes, I know just about what will happen. These missions will not work in the end due to several reasons, one being human nature. Nothing good can come out of these missions, so they will be changed sooner or later. The question is just how long it will take, it took SOE long enough to realize that the hologrinding was too destructive for the game.
then why do you want the missions moved then, there has to be a purpose, the missions being in a pvp area alone is not justifcation to have them moved, So what is the main reason to have it move, and befor you say that you said it, just humor me and repost it here.
Toped with the fact that ppl can survive a pvp area to get a master title.
That's going to be very hard for people who get JTL several months from now. The more PVPers who play JTL, the harder it will be to master the profession. If you feel like testing this statement: Master one pilot now, and try again in 6 months.
I dont think so, later down the road, there will be lots of master pilots that would be willing to help, there is alot of time in 6 months to get lots of master pilots.
Is it so hard for you that ppl can try, is it hard to comprehend that ppl can learn to get something done in an area beyond the normal area they play in. Dont close some of those ppl off. Give them help, let them know they can do the mission with no problem.
Are you daft? I'm trying to get them help. I'm trying to help them by moving the missions to a PVE zone. And you have yet been able to state why you are so adamant that this is wrong.
No you just trying to have a mission moved that really dont need to be.
No, people will not learn to like it. People will keep arguing against it until it is altered.
Wow, i like this statment from you since it is true, some ppl will not learn to like it and ppl will keep arguing till its altered, kinda sounds like you. I will defenatly remember this for a long time.
Of course it sounds like me, I said it. (Duh)
I will remember your failed attempts at putting words in my mouth with fondness for a long time, by the way.
Where as a DWB in space will send wave apon wave of almost invincable ship that will keep you from a master title.
But why? Why would a PVE mission have to be so much harder than a PVP encounter? You are just not making any sense now.
Oh, do you think the devs would make it easy for everyone to get the master title if they put the mission in a pve area, I dont think so, they would mak it as difficult or slightly more than what you would experiance in the pvp area, because if was anything less then it would of been in a pve area.
So what do we do to fix this, well one would to really inform the non pvp players the mission is in a pvp zone, and let them make the choice to go in or not.andanotherway is to just move the mission out of the area completely.
Yes, and that move is what needs to be done to cause as little problems as possible.
But wait there might be an alternative the devs might have put in the game to not go to the pvp area, have you noticed the 7.5 million exp a person has to learn to get a master title. Maybe that 7.5 mill is yout ticket to mastery with out doing the final mission, did you ever think of that (well maybe since you where disscusing it in another thread and it does sone like it is a good alternative). Since we dont know yet, but right not it looks like the final mission in a pvp area could be a fast mission to mastery wile some ppl can just grind 7.5 mill exp to get their master title. I hope its true because if it is then this debate will be over.
Since when does the radar show:
A) The heading of a target?
Ah, you dont know, the top half of the radar shows you whats in front of you, the bottom half shows whats in back of you. A beta tester like yourself didnt find this out, i learned it on day one. If the dot gets bigger is getting closer.
Considering that the radar was not resizable for the later part of the beta, and the fact that I have a high resolution, nope. Not once did I see the dots grow in size. I know EXACTLY how the Wing Commander radar works, and there is no possible way of knowing the heading of the dots while at the same time moving around and turning yourself.
Then its your problem, my radar works fine, and if you /bug the radar not being able to resize, then maybe the devs will fix it and it will be a better tool for you to use.
B) The actual distance to the target?
The smaller the red square the father away it is, the bigger the closer it is. Go check it out it helps alot on tracking hits and your target. You current target will have a little blue box around it. and mission targets have yellow boxes.
Players are neither your current target nor mission targets while doing these missions. What you just said is irrelevant.
No, an enemy is an enemy, any red dot on the radar is something to keep tabs on, and they dont need to be spacifily highlighted , also its good to keep tabs on the other dots on the radar. And what i did say is relivent, since the radar will show you exactly where your target is and where your mission targets are. Here you are just arguing because i just dised you so bad that you have to say that what i said is irrevelent. When you finaly get JTL loaded up, go have fun with the radar and see how helpful it is.
I track them all the time with the radar, my radar is my life, it tells me where everyone is and whats attacking me(the red dots flash when they are firing at you).
Wrong, the red dots flash when they hit you. Someone can be firing at you and miss for several minutes, the dots would not flash.
Thanks for the clarification, i forgot it was when they hit you the dots flash, but it still lets you know so you can react.
for a good way to keep on your targets trail, the radar is the best way to keep tab and what direction they are headed and sometimes you can anticipate there moves.It dont take a super human to work a radar.
It takes a super human to work the radar to spot incomming players while trying to dodge two-three gunboats, a couple of TIE oppressors and aggressors while at the same time trying to get a lock on the Corvette.
I see you really cant multi task, maybe you need some more practice. The radar is so easy to use, it will help you so much.
And how can you be stating that there is no difference between PVP and PVE? Why are you even arguing? Seems to me like you wouldn't care if the mission was moved or not.
I dont, im just saying that the mission in a pvp areais not a big deal and can be done.
Yes it can be done, I'm not arguing that fact. It can be done much smoother in a PVE area, and that's a bigger fact.
But you dont know. For all we know they did what they did to not make it smoother.
So basically, you think that the developers have a God given right to basically run us overwith any changes they want? Don't make me laugh again. The developers can't make changes to the game that the majority won't like, since they will loose business on that.
Yes, they have every right because its there game, they changed jedi because they didnt like what they saw and coincidently many ppl agreed.
Didn't you just state that you had 15+ years of experiencein retail? 15 years and you have never once heard the expression: "The customer is always right"?
Have you ever read the expression of "The customer is always right as long as they follow the rules and guidlines of the company there dealing with. Rules and guidlines will be furnish upon request. Itsis responsability ofcustomer to follow said rules and guidlines. If failiur to follow said rules and guidlines will forfit any warrenties and claims." Welcome to 21st century.
Well if you die where you where at, that would fail the mission also, so lets think here. Hyperspace to save your ship from massive damage, or die and pay for repair, ether way you lose your mission, So your point is?
SpaceCrazy wrote:
Naquiel wrote:
Oh and for the ppl getting left behind to defend them selves, i would like to pint out the one thing that has helped get ppl away from danger, and that is the nifty hyperdrive option. When things look to hot, just jump out. then later you can try again.
Sure, hyperspace out to keep from being killed, your mission fails and you have to start all over again. I wouldn't think people will have time to hyperspace out before getting killed. If you are getting attacked by both NPC's and players, it's much more likely that you'll get blown up before the hyperdrive kicks in.
There is little to no reason whatsoever to have a PVE mission in PVP zones. There are many many reasons to move it away from PVP.
Naquiel wrote:Well if you die where you where at, that would fail the mission also, so lets think here. Hyperspace to save your ship from massive damage, or die and pay for repair, ether way you lose your mission, So your point is?
SpaceCrazy wrote:
Naquiel wrote:
Oh and for the ppl getting left behind to defend them selves, i would like to pint out the one thing that has helped get ppl away from danger, and that is the nifty hyperdrive option. When things look to hot, just jump out. then later you can try again.
Sure, hyperspace out to keep from being killed, your mission fails and you have to start all over again. I wouldn't think people will have time to hyperspace out before getting killed. If you are getting attacked by both NPC's and players, it's much more likely that you'll get blown up before the hyperdrive kicks in.
There is little to no reason whatsoever to have a PVE mission in PVP zones. There are many many reasons to move it away from PVP.
You're the one who brought it up. The point is that either way, you have to start the mission over again.
SpaceCrazy wrote:
Naquiel wrote:
Well if you die where you where at, that would fail the mission also, so lets think here. Hyperspace to save your ship from massive damage, or die and pay for repair, ether way you lose your mission, So your point is?
SpaceCrazy wrote:
Naquiel wrote:
Oh and for the ppl getting left behind to defend them selves, i would like to pint out the one thing that has helped get ppl away from danger, and that is the nifty hyperdrive option. When things look to hot, just jump out. then later you can try again.
Sure, hyperspace out to keep from being killed, your mission fails and you have to start all over again. I wouldn't think people will have time to hyperspace out before getting killed. If you are getting attacked by both NPC's and players, it's much more likely that you'll get blown up before the hyperdrive kicks in.
There is little to no reason whatsoever to have a PVE mission in PVP zones. There are many many reasons to move it away from PVP.
You're the one who brought it up. The point is that either way, you have to start the mission over again.
Ya, but this also can happen in both the pve and pvp areas.
Message Edited by Naquiel on 11-01-2004 11:16 AM
Edited for content
Vicotnik wrote:
Naquiel wrote:
Ok let me clarify, if you play a game and you want to win, Do you do what ever you can to finish the game? Here in this game, many ppl have many goals they want done befor they think the game is finished. For many, jedi is there goal, formany it is becoming a master pilot, forsome even just being a master entertainer is good enough. the point is many ppl will do what they need to do to reach a goal, and the only thing stoping them is theirself.
And that is exactly why the goal of something that is aimed towards everyone should very well be avaliable to everyone. But ofcourse, since you lack the ability of seeing things from different points of views. You'll disagree with this.
Then why dont the devs just give us jedi instead of making it so tuff that everyone cant get a jedi, but wait everyone can if they work hard to do it. This dont mean that everyone wants one, but i do know that if the devs changed it that jedi didnt have to pvp, a lot more ppl would be there grinding away. Well the same thing can go for master pilot.
How about this, why not make it like another DWB but put it in space. I wonder how many ppl will really complain about it. I can think many more would hate it.
The DWB is not attainable by everyone. By doing that, you would ensure that becomming a pilot would just be something for powergamers, and that's just trading one evil for another lesser one.
DWB is attainable by everyone, you just have to work hard to get through it. I would say that if the devs had to place the mission in a pve area the are will be a DWB in space. Maybe thats why they plased the mission in a pvp area to give ppl a chance?
How? Since you have played pvp, tell me what makes it different.
First of all, there is the entire issue of intelligence: NPCs are dumb, players are at the very least nominally intelligent. (though, some don't show it very well)
Well lets see, ppl run in shooting, so do npc's. Some ppl keep running around wile shooting, wait the same as npc's. PPl will come up and use specials on you, but then agin so do npc's, the fact is the npc ai in the game is really not that different than players. Npc's will attack you if your an enemy, they will run from you when there about to die, just like a regular player.Npc'smay be dumb, but they act alot like a regular player.
Second, NPCs lacks unpredictability, players do not.
I dont think so, i have seen groups of npc's that would have 2 shooting from the back ground, 2 melee attacking up close and swithch off to running away to dropping the gun and attacking with a melee weapon. They sure act like alot of ppl i know when fighting. And up in space, npc ships do chase you like a regular player can, they are good to if your not watching there friends.
Third, Players and NPCs quite differ in ship characteristics, not that this is how it should be, but it is the way the developers went.
Fourth, NPCs can't harbour any permanent grudges against you. If you get one on your tail, you can just shake them off. A player can hound you until the game is shut down. NPCs lack emotions, players do not.
No grudge eh, i have had npc ships on me i could not shake and the only way to get away was to hyperspace. But then again i was in the wrong sector of space and the ships that where on me where way to tuff.
Differences enough for you? Or are you actually going to state that they are similar in these respects?
There still simular, just do this for me. Go to a pvp battle like a base raid, dont join in or anything, just watch the whole event. watch what ppl do. Then after that go someplace like the DWB and watch a group try to go down in the base. Then tell me what you have seen.
You dont know this. How do you know that its not challenging being in a pvp area?
How is it with your reading comprehension? That's not what I am saying at all. Putting the missions in a PVP area may very well be challenging, but this is the issue and read it carefully: PVP is not the only way of creating challenges. This ties in with the fact that PVP != Challenge. Challenge != PVP. And for that matter: PVE != Challenge. Challenge != PVE.
Since PVP is not the only way of creating challenge, logic states that you should not use PVP to create challenge for something that is supposedly aimed for everyone.
Then let the devs make a DWB in space for us to do the final mission in then, that will be challenging enough. You say that it can be challenging in a pve area, then let it be a DWB in space. But befor you say that ppl wont do it because it will be to tuff, stop and think what the devs are going to do. The devs didnt want it to be easy for you to get the master title, so they would make a tuff area to match a pvp area, and that would be a DWB in space. Now your going to have ppl again saying the title is unattanible. So i say again, just do the mission and get it over with and then you wont have to worry about it again.
Im not tiptoing anything, the devs made jediforced pvp. Wile here with JTL a person has a choice to pvp or not.
Give that up, will you? Jedi is but a splinter of SWG. Pilot is the core of JTL. What you are saying here is that people who dislike PVP should not even get JTL.
No JTL is just a new addition to the ground game, yes pilot is the core of JTL, but its a smal part of the main game itself just like jedi. And no im not saying ppl shouldnt get JTL if they dont like pvp, im just saying that if they dont want to finish a mission in a pvp area its there choice and they can play with the ships thay have. But then again they could just do the mission and move on.
If you chose to do the pvp to just get the master title, then it will be done, you wount have to go back at all, but if you chose not to go, its your choice to. You see ppl are not forced.
There is no choice, but keep telling yourself that it is. Sheesh.
Ok think hard and answer this question. if you come up to a pvp zone and the system tells you that the area is a pvp zone, would you agree to go in? If you said yes, you made a choice to go in. If you said no, that was also your choice not to go in. its a choice plain and simple. All you saying is that ppl dont have a choice witch is a lie, there is nothing there stopping a person from entering the pvp zone but themselves, but then again its there choice that is keeping them out.
Then tell me why you said, "The only people who would NOT be happy by this would be people actually looking forward to seeing easy targets in Kessel." Sounds like your saying that the ppl that would be sad are the griefers.
Well, yes. Are you saying that you are a griefer here? Not once did I state that this applied to EVERYONE in the PVP area, you did. No,what I saidwas that: If you get upset with these missions being moved, you were quite obviously looking forward to easy targets.
One, im not a griefer and to let you know i rarly pvp.2. Now that you just admited that the sentance was basicly you saying that theppl that where possiblygriefing would be sad that they would not have easy targets if the mission was moved out of the pvp area shows you still dont knowwhat the word griefer means in an online game. But wait, a pvp zone does not have griefers if there following the rules of the zone, which is to defeat the enemy. How can it be griefing if there just attacking the enemy in a zone that lets them do it.
So instead of wording the sentence to sound different. why dont you acctuly say what the easy target is and who is doing the targeting.
What, I have to define my sentences into the smallest parts now? What the hell is this? Pre-school?
I know what you where saying and you where saying that the only ppl that would be sad would be the griefers not having something to shoot at, but again you still dont know that the ppl that play in the pvp area are a griefer. So dont sugar coat the subject and just say what you really mean.
Are you completely lacking the ability to comprehend one measly line of text? NOT ONCE DID I STATE THAT ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE PVP AREA ARE GRIEFERS, you did. WHAT I DID STATE WAS THAT THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN BE UPSET ABOUT THIS WERE LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING EASY TARGETS.
Woot i can make big bold text to, ! i did not say that you said all pvp players are griefers, i just said you should just state that you dont want the mission in a pvp zone for thepossibilityof a griefing problem,but you just said that your statment was about griefers and i was posting that you where just sugar coating a sentance to get around naming the word griefer,. So stop skirting around the subject and say it out load that you dont want the mission in a pvp area because of a possible griefing problem, Come on its really simple. Just say it.
Who says the non pvp person coming into the zone wont fight back? If you go to some place you dont know in the game and ether a npc' or a pvp player is shooting at you, what do you do, I would think you would have sence enough to fire back.
If you're a non pvp person, you won't have any chance at fireing back. If you do, that's one crappy PVPer.
Boy you sure dont give ppl much credit do you, I have seen many non pvp players that can solo many very hard npc's in the game, in turn can handle themselves if they where ever attacked in a pvp setting, And a question, dont you think the non pvp person would be on alert since they know there entering a pvp area? I dont know about you but i know ppl are smarter than you think they are.
You keep saing that all non pvp players are easy targets, well if they are then they would have a hard time just getting up to 4444 pilot.
No they wouldn't. PVP is a completely different thing thatn PVE. If you place someone who has only played as a PVE pilot in a PVP area, they will have no experience of PVP and know nothing about what to expect. That is what makes them easy targets during the mission. Of course, you fail to see this, since you can only look at things from your own, ego-centric point of view.
No i dont fail to see this, i do see that you saying ppl are not smart enough t find out info about the mission and the area there going to, I can see you dont think a person is smart enough to learn about the area there going to to help prepair, and the skills the person has learned all the way up to that point will help them get through the mission, or do you think ppl cant do that?
So again, dont sugar coat that non pvp players are easy targets when i know many knoe how to fight back. And the ones that cant know friends that can help.
Oh yes, the "get friends" excuse. It doesn't work to justify these missions, but we've already been through all that a couple of times now.
Try having friends help, you might find it works, if you have any.
No, you didnt say it outright, but you tip toed around it by carefully wording your sentence differently. I know what you said so i just posted it how it should be, unless you want to repost what you really ment tto say. Pleaseexplain what you ment when you said,"The only people who would NOT be happy by this would be people actually looking forward to seeing easy targets in Kessel."
Don't blame your inability to comprehend text on me. I've already said what I meant with that sentence above, but here it is again: "The only people who could ever be upset if these missions were moved from Kessel would logically be people looking forward to seeing easy targets in Kessel." Oh, and of course, you want a five-page disclaimer with each sentence, so here:
1) Not once did I state that this sentence applies to all PVPers, you made that conclusion, not me. Tells a bit more about how you view the subject than how I view it.
2) Not once did I state that this sentence applies to everyone in Kessel, you made that conclusion.
3) Don't put words in other peoples mouths. It doesn't work very well at all.
Then just admit that all your saying that you dont want missions in a pvp area because of a possibility of a griefing problem. Its simple, just do it insted of sugar coating with the statment you made above.
I would think he would say your are playing around with your words trying look like you dont want to say what you really mean.
No, I quite blatantly state what I mean here. You are the one calling people griefers, not me.
No you are sill Calling ppl griefers even if its not useing the word itself. So lets break what was said:
From me: Then tell me why you said, "The only people who would NOT be happy by this would be people actually looking forward to seeing easy targets in Kessel." Sounds like your saying that the ppl that would be sad are the griefers.
And from a statment by you: Well, yes. Are you saying that you are a griefer here? Not once did I state that this applied to EVERYONE in the PVP area, you did. No,what I saidwas that: If you get upset with these missions being moved, you were quite obviously looking forward to easy targets.
Sound like your saying the ppl looking for easy targets are griefers to me. Who else would you think wouldlook for easy targets? Well i would like to say you are a really good player if you can tell what enemy is an easy target. you where just a little crafty with your wording to get out of saying it blatantly but i can see what you are saying.
It might be an odd statment, but im just saying that a player at 4444 is not going to be an easy target, and you should not make them out to be an easy target.
Wrong. Someone completely unexperienced with PVP will be an easy target. Someone completely unexperienced with FPS games will be an easy target.
The only time a person is a target is when they make themselves one. If you deside to go to the pvp area to do the mission, what would you do to perpare? one would to make sure you had a good ship, well stocked and ready for action, and the same for the rest of the group. Two would to plan out what you and your group is going to do. Three would to practice befor going in and try to learn some piloting tricks that will surprise the enemy. and Four, go during a time when you know its mostly clear of the enemy.
And this has exactly what to do with my statement? The fact is clear as crystal: The missions does not actually include any PVP at all. They just make you a target.
No it does exactly go with your statment. You say that non ppl going into a pvp area is only going to be a target, well all im saying that ppl are smart and will not make themselves a target, and by knowing what there getting into and perparing ahead of time, they will try hard not to be a target. Do make it that a person will go into the zone as a total noob, when there not.
You are STILL not getting this, are you? Someone who hasn't done any PVPing IS going in as a total noob in the area. Especially since most of them won't even know that Kessel is THE hotspot for PVP.
Again you really need to give more credit to some ppl. Ppl are smart and will learn what they need.
But it does, justify these missions. Since you have been reading and noticed that i have been saying that you should "group up" and "fight back" really is a big hint to getting the mission done.
Not once does this justify these missions. Not in any single respect does this justify these missions when the same could be achieved without PVP.
But what you dont understand is if it can be done in pve it can be done in a pvp area to.
This does serve a purpose, the devs use past game experiance to help make changes to the game to keep ppl playing. And your still not understanding that the devs want master pilot to be a challenge and doinng something different will make ppl try harder to reach there goal. Place the mission in a pve area will mean everyone and there brother will have the master title and the title will loose its meaning. Agian you still need to look at the whole picture of what is going on.
I need to look at the big picture? Please, it is you who are stuck in the same corner all the damn time. This serves no purpose that cannot be served through PVE means. What you are in effect saying here is that PVE can never be challenging. PVE can never be dynamic. Yeah, right.
I never said that pve would not be challenging, but as you said, npc's are stupid and repeditive and easy to figure out and can be beaten really easy. I say try somrthing different You might learn something.
Wrong, some parts of the game are from the player community, the rest is from the devs and LA. The devs have to place things in the game a certain way frome time to time to keep ppl playing, and it just happens that this mission is one of them.
No, you are quite wrong. PVP is not dev created, it is player created. If you enter the Kessel area at different times of the day, you will notice that the population is very different. This is not something that the developers can control, if they could, the mission would have the same difficulty at all hours.
If pvp was plyer made than we would have super eleet ppl running around the planets with BFG's and there would be no rules and everyone would be a target. This is the devs game and there useing there rules with some stuff we wanted but on a controled lvl. You really need to pay more attantion to game mechanics.
Yes i bring up the broken ground game, but did it ever occure to you that idea ofwhat they put here in JTL might come up in the ground game in the future? You see the devs are always changing things, and some ppl like the changes and some dont, we know you dont like.
No, it won't come up in the ground game. They would loose too many subscribers, and JTL will prove that it won't work in a game that is mainly based around PVE.
We obviously know what you like too, seems thatthrough your unhealthy fixation with the word "griefer" and the fact that you think that everyone in the PVP areas will be upset if these missions are moved... You must be one yourself. Feels funny when people place words in your mouth, doesn't it?
Now your putting more words in my mouth. 1. You dont even know what the devs are giong to do and thats where i said it MIGHT come up. 2. You dont know if they will loose subscribers. 3. you dont know if having the mission in a pvp area will fail. 4. I dont have a fixation of the word griefer, but you sure have a way of not saying it in long winder statments, and i never said everypvp player is a griefer, i said that you think that every player is a griefer and i was proving you wrong., and 5. i never said i liked pvp, i pvp on rare occasions, and know how pvp works.
They do market there own games, i have read up on this game from many web sites, mags, and the most important the dev tracker from these forums. Any person has the abbility to read it. Its not the resoponsability of SOE or any company to make sure ppl read the info. SOE and anyother company has the responsability to make sure the info is there for ppl to read.
So basically you are saying that game companies should not even really bother to actively market their games? Their potential customers will find out everything they need to find out? That is not how commercialism works.
The wonders of advertisment, Soe puts out announcements to publishing companies about there products witch filter down to mags, websites and forums, Advertisments help let ppl know about the product, but when you really get down to the details you will find the information from the main company website. But i could go on and tell you more, but i dont think you want to hear about my 15+ years of being in retail sales.
Just try and break from the rut you put yourself into. leave emotion out of the picture and look at all the views from a detectives point of view and you will see that both pvp and pve players are really not that different.
The only reason I'm showing "emotion" here is that I have argued about this for a few hundred posts now, and frankly I'm very tired of it. Doesn't mean I will stop though, since all thearguments I hear arerather notvalid. And furthermore, this isn't about the nature of PVP and PVE players at all.
I still post here because i dont see a valid reason why the mission should be moved. And if this isnt about pvp and pve players at all, then what is it really about?
Im not saying that pvp will mean anything, Just surviving a mission in a pvp area will give meaning.
Again, that is in your view. In someone elses view that means nothing at all. Things don't have more meaning than what we give to them. What you find meaningful, someone else might find laughable. Some people might find collecting broken sandstats meaningful, while you don't. Didn't you just state that you were looking at this from many points of views? You obviously are not, since you just stated quite clearly that "surviving a mission in a pvp area will give meaning." It won't. In effect, everything is meaningless until you give it meaning.
Now stop and see what you just said. Yes i have a view i came here with, you have a view you came with, others have views they came with. We put them on the table and you just came out and said it wont work, but this whole time i have been here saying it can, but we will be strong in what we beileve will work or wont work. I said that i achknowledged that there is a possible griefing problem if the mission is in a pvp area, but i also said it really cant be griefing sinceppl would be playing in an area where players fighting each other is allowed. But you come along and say that the ppl playing on kesel will be sad that if the missions are moved to a pve area they would not have easy targets, which is really funny since you really cant tell how easy a player really is untill they start fighting. But then we get to my part of answering if being in a pvp area will have meaning, and yes it would, just like if there was a DWB in a pve space area for the final mission. But again you wont accept this as an answer since you have already made up you mind what you think the mission should be.
Your not, or else you would not be arguing with me on this, you are refusing to achknowledge my point of view as part of the whole picture.
No, I'm certain your point of view exists as a part of the whole picture. It's just not valid in one bit. And stick to the subject here: You think you will have a better overall experience due to this, but you are unable to see that people who dislike PVP won't, Right?
No, your wrong because you dont know, The whole time i have been here i been trying to tell you that you really dont know what will happen, you have it dead set in you mind that ppl will not enter a pvp area, because of the fear that they might get greifed, that is plain and simple. But i have been coming here and saying it can work, all you need is to practice and get friends to help. Toped with the fact that ppl can survive a pvp area to get a master title. And in the end it can make a person feel they acctuly earned the title as master. Is it so hard for you that ppl can try, is it hard to comprehend that ppl can learn to get something done in an area beyond the normal area they play in. Dont close some of those ppl off. Give them help, let them know they can do the mission with no problem.
Think hard. Look whats in front of you. Every change the devs have been doing has been to make the content at the end of some content difficult, this time they put the content in anarea some ppl dont like. To bad, learn to just get it done and move on.
No, people will not learn to like it. People will keep arguing against it until it is altered.
Wow, i like this statment from you since it is true, some ppl will not learn to like it and ppl will keep arguing till its altered, kinda sounds like you. I will defenatly remember this for a long time.
Right, ppl will not want to go if it is to hard. I would not want a DWB in space becasue the risk is to great, where just doing a one mission in a pvp area is more of a chance to get the mission done.
Ah, and you do not agree that having a mission in a PVP area will be too hard for non PVPers. Or are they just not worthy of the master box due to their inherent inferiority?
Dont put words in my mouth, All im saying is, that if the devs where to put the mission in a pve area, it would most likely be a DWB in space, and would be to great a risk to do, i would rathertake a pvp area to finish a mission with the chance of fighing other players that i can destroy. Where as a DWB in space will send wave apon wave of almost invincable ship that will keep you from a master title.
It doesn't matter what the true definition of "greifer" is. What matters is that people will percieve it as griefing. And furthermore, that's quite beside the point, since the question was if these missions were designed as content for griefers.
There not designed for griefers so the word griefer should be left out totaly, and ppl playing in a pvp zone are not griefers because the area the pvp player plays in is ment for ppl to attack each other. So what do we do to fix this, well one would to really inform the non pvp players the mission is in a pvp zone, and let them make the choice to go in or not.andanotherway is to just move the mission out of the area completely. Well we dont know what the devs view is on this and we dont know why, but from past experiance we can see what the devs are doing ad why. so we are here debating what is the better corse of action. and the debate goes on.....
Do you want ppl to fail if they go there, i dont, i want all players to be able to go in and try their best to complete the mission.
That's funny, just earlier you said that the only challenge is PVP. PVE can never be challenging. How can I then argue for people failing during these missions? And no, you don't want all players to be able to go in and try their best to complete the missions. If you did, you wouldn't object to these missions being moved one bit.
Again dont put words in my mouth, i just said having a mission in a pvp area will be challenging. pve can be boring, but it is also challenging. But arguing for ppl that fail the mission is good(keeps devs on there toes), but the key thing is that there trying, and maybe the non pvp players might find that they can do it, then we will find that having the mission in a pvp area was no problem at all.
But again you are stuck saying that this mission if for a griefer frag fest when its not.
It's not? Then why can:
A) People kill other people doing these missions, and by doing so ruin their progress?
Well in a pve area you could be doing a mission and a total random npcenemy just starts attacking you and kills you, does that ruin their progress to, does this mean we should get rid of all missions?
B) Camp the Corvettes for potential masters to kill
Wow camp an area in a pvp zone, I dont think a group of pvp players want to camp an area much since it makes them an easy target to find. Plus if they where camping a spot waiting, it would make it easier for you to surprise them.
C) People come back to Kessel without problem if they are actually killed by someone doing the mission, while A is still in effect?
Yes some ppl will come back, but they will bring more ppl to help.
You dont use radar much do you, a red dot is a red dot, and if it comes near me i react, dont you? The tools are there for you to use. the enemy is an enemy no matter what. They show up on my radar, i react. there is no difference if its a npc or a pvp player.
Since when does the radar show:
A) The heading of a target?
Ah, you dont know, the top half of the radar shows you whats in front of you, the bottom half shows whats in back of you. A beta tester like yourself didnt find this out, i learned it on day one. If the dot gets bigger is getting closer.
B) The actual distance to the target?
The smaller the red square the father away it is, the bigger the closer it is. Go check it out it helps alot on tracking hits and your target. You current target will have a little blue box around it. and mission targets have yellow boxes.
When you are busy fighting with a number of NPCs, you can't scan your target at all times. If you can, well, you are quite superhuman.
I track them all the time with the radar, my radar is my life, it tells me where everyone is and whats attacking me(the red dots flash when they are firing at you). for a good way to keep on your targets trail, the radar is the best way to keep tab and what direction they are headed and sometimes you can anticipate there moves.It dont take a super human to work a radar.
And how can you be stating that there is no difference between PVP and PVE? Why are you even arguing? Seems to me like you wouldn't care if the mission was moved or not.
I dont, im just saying that the mission in a pvp areais not a big deal and can be done.
, they gave us an answer that today many will not accept, the deva mad lots of changes to some professions and gave an answer, and many ppl chose not to accept, the dave made alot of other changes in the game with out telling us why, and they have the right not to say a darn thing, and ppl will not accept this, and here you refuse to see the whole picture of what is going on, and guess what, you going to have to make the choice of accepting what you have heard from the devs so far or not.
So basically, you think that the developers have a God given right to basically run us overwith any changes they want? Don't make me laugh again. The developers can't make changes to the game that the majority won't like, since they will loose business on that.
Yes, they have every right because its there game, they changed jedi because they didnt like what they saw and coincidently many ppl agreed. But when they changed the jedi, the majority of ppl didnt like what they had do, but did ppl leave, some did. Some are just playing the game as normal and some are grinding there jedi. things change and you will have to get use to the fact that it sometimes it will be something you really dont like, but your just going to have to live with it.
Message Edited by Naquiel on 11-01-2004 01:43 AM
Message Edited by Naquiel on 11-01-2004 01:55 AM
Just because you have to go to Kessen to complete the Skill does not mean that you will be ganked by droves and droves of master pilots. They have better things to do with their time rather than wait for a 1hit kill. Yup. You read it. One hit it all it takes. No 75% reduction in damage here. Wheres the fun in that. How can anybody get any fun out of 1hit killing individuals? There isn't/ They have other things to do like decorate their MPS's, hunt down a shipwright willing to sell a firespray - Do you actually know how these chasis's are made? Hunting down JTL owners in the hope for a crew =b or just generally standing round starports with their titles up feeling smug. Why? Cos its all a big puff of smoke about evil vindictive individuals who insist on ruining others' gameplay. Reading this thread is like reading about the boogie man. =)
Deep Space which requires master ace pilot, has all the best loot, is the most impressive and has the best challenges in game by far, and is a PvP area too. THATS where you need to worry about griefers if there are any.
I just feel that everyones panicking and crying wolf to something which, in all honesty, could possibly not exist.
Keep it as it is.
If your scared that someone may be after you ask for a couple of friends to come and help you in Kessen. Your not going to be bullied then.
Slarus wrote:
And how do you explain people ganking folks in Beta, THEY ALREADY did it. It isn't about fun to a griefer it is about power. If they have the best gear and show it off by harassing others. PvP is only about who has more time and money to devote to PvP, thos are the folks who will be there doing nothing but hunting Master mission pilots.
You just wrong and very trusting
Message Edited by BleuDestiny on 11-01-2004 04:48 PM
Slarus wrote:
Have you been reading my posts, This is not a griefing problem. It is you thinking its a griefing problem. Learn what the term griefer means. And how do you know a pvp player is only out for power, what if there just pvping to see if they can win against an enemy, or that they are there to just test their skills. You really dont know. And about pvp players having more time, i dont think so. Alot of players platy at different times and play when they can and this is for the whole player base, not just pvp players or just pvp players, but for all players. And again how does a pvp player know that an enemy in the pvp zone is only there for a mission, You dont and if you did i would love to know your secret.
There is a difference between PvPer and a griefer. A griefer is out to show off power, to prevent others from having fun. A PvPer is someone out for the thrill of fighting a real human. It will be very tough to tell em apart seeing how the Devs made griefing the focus of this game. There will be griefing, and non-griefing that will become griefing to many due to the Devs inability to see the failures of a forced PvP system.
How can the so called griefer be griefing in a pvp zone where ppl can shoot at other ppl. How can he be stopping a persons fun in an area where shooting at each other is the norm in that area. So again, you have no clue what the term griefer means. And the devs did not make griefing part of this game, you did by thinking it is.
Here is what i said to vic: When apvp player is playing in a pvp area they dont stop to see who there shooting at, there only attacking an enemy, they dont know there strong or week, they dont know if there a non pvp player, all they know that there is an enemy there that they have to destroy. But if the pvp player knew who the person was and spacificly killed the same person over and over and over then it would be griefing, do you under stand that now. And how does a pvp player know that an enemy is there to do a mission.
So think hard now. In pve when you flying along headed to a mission, and then suddenly your attacked by an npc. he shoots at you chasing you left and right, and then kills you. Would you call the npc a griefer? You answer would be something like there is no difference and that dieing to a npc was that the ai was just a little to strong. Well guess what, its the same as if a pvp player was shooting at you. Fron dieing from a npc you learn to get up and try again and the same is if you died from a pvp event.
So get the word griefer out of your head and really look what is in front of you.
lajduke wrote:
Im gonna input my 2 cents on this issue.
I have spent a total of 8 hours in kessel over the last 2 days. Each day I am peacfully watching out for players, 4 hours or so after entering kessel to do my master mission part 1 (kill 30 ties) I am down to 1 or 2 left. Im like ok good i can get this over with and get off this game for a bit. Well no, the second i hit one or two left, boom a player comes out of nowhere and pops me off in a few hits. I have a big problem with the 30 kills mission being in the kessel system. It takes so ruddy long (i dont really have a problem with that) that its almost not worth spending time on cause you know your gonna die right at 1 or 2 kills left. Ive got no problem with putting the corvette one in there, seeing as if you have a group it doesnt take that long to do. But to spend 4 hours in kessel killing 30 ties, and to get killed on my last one by a player, this does not make for a very pleasent gaming experience. I would like to see the 30 kills mission moved to a non PvP sector, Or make it a instanced sector. This has happend 2 times to me and I am starting to get fed up.
Ok now take your same situation and put it in pve, then let the enemy that attacked you be a strong npc, would you be just as mad if it happened? And next time take a few friends with you.
Message Edited by Naquiel on 11-01-2004 05:54 PM