Jump To Lightspeed Archive
Thread: AI Changes
Iwami
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:49 pm
#131
If anyone wants to test these changes out on TC, there is a ship library in New Unity on Naboo, West of the shuttleport, that has ships/components selling for 1 credit. Be sure to trade the ship/components back to the vendor for 1 credit when you are done with it.
Wakkoin
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:59 pm
#132
Iwami wrote:
If anyone wants to test these changes out on TC, there is a ship library in New Unity on Naboo, West of the shuttleport, that has ships/components selling for 1 credit. Be sure to trade the ship/components back to the vendor for 1 credit when you are done with it.
brilliant, whom ever came up with that idea
DeQuosaek
Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:28 pm
#133
This might be a dumb question, but I have Test Center set up but I did it before I got JtL and it's not JtL enabled. What is the easiest or best way for me to go about getting JtL working on my Test Center installation? Can I just use the disk and then download the patches?
I guess I could just try it... Any advice though?
JeremyMetal
Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:34 pm
#134
I think the "AI speed improvement" is just a side-effect of increasing crafted engine speeds for Shipwrights.
I'm guessing it wasnt intended, but who knows.
Undergrid
Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:00 pm
#135
DeQuosaek wrote:This might be a dumb question, but I have Test Center set up but I did it before I got JtL and it's not JtL enabled. What is the easiest or best way for me to go about getting JtL working on my Test Center installation? Can I just use the disk and then download the patches?I guess I could just try it... Any advice though?
I think the first time you log in with a JTL enabled account it will download all the JTL content. It might be smart and copy it from the non-TC install (like it does initially when you install the TC build) but I don't know for sure.
RSQViper
Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:35 pm
#136
To me TIES just go way too fast and do runs on you. It removes the dogfighting which is the truly fun part of JTL.
Also, ships you are firing on should move out of that danger arc they fly in (at least the faster ones, maybe not Gunships and stuff with turrets). If they are getting hit a few times it would be really great and add to the game if they broke off that route trying to avoid your fire.
Right now they just go around and around until they are dead, following basically the same path.
DeQuosaek
Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:40 pm
#137
Sounds good. I'll just re-copy the SWG folder and let it patch the newest files.
Undergrid wrote:
I think the first time you log in with a JTL enabled account it will download all the JTL content. It might be smart and copy it from the non-TC install (like it does initially when you install the TC build) but I don't know for sure.
DeQuosaek wrote:
This might be a dumb question, but I have Test Center set up but I did it before I got JtL and it's not JtL enabled. What is the easiest or best way for me to go about getting JtL working on my Test Center installation?
Doctor_Zaius
Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:01 am
#138
I think the ai change was mediocre...
You took a wings which were a pain and half enough to kill to being ridiculous to kill
have you been in a dog fight with an a wing since this change? they zoom by you as usual. shoot at you a few times, then zoom off at least 1200 speed (CRUISING MIND YOU) by the time you turn around your weapons aren't even in range.
before people start in with 'get a faster ship' or 'get a faster engine' or 'get blahblahblah' i do have somewhat top of the line equipment in my ship, I know how to fly it just fine.
I've failed like three missions today because it took me 10 minutes to kill 2 awings that wouldn't leave my escort mission alone.. so i drifted like 3km away from my transport and they bugged out... so ridiculous and frustrating1#@!@
Trystim
Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:00 am
#139
Jimerlins > your post would be all fine and dandy if I actually felt that way...the problem is I have gotten better, I did learn and I DID
enjoy myself. The previous a.i. was very difficult for me, however, I stuck with it and grouped and learned better tactics and got
myself to pilot 4433 (if you didn't already read that) My problem is that as soon as I got better and was finally able to actually enjoy
JTL and this whole 'twitch' based genre, the dev's changed the a.i.'s speed which makes it even harder to take on more than one
(Which even in a group, during most of the missions, the enemy guns directly for the mission taker, not the group) I did learn
how to take out 1 at a time (without being ganked by 5-10 hypersonic NPCS) but it took about 5-10 minutes using 3 level 7 weapons
(which I used the tactic where you sit and wait for them to loop around , then come straight at you as you blast them and disable them)
However, you do the math, I'll still need 2 million xp to go and 3 missions not including the master missions to finish up tier 4.
At 5-10 minutes each, that's a pretty long time to be doing nothing but trying to stay infront of a mob with poorly coded A.I. - One last thing
yes, it is twitch based, but no one said that being a skilled FPS was a requirement for enjoying the content or added features of
JTL. And last time I checked, you didn't have to be a Nascar driver to drive a bus, so that analogy is bogus. (Which I had a feeling you'd
say something like that) The 'twitch' part of JTL was to be 'integrated' into Star Wars Galaxies, making it possible for existing SWG
players to play JTL as well, it's not it's 'own' seperate game, it is an 'EXPANSION', that would mean that it 'expands' on the already
existing star wars game. So, I'll say to you that if you feel that JTL is not as challanging as a Flight Sim, and in feeling so, you have to
coerce the devs to make it more difficult then I'd say maybe JTL isn't the 'game you're looking for'
JimerLins
Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:00 am
#140
GangaWolf wrote:
JimerLins wrote:
No, everyone shouldn't have a chance to progess....
If it isn't open to everyone, than SOE shouldn't mind players quitting the game.
What if SOE made "super Jedi" to anyone that could pay $1000 per month? So players who can afford it will tell others "suck it up and get a better job if you want it". It's not there fault that they can afford it. I know it is an extreme example, but some players can play twitch, some can't. Some people can get and succeed at high-paying jobs, some can't.
I'm not saying that the quickest path to Master Pilot shouldn't be the hardest. However, SOE should create a longer and slower path for those whose reflexes aren't as quick as they used to be. It still provides them with the opportunity to get at the content, and doesn't unfairly hurt the "expert twitcher" out there. Right now there is no alternatives.
And for the record, I am a "twitch" player. I just think that for a game like this to be successful you need to create alternatives to appeal to the largest number of people possible.
I don't have a problem with appealing to the largest number of people possible. But asI said, some games aren't for some people. I don't play Planetside for a reason- I'm not into the pure FPS any more. Different aspects of the game (and the content therein) require different things. The ground game is the alternative to the twitch stuff. And no one's stopping anyone from progressing as far as their skills can take them- but being a Master Pilot in a twitch-based game means you've gotta have the chops.
And I'm an RPer. 
Trystim
Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:07 am
#141
Gangawolf > Nicely put and I fully agree. I don't feel that any valid playing style (minus grievers, etc) should
be left out of ANY content. Challenging is one thing. Stacking the deck is another. It is in my opinion that this added
speed change is 'stacking' the deck to where only the experienced FPS will have a chance at the content
(unless like most of them, they've already mastered and much of these speed changes don't matter anyway)
The problem with some players is that they take an elitist stand point. They believe that only their playing style
should have access to certain content which doesn't fly in a MMO. Just because you play one side better when
the deck is stacked against the otherside, the otherside still should not be purposely gated by difficulty. After
all the existing masters now did not have to deal with this 'speed' change on their path to master, why should
we?
Karquile
Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:08 am
#142
swgdevmbogue wrote:
We are aware of all the concerns and opinions about the AI. We are constantly adjusting the AI to make it challenging and fun. If you have concerns about the current state of the space AI, please continue to voice your opinion.
To be honest swgdevmbogue, I don't care what the NPC AI does -as long as it lives within the same game physics I'm bound by. If you want to make them fly crazy 8's or spell out HELP or circle each other, I'm ready to devise a countering tactic. But I cannot counter an arbitrary increase in NPC ship speed or maneuverability - one that I'm not allowed to share even if I get the same ship type that the NPC has.
I'm using my new uber system with absolutely no lag, so I know that the NPC ships are really jinking around at unnatural speed that I can't match. I know they are accelerating like jackrabbits on those firing passes.
I believe that your first rule should be to make sure that NPC's and players alike are bound by the same physics. Then get as clever as you want with the AI within those constraints.
JimerLins
Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:10 am
#143
Just for the record, I'm currently a 1222 Privateer, so I'm not talking from the lofty position of someone who's already reached Master. I think the AI changes are a problem and need correcting/tweaking, but I also think the previous way the AI worked sucked. So this is an improvement, because the enemy ships are actually flying a little more like an actual enemy instead of a big fat target.
Yeah, I don't like jousting either. But the whirligig we had before was no better. I'd prefer they tweak than do nothing.