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Thread: AI Changes
Vicotnik
Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:16 pm
#171
I actually think it is worse for higher level players, since we can pretty much keep up with the NPC ships (with good engines, a fast ship and engine overload) and the NPC ships are dumb as dirt. We can just trail them with no effort at all, really. Boooooring.
Blackjack_Nova wrote:
For higher level players the change is much more enjoyable because there ship are much faster and better equipped. It sucks that the game play for slower ships is destoryed by this change, but that is something that can be tweaked.
truewildman
Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:18 pm
#172
Vicotnik wrote:
I actually think it is worse for higher level players, since we can pretty much keep up with the NPC ships (with good engines, a fast ship and engine overload) and the NPC ships are dumb as dirt. We can just trail them with no effort at all, really. Boooooring.
Blackjack_Nova wrote:
For higher level players the change is much more enjoyable because there ship are much faster and better equipped. It sucks that the game play for slower ships is destoryed by this change, but that is something that can be tweaked.
/agree. My Firespray with the imp overload3 chip keeps up real nicely.
WarlordRhawn
Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:06 pm
#173
truewildman wrote:
/agree. My Firespray with the imp overload3 chip keeps up real nicely.
To Boslo:
What about the people who don't have a firespray and have no access to an overload 3 chip? What you have done to these people is take a game that was fun for them and made a game that is burdensome for htem and they are in the vast majority. Where as you Boslo are in the minority. While "jousting" may be fun for you and I have to admit now that I figured out a way to basically kill the critters this new AI has been alot more fun for me.
However that said, I have now figured out a method to defeat them. That is not a twitch based system. I really wish people like yourself could get that in your head and from reading the 8 pages of threads Boslo you seem to specifically not get this. There is no dogfighting in the "joust," what you have here is players making methods of catching AI that defies the physics. The game should not be so burdensome for these players.
Finally Bozlo I think that your experience is tainted. You see you got through most of your tree in the previous system. I have no doubt about that if you now have a firespray YT-1300 etc etc. Don't compare your experience to theirs. Your talking apples and oranges. If you want to be knowledgable on the subject then here is what you need to do. Surrender all of your skills and regrind. Then come back and post. Then no one will be able to question anything you state.
Concerning the Topic At Hand:
I don't understand why the developers decided to make so drastic a change to the AI. At first when I was an RSF pilot I really didn't understand the differences as I never saw them fighting pirate ships ad infinitum. Now that I am fighting TIE fighters as a CorSec I see what their issues are.
Dev: I want you to sometime take a look at the server numbers. There was a time not to long ago where every server was reporting "heavy" or "medium" usage. Right now, as of this second all servers are reporting "light" usage. Numbers have crashed in Starsider to a point where I think a critical level has been reached and alot of this is directly germaine to what you have done with this AI patch. From now on I think your team should be focusing on not fixing what was not broke, but instead addressing what needs fixing. If the majority are happy with the AI, then for crying out loud don't go about "fixing it." Move on to add some content to this game or additional areas. That would be what continues to attract people to this game instead of trying to simulate more content by making things a grind. No player likes a grind, if we wanted a grind we have Everquest made by your own corporation SOE.
You did alot of things right in this patch. The chassis guys giving me back credits for the stuff I loot was a positive step in the right direction. I thank you for that. It was simply an amazing idea from start to finish. That being said you did alot of wrong things with this patch to. You for whatever reason did a lateral move and the dev team seems to like these. When Galaxies was released it was new, then you nerfed it and people got angry and quit. Now JTL is released and the game is new, people enjoy it and you nerf it and people get angry and quit. They say history is repeating and sadly your not learning from your mistakes.
Please learn from your mistakes. Roll back this AI portion of the patch. Here is what I suggest. First remove the shielding/armor/weapon accuracybuffs and restore them to previous levels. Gradually increase these and continually find player feedback. Try to find a center where these are concerned. Next if you feel you must address the AI. One thing I really like about this AI is that it splits off into groups to attack me. Use the previous AI and have ships split off into groups just like they are doing now except no jousting to do it. Then try it on test center and get feed back.
Guys you have a very limited time to fix this and I beg you don't destroy the forward progress you made with this patch. Do the right thing, roll it back and do it now.
Message Edited by WarlordRhawn on 11-19-2004 01:09 PM
truewildman
Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:34 pm
#174
WarlordRhawn wrote:
truewildman wrote:
/agree. My Firespray with the imp overload3 chip keeps up real nicely.
To Boslo:
What about the people who don't have a firespray and have no access to an overload 3 chip? What you have done to these people is take a game that was fun for them and made a game that is burdensome for htem and they are in the vast majority. Where as you Boslo are in the minority. While "jousting" may be fun for you and I have to admit now that I figured out a way to basically kill the critters this new AI has been alot more fun for me.
However that said, I have now figured out a method to defeat them. That is not a twitch based system. I really wish people like yourself could get that in your head and from reading the 8 pages of threads Boslo you seem to specifically not get this. There is no dogfighting in the "joust," what you have here is players making methods of catching AI that defies the physics. The game should not be so burdensome for these players.
Finally Bozlo I think that your experience is tainted. You see you got through most of your tree in the previous system. I have no doubt about that if you now have a firespray YT-1300 etc etc. Don't compare your experience to theirs. Your talking apples and oranges. If you want to be knowledgable on the subject then here is what you need to do. Surrender all of your skills and regrind. Then come back and post. Then no one will be able to question anything you state.
Doood, chill out. All I said was I keep up with them. I never said I liked it....
lycanthropy
Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:29 pm
#175
well a few days ago they were talking about how "they are still trying to tweak the AI, and asking for feedback on the current changes" i sure hope they are taking notes!
Buttersjosh
Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:29 am
#176
I used to be able to fight off 7 tier 4s now i can't fight 2 with out giving up
DND_Cas
Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:49 am
#177
Maulibaer wrote:
AS SAID IN BETA: NO JOUSTING IN SPACE, PLEASE!!!
What I don't understand is THIS fact:
We - the beta-players - have dismissed THIS sort of "AI" (SPEED-CHANGE) already in BETA as UNPLAYABLE......
Why get it now installed in LIVE???????
That is somethingnot really understandable.......
Maybe the DEVS should tell us a little more what their intended destination is?
(I don't think they will destroy the game and their work? So what is the target????)
/agree.
This AI was kicked out at least twice in beta that I recall. I took a mission today and then landed after 2 waves because it was so boring.
Get rid of please devs.
CallebOta
Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:06 pm
#178
I have spent like a week trying to do a tier 3 mission because of how hard it is. Everytime fight is a jousting match with thre difference is that 6 ships are doing it, and its just too much for my Y-wing to handle due to how much of a slow snail it is maneuvering.
I just can't handle jousting with 6 ships at once. Missiles are rendered useless coz you don't have long enough to lock.
I think they should change it back to the way it was.
I just can't handle jousting with 6 ships at once. Missiles are rendered useless coz you don't have long enough to lock.
I think they should change it back to the way it was.
Slvrwolf
Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:52 pm
#179
I agree. I hate the change. I logged out because of the annoyance factor.
NRNCrash
Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:17 pm
#180
i've noticed teh most annoying thing about the AI is lack of tactics. you get in a fight with them and they all turn the same way. as for the fighters getting too far away after the head to head, if you're having trouble with this and you don't have overload, fly out to the side a little bit and start your turn earlier and it should pop you really close behind the enemies (if done right). my biggest problem is the tie aggressors. those turrets piss me off. :*(
truewildman
Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:05 am
#181
Looks like it's changed again. The AI is a bit slower, and they actually try to shake you now. It was actually awesome to fight them now!!
CallebOta
Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:42 pm
#182
I can't joust 6 on 1 si I'm not going to play space for a while as I've no doubt the devs wil yet make more changes for better or for worst, besides I'm on my second ship already due to chassis decay.