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Thread: AI Changes
EMC2
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:21 pm
#118
JimerLins wrote:
Personally, I want the AI to be as close to a human as possible. I want it to be tough to beat. I wish the AI was better and their ships not so bloody tough. If I had a ship with that much armor and shielding, I'd be able to solo the Death Star.
And with that very true statement (meaning the goal of "AI" is an artificial representation of human intelligence/ability), there is no way in hell that a human player operating a turret in the back of a Tie Aggressor flown by another human player is going to hit 100%.
Rear firing turrets are way too accurate to be realistic.
DrakoonShao
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:36 pm
#119
I really kinda like the new AI, but I can see how it would cause some problems depending on your playstyle and ship. I just spent two hours in Kessel working on the "kill 30 enemies" part of the master missions. I had no problem staying on the tail of the Tier 5 Ties there, whether they were interceptors, advanceds, etc. Of course I was flying a Kihraxz with a 92 speed engine and a good booster. Careful manipulation of my thrust and timed use of the booster easily kept me on my target. However if someone was flying anything but each professions lightest craft I could see how it could be frustrating.
My thoughts for tweaks would be only a slight drop off in top speed, but a larger decrease in the npc's acceleration/deceleration values. From what I noticed, they seemed to hit top speed out of thier turns pretty much immediately (which is where the timed use of your booster comes in). I really like the AI as it stands though, it's good to not just be following the NPCs in a circle for a change. With a couple tweaks, it could be really nice I think.
Only real problem I have is the spawn rate in Kessel. It took me 2 hours to kill 20 enemies (had to log to go to work) and it wasn't because it took a long time to kill them. It was because they were impossible to frigging find. That's probably a matter for another thread though.
Samtha
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:38 pm
#120
swgdevmbogue wrote:We are aware of all the concerns and opinions about the AI. We are constantly adjusting the AI to make it challenging and fun. If you have concerns about the current state of the space AI, please continue to voice your opinion. Just saying it sucks and you are going to quit your account does not get anything accomplished. If you would like to help test our AI changes, please go to Test Center and play a little (there are ship AI changes on Test Center). After playing on Test Center please, come back by, say you played there, and voice your thoughts on what you liked, did not like, and any opinions on how it should be. This will help us the most in making the AI fun for everyone.I know some of you will complain that you have to start from scratch on Test Center. Honestly, it does not take very long to get through the first few tiers of JTL. Thanks for playing.
I would like to see the NPCs trying harder to shake me when I am on their six... having 90% of them go up and to the left in one long loop is certainly not the smartest of them... very rarely do I get one that changes direction more than once in an effort to not die..
Iceman-KG-
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:57 pm
#121
This isn't rocket science. The general opinion looks to be around "change back the AI, this new stuff is like the pain in the butt AI that we got taken out during beta. Do we need to draw a flowchart?
swgdevmbogue wrote:
We are aware of all the concerns and opinions about the AI. We are constantly adjusting the AI to make it challenging and fun. If you have concerns about the current state of the space AI, please continue to voice your opinion. Just saying it sucks and you are going to quit your account does not get anything accomplished. If you would like to help test our AI changes, please go to Test Center and play a little (there are ship AI changes on Test Center). After playing on Test Center please, come back by, say you played there, and voice your thoughts on what you liked, did not like, and any opinions on how it should be. This will help us the most in making the AI fun for everyone.
I know some of you will complain that you have to start from scratch on Test Center. Honestly, it does not take very long to get through the first few tiers of JTL. Thanks for playing.
Maulibaer
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:03 pm
#122
Thx for jousting in space again!
It has ruined my Beta experience in space and it will do the same in live now!
Do you ever learn something?
Please fix this asap......
swgdevmbogue
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:18 pm
#123
I am reading all the posts to this thread. If you guys get a chance to play even a few missions on Test Center, please do. Swing back by and post your opinions as there are modifications to the AI which may address the complaints of many of the posts here.
Bacacuba
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:22 pm
#124
swgdevmbogue wrote:
I am reading all the posts to this thread. If you guys get a chance to play even a few missions on Test Center, please do. Swing back by and post your opinions as there are modifications to the AI which may address the complaints of many of the posts here.
Have to agree with those thanking you for at least telling us that you're aware of our conerns with the changes and will certainly check out combat both on Live and TC tonight when I get home work. It's communication like this that give me some hope for the future of SWG!
Agraco
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:24 pm
#125
Bacacuba wrote:
swgdevmbogue wrote:
I am reading all the posts to this thread. If you guys get a chance to play even a few missions on Test Center, please do. Swing back by and post your opinions as there are modifications to the AI which may address the complaints of many of the posts here.
Have to agree with those thanking you for at least telling us that you're aware of our conerns with the changes and will certainly check out combat both on Live and TC tonight when I get home work. It's communication like this that give me some hope for the future of SWG!
Most agreed
lammergeier
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:31 pm
#126
swgdevmbogue wrote:I am reading all the posts to this thread. If you guys get a chance to play even a few missions on Test Center, please do. Swing back by and post your opinions as there are modifications to the AI which may address the complaints of many of the posts here.
...when TC comes back up.
from a fulltime TC player, here are the problems I'm seeing with the AI (as of this morning):
npc speed = player speed + x, where x is some number defined by ARG. at a player base speed of about 1000, tier 2+ ships are running well out of range, turning around, and 'jousting.' at first I thought I just needed a faster ship/engine, but with the engine upgraded and overloaded, I'm still seeing ships well out of range.
turrets are still wickedly effective for NPC's... and of dubious use for players. I enjoy the 'group-within-a-ship' that player turrets offer, but NPC's make even the best player look like a bumbling idiot when it comes to accuracy.
mission-spawned ships tend to dogpile the player with the mission, while grouped wingmates are left pretty much unmolested. NPC's will park on the tail of a y-wing player while wingmates pound them mercilessly... pulling NPC ships from escort targets seems to be working, but not pulling them from slow players with a mission.
Leafthemedic
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:37 pm
#127
While I do not at present have JTL, from monitoring our server wide chat channel (TCPA) on test center it seems that the NPC's engage you then go in large circles at high speed. What I find interesting is that in the ground game recently avianmobs are warping after you get their HAM down to 5% or less, moving 100M or moreaway when they hit that magic 5% or less of HAM. This happens in between shots with my speed capped pistoleer, one second they are 5m away from you and then you get "target is out of range" and you see your target 100m+ away from you. I do not know if the space A.I. and avian creatures share the same code.
Took Alot
Master Doctor/Pistoleer
Metropolis of Skystone, Tatooine on TC-Prime
swgdevmbogue
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:41 pm
#128
The best place to respond to this thread would be in the "In Testing"forumand the "FeedBack (SpaceAI)" thread I started.
thanks.
Trystim
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:44 pm
#129
Ok, I have done a few missions on test center with this 'new a.i' - however before my client crashed..hehe... I'm finding it hard to test
using tier 1 starter ships against tier 1 enemies. Of course those aren't going to be 'jacked' up. Is there anyway we could do some controlled
testing where we can recreate the equipment, skills, and ships that we are able to use or have on live? It might be better to test with things that
we actually have on live in order to 'compare' the different behaviors. I'm sorry I cannot form an opinion based on lower level missions and lower
level tier enemies because on Live I was not experiencing a problem with tier 1 ships due to my level. Now, toss in some tier 4's and pass me a tier
4 ship with tier 4 weapons and I'll be more than happy to test the data out. Until then, looks like I can't be much help.
SBRD0C
Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:47 pm
#130
KStarfire wrote:
It did make things more difficult, but i kinda like it. However some notice in the Patch Notes would have been nice to see
The othter problem i have is with TIE Aggressors, the rear turrets have a 100% accuracy on NPC ships (same problem the YTs had in beta).
KStarfire
Not 100% per se.. I made one miss at least twice last night...
My opinion NPC pilots suddenyl got rather dumb, its great for them that they now use thier full throttle, but they fly in a straight line as they head away from you, making them an easy target (unless they are an agressor and laying down fire to cover thier @$$). If they want to make it even MORE challenging they should make theNPCs Jink a little while they are flying circles around us. just my 2 creds