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Message Edited by Trystim on 11-17-2004 12:58 PM

Last night, I found myself out-turned by tier3 b-wings. I could barely outrun them. I am in a TIE with a boosted engine going around 830. I can understand the fast speed of an A-Wing. I'm fine with that.

A-wings, when you can chase them, are easy. I would like to see less speed from the AI and more evasion.

The Shuttle in Imperial Inquisition mission 3,2 turns too well. That thing was turning faster that I could, even if I cut my speed, and I'm in a TIE! I thought that shuttles were supposed to turn like boats.

I've a theory on what the problem with turrets may be. There's no delay between the AI calculating where the target is and firing the guns. The speed on this calculation is so fast that the motion of nearby ships and the motion of its own ship does not matter, which makes every shot precise and negates any ability of a pilot to dodge shots. In a normal combat, the gunner is guessing where the target will be in .2 seconds. His shots are complicated by the target moving, combined with his own ship's unpredictable evasive maneuvers. This makes hitting a target unpredictably hard. (This may be a problem with the entire AI, as they are amazingly accurate.)

In short, you need more noise in your calculations for turrets. The easiest way to do that is to introduce a firing delay between the AI choosing to shoot and the actual shot.

A second problem with the AI is that the first shot is as accurate as the third shot. Humans usually miss their first few shots, but use that information to increase their aim. When the AI can just line up and hit, that strikes most pilots and unreasilisticly accurate. Again, some type of noise in the system is needed.

If possible, sit down and observe the way that your PC pilots actually line up and shoot their guns. When you can get your AI to act like that, you've got a good targeting AI.

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swgdevmbogue wrote:

We are aware of all the concerns and opinions about the AI. We are constantly adjusting the AI to make it challenging and fun. If you have concerns about the current state of the space AI, please continue to voice your opinion. Just saying it sucks and you are going to quit your account does not get anything accomplished. If you would like to help test our AI changes, please go to Test Center and play a little (there are ship AI changes on Test Center). After playing on Test Center please, come back by, say you played there, and voice your thoughts on what you liked, did not like, and any opinions on how it should be. This will help us the most in making the AI fun for everyone.

I know some of you will complain that you have to start from scratch on Test Center. Honestly, it does not take very long to get through the first few tiers of JTL. Thanks for playing.

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Do me a favour, go out there and try it (as a rebel) since the AI speed stealth patch. My slug like longbow turns so slowly and has such a low top speed (even with a 69 engine in it) I've more or less given up on getting the second box of tier 2. I'm currently 2/1/1/1 And I don't see 2/2/1/1 happening any time soon if these changes stand.

Thats right, I've more or less given up getting a tier you say "it does not take very long to get through". How out of touch with the game are you guys?

It was bad enough going up against tier 3 interceptors (groups of three in duty missons for goodenss sake) with a dog slow and sluggish longbow before this patch, now I have time for a few shots as they charge at me head on, then wait till they come close to firing range again. Even the tier 2 TIE fighter are well out of my range by the time I turn round.

After a large amount of frustration Tuesday night, I decided I was going to find some Imperial Ace and beat engine overload 3 from him. Thankfully, I didn't have to do that. After a friendly conversion with a fellow Trandoshan, we made a deal and off I went skipping through Coronet, looking for "Beans," my astromech.

Being rabidly devoted to the rebel cause, Beans really didn't appreciate the Imperial program is was trying to program him with. Droid post-traumatic stress or something. Beans did change his mind when we finally got up into space cruising around at 1200 in an X-wing. He chirped something I can roughly translate as, "Where the lady droids at?!?!" about 400 times as we blew by nearly everything at a heart pounding pace.

Thankfully, he began is usually incessant screaming as the Ties came out of nowhere. If only there was a mute button in the cockpit. With this new found speed and being able to maneuver at 900, the ties were gone almost as fast as they appeared.



Seriously now, these AI changes are horrid for rebel pilots unless the can get a high loot engine or an engine overload 3 chip. I happened to see a movie of an Imperial show how easy it was to take down the new AI and all I have to say is... Of course it's easy when you fly at 1200. Its so easy as soon as you can get to that speed, its not even fun.

I was mad as hell Tuesday night when I got home and couldn't finish Tier 4, I logged off and considered drinking rubbing alcohol. Mid-swig, I changed my mind and decided on finding engine overload 3. The new AI apparently doesn't care when you are flying 10 meters behind them firing quad linked blasters up their tailpipes. They enjoy just cruising along thinking nothing of it and then boom they just explode. (My grandmother drives the same way.)

Without the chip activated, it's turn, boost, turn, boost, ad infinitum. No good.

This is my first simulated flying twitch based space shooter and the AI was actually better pre-11.2. It was still easy, but not this easy. You've changed from a dogfight to a speed fight. Whoever goes faster can win.

In closing, if you actually read this, I hope you at least enjoyed the wacky antics of my astromech, Beans.

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Starson wrote:

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Amuro0079 wrote:

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Starson wrote:

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Amuro0079 wrote:

I do not like the new ship AI at all. It makeshigh level missions even harder. As for loot selling, I would like to be able to see the istats when I highlightan itemin the list so I don't end up selling something I actually need. Right now I need to open my inventory at the same timeto checkthe stats, and since the component list is not sorted in anyway, the process becomes verytime consuming if you have a lot of components in your inventory.

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Quick help mate, if you change view, in your inventory, then click the 'name' column, or the 'type' cloumn, then change view again. It will list your stuff by alph. order (name), or type. It will not stay that way, as the inventory list things in the order you put them in. I know its a couple clicks, but it helps me organize everything. On the other hand, if you do this, then put stuff in a pouch or pack or whatever, then it will be in the order you put it in the bag.

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I'm not talking about the inventory list, I'm referring to the loot list displayed in the sell window.

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oops

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From what I've noticed, the one time I was selling equipment, the list seems to go through your backpack first, then your main inventory, then any bags you may have in your main inventory.

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Doctor_Zaius wrote:

I think the ai change was mediocre...

You took a wings which were a pain and half enough to kill to being ridiculous to kill

have you been in a dog fight with an a wing since this change? they zoom by you as usual. shoot at you a few times, then zoom off at least 1200 speed (CRUISING MIND YOU) by the time you turn around your weapons aren't even in range.

before people start in with 'get a faster ship' or 'get a faster engine' or 'get blahblahblah' i do have somewhat top of the line equipment in my ship, I know how to fly it just fine.

I've failed like three missions today because it took me 10 minutes to kill 2 awings that wouldn't leave my escort mission alone.. so i drifted like 3km away from my transport and they bugged out... so ridiculous and frustrating1#@!@

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Have to agree somthing just aint right with the new AI.. I had problems with trying to kill the z-95 tier 4 when i used to take them out in a few shots..

It took me and my friend both in TIE aggressors quite a while just to take one down it was like it was taking no damage..

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swgdevmbogue wrote:

I am reading all the posts to this thread. If you guys get a chance to play even a few missions on Test Center, please do. Swing back by and post your opinions as there are modifications to the AI which may address the complaints of many of the posts here.

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Haven't played on TC but been playing all day on Live against Tier 5s in Dathomir mostly. Was pleasently surprised to find that I had to learn how to ROLL in addition to using throttle to stay on the six of a Vin'ticula Bounty Hunter. I thought this was a nice change since I was getting a bit bored with the old system of "wait for the rush, make the turn early and drop in behind". The Jousters are doing it wrong. Hope the complainers haven't succeeded in forcing a complete roll back. My advice would be to keep the speed mods and tweak the AI on the missions so that mission holder doesn't draw ALL the aggro. I had no problem with the concept of missions being very hard to impossible to solo while leveling, they don't call them "squadrons" for nothing, but drawing 5-10 aggro's on a single person even while grouped is unfun.

Looking forward to looting a Black Sun Ace Helmet...