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Thread: Petition: Take the master pilot mission OUT of Kessel :p
fav wrote:
If you're good, you're good and if you can take down a tier 5 ship with 30 hits why can't you take down a player ship with 1?
When that player can take you out with one hit, it really doesn't matter how good you are. Take this situation: you're engaged in combat with 5 enemy NPC fighters and you are winning. You avoid taking too much damage while getting in good hits. Along comes a player from behind and blasts you. You're dead without knowing who it was that hit you. You can be the greatest pilot who ever lived, but when you can be killed by a single shot that you never saw coming, it's all meaningless. You have to be able to see the player coming in order to even have a chance.
yayson wrote:
OKAY I BEAT IT! but still agree with this thread. The 30 ship kill was ok, just me and a wingman, only had 1 pvp instance. The vette took a team of 20!! yes 20! and 0 PvP so we got luck and no one messed with our show. Would have hated to wait all that time for the vette and have some one kill me. Worse yet, almost kill the vette and have someone kill me.
fav wrote:I think PvP is the very essence of this expansion. I think PvE combat is just "the grind" to get to the ultimate goal which is: real space combat with other living pilots. Like Han Solo said "Good against remotes; that's one thing... good against the living; that's something else."
If that's what you want from the game, great. Go for it. I don't hold anything against anyone who sees their goal as PVP. The devs even created two full PVP zones for this purpose.
However, the thing you need to understand is that PVP is NOT the goal for a sizable number of players. There is a good number of people who want nothing to do with PVP. They just want to play the game and have fun with their friends. Some want to be Han Solo - fly around in the YT-1300 with a few people. Many others will want to PVP at times, but not while they are doing a PVE mission.
Removing PVE missions from the PVP zone will not do anything to keep you from your goal. In fact, I'd say it would make Kessel more fun, because you will be fighting people who are there looking to PVP. You won't have to put up with being called a griefer for killing someone flying their mission. You won't have to put up with people who don't want to PVP at all. You'll be there with people who have the same goals you do. That would be a good thing.
Nothing good can come from having people forced to enter a PVP zone where they have zero interest in PVP, other than to give actual griefers a happy happy joy joy feeling.
Notch13 wrote:
We need more aces, make it just like mastery on the ground meaningless.
It's just as meaningless now as it would be without the PVP part of the missions. The notion that something "means" something is rather personal at best. What means something for you might be completely meaningless for someone else. In effect: Nothing really means anything other than what meaning you yourself give them.
HEck why even have tiers or anything skill related let everyone fly every ship and use all components from the start. Challenge is bad, fighting someone who can actually think rather than turn circles trying to ram you is too harsh.
It's not about challenge or a difficult mission, read a few posts earlier in this thread on this subject.
Its funny because I see the same folks whining about this all the time and most times its not even from experience or anything.
There's plenty of people talking from experience. Heck, we had a few threads full of 4-4-4-4 pilots and masters on the beta boards where the folly of these missions were stated.
Its all hypothetical hoopla. Cry long and hard enough and the devs will give in like they did with jedi. Lets dumb things down even more and water down the value of accomplishing something.
There is no value to it as it is. For you it might be, but for someone who hates PVP it's absolutely worthless. It's not about dumbing things down, it's about making the game more fun for everyone.
I think its all the people who worry about griefers who really have the issue. People think others think the way they do, so it tells more about you when you speak of these hypothetical fears.
That's rather amusing. You complain about people who think that other think the way they do, yet you defend a set of missions that force a specific playstyle on a group that wants nothing to do with it.
Bloodshead wrote:It pains me to think there are others out there workign hard to make sure that someone doesnt make master pilot by greifing ppl doing missions in Kessel. Devs take the mission to an instanced zone in Kessel at the least! The damage players can do is insane. Its either time for a pvp damage nerf or move the master mission away from Kessel as far as lightspeed can take itAnd for all you greifing n00blets that feel more l33t because they can totally gate someone from the mission. Flame away
If you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen. anyone who complains about a pilot mission, obviously isn't Ace pilot material. Go craft a stimpack, your jump to lightspeed ends here.
Message Edited by ThiefWannabe on 11-05-2004 11:17 PM
Notch13 wrote:
We need more aces, make it just like mastery on the ground meaningless. HEck why even have tiers or anything skill related let everyone fly every ship and use all components from the start. Challenge is bad, fighting someone who can actually think rather than turn circles trying to ram you is too harsh. Its funny because I see the same folks whining about this all the time and most times its not even from experience or anything. Its all hypothetical hoopla. Cry long and hard enough and the devs will give in like they did with jedi. Lets dumb things down even more and water down the value of accomplishing something. I think its all the people who worry about griefers who really have the issue. People think others think the way they do, so it tells more about you when you speak of these hypothetical fears.
Been playing since 97', have tried PvP in every single MMO on the market. From my own personal experience of over 7 years now I can state without question and extreme first hand experience about this issue. How long have you been playing MMO's?
Just because players do not like the same "challange" you find in killing other players does not mean we want it "dumbed down", it simple means we wish to enjoy and play this game just like you do. I respect your views, I respect your playstyle, and I even respect that you like PvP and find PvE unchallanging.... what I do not respect is your total lack of respect for my views, playstyle, and that I wish not to participate in PvP.
Your whole paragraph wreaks with the very reasons I do not like PvP. It is sarcastic, childish, degrading, and full of spite and malice. You try to convience us that griefers, trash talkers, and pk'ers do not roam abondent, yet you attack and degrade players on these very forums. I can understand your emotions on this issue but if you expect us to take your words seriously you need to respect those you are addressing.
I have yet to find a PvP experience I have enjoyed, no matter what promises where made or how they "tweaked" the game from being a pk fest. It all turns out the same in the end, and that is why I do not wish to partake in PvP. From my own personal experiences over the last 7 years playing MMO's and whitenessing first hand PvP.
Jibbrish wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
I've been through this in a couple of threads so far, but I'll repeat myself some more:
Here are the facts, facts that you really cannot deny:
Fact 1: These missions makes too many people do something they have no interest in doing, this can lead to no good.
Why? This is your opinion and nothing i've seen supports the supposition "this can lead to no good." Fact is piloting is a profession, in any profession there are things you have to do and in JTL the Dev's have actually added some storyline as well.
Because it can't lead to any good. These threads and many others are proof of that.What good can it lead to, oh mighty oracle of divine insight? Seriously, I'm asking here. The factare actually pretty simple: As soon as the first innocent PVPer gets called a griefer, it has gone too far. As soon as the first group of people decides that it's a valid option to camp Kessel to keep their opponents from mastering the profession, it has gone too far.
Fact 2: There is nothing that states that PvP instantly equals more difficult. If difficulty is the goal, it can be done just as well with a PvE solution.
And yet would this thread exist if this were easy? No. This thread exists because this mission is difficult and someone felt it was too hard and needed to whine about it.
You are for some unknown reason concluding that no PVP equals easy missions. That's not true. There was not that much PVP during beta (even if you most certainly had to subject yourself to a few attacks while looking for enough spawns or the 'vette) but we still had threads about this. It has got nothing at all to do with difficulty at all.
Fact 3: The missions currently serve no purpose. If it did, what would that purpose be?
All missions serve the same purpose; for the players to have fun and be challenged. Sometimes more one than the other but both should be there in each mission. That the difficulty stopped 'you' from continuing doens't mean there is a problem with the mission. It means you need to evaluate what you've done, your ship, your tactics and work out how to get past the obsticles.
Again: Difficulty has nothing to do with it. But let's analyze what you just said: "missions serve the same purpose; for the players to have fun [snip]". How are non-PVPers (who outnumber us PVPers) going to have fun during this mission? Difficulty has got absolutely nothing to do with the issue, this is about people having to subject themselves to things they would rather not do and the result thereof.
Fact 4: There won't really be anything bad that could come from turning these missions into pure PvE missions. Not compared to what the current missions will do.
Is the mission a PvP mission or thatthe mission isin a PvP zone and there are other players attacking you? Those aren't the same thing. Quite frankly it sounds like you need to get a few friends together to watch your back and do the mission again.
The missions are PVE missions in a free-for-all PVP zone PVP kills doesn't count at all, actually. You are just a target during the missions.. And here we have the ever so common "get help" reply, which is rather amusing since people will for the most part need friends to do the PVE part of the mission. Again: Turn the missions into pure PVE missions, nothing harmful can come from that compared to the current setup. Do people even have to argue over this fact, and if so, why?
This is a mission for master pilot and should be difficult.A master pilot should be capable of handling their craft in any condition or zone in space. If you can't, you're not a master and haven't earned the right to the title. That really is as simple as it can get and really should be self explanatory.
It's really not that hard to understand: PvP is not for everyone, nor should it be. There is no good reason to deny pure PvE players the master skill box (especially since the multipassenger ships are really only PvE ships). There is nothing that really can justify these missions either, since it would work just as well without the PvP. So really, before you start picking on the people in threads like these, ask yourself: "Why should these missions remain in their current shape?"
But you are not listening here: Difficulty is not the issue, PVE can be difficult too. This is about people having to subject themselves to things they dislike doing and what can come of that. And what can come of that? Well, it's not pretty, that's for sure.
Why would a master pilot have to subject themselves to PVP to be a master pilot? Can PVE pilots not earn the title at all?
People, this statement is too elitist, and there is no wonder that we have these discussion. The notion that you can only "earn" the title by PVPing kinda states that PVEers are inferior, which is not such a nice thing to say.