Jump To Lightspeed Archive
Thread: Petition: Take the master pilot mission OUT of Kessel :p
Vicotnik wrote:
I've been through this in a couple of threads so far, but I'll repeat myself some more:
Here are the facts, facts that you really cannot deny:
Fact 1: These missions makes too many people do something they have no interest in doing, this can lead to no good.
Why? This is your opinion and nothing i've seen supports the supposition "this can lead to no good." Fact is piloting is a profession, in any profession there are things you have to do and in JTL the Dev's have actually added some storyline as well.
Fact 2: There is nothing that states that PvP instantly equals more difficult. If difficulty is the goal, it can be done just as well with a PvE solution.
And yet would this thread exist if this were easy? No. This thread exists because this mission is difficult and someone felt it was too hard and needed to whine about it.
Fact 3: The missions currently serve no purpose. If it did, what would that purpose be?
All missions serve the same purpose; for the players to have fun and be challenged. Sometimes more one than the other but both should be there in each mission. That the difficulty stopped 'you' from continuing doens't mean there is a problem with the mission. It means you need to evaluate what you've done, your ship, your tactics and work out how to get past the obsticles.
Fact 4: There won't really be anything bad that could come from turning these missions into pure PvE missions. Not compared to what the current missions will do.
Is the mission a PvP mission or thatthe mission isin a PvP zone and there are other players attacking you? Those aren't the same thing. Quite frankly it sounds like you need to get a few friends together to watch your back and do the mission again.
This is a mission for master pilot and should be difficult.A master pilot should be capable of handling their craft in any condition or zone in space. If you can't, you're not a master and haven't earned the right to the title. That really is as simple as it can get and really should be self explanatory.
It's really not that hard to understand: PvP is not for everyone, nor should it be. There is no good reason to deny pure PvE players the master skill box (especially since the multipassenger ships are really only PvE ships). There is nothing that really can justify these missions either, since it would work just as well without the PvP. So really, before you start picking on the people in threads like these, ask yourself: "Why should these missions remain in their current shape?"
fav wrote:
Again, this is just a difference of opinion. I don't know one person in my guild who doesn't PvP. I don't know anyone on my server who hasn't PvPd before.
.....
So basically the idea is: I don't want to fight you unless I can beat you. That is the attitude I'm opposed to, and that is the reason I support keeping missions in PvP zones.
Well, of course! Most of the people I know ingame are also PvPers, because..... I hang out with PvPers. I have a couple RL friends who play (but don't PvP), and they say that I'm the only PvPer they've ever talked to, and think we're rarer than a full suit of mandalorian armor. Your frame of reference is colored by the environment you choose to put yourself in. The only reason I can see things from the other side is because I used to be a fairly outspoken anti-PvP person myself, in my previous MMORPG. 
And no, the idea is absolutely NOT "I don't want to fight you unless I can beat you". It's that they don't want to fight you. Period. Even if they knew they'd win, they just don't WANT to, because they know how it makes them feel and don't want to put another player in that position. That's how most people in MMORPGs play. Live and let live. I know it's a hard thing for a PvPer to understand, but that's simply how it is. It has nothing to do with fear of losing or unly wanting unfair fights. It's all about what people like and what they don't like. And I simply can't understand how a person justifies forcing other players to do things that they don't like and aren't interested in. It's just selfish behavior, period, and there's really no excuse for it.
Falin
fav wrote:
I'll just point you up to my last post cause I think it explains it. But to respond specifically: I wouldn't be the judge. Its a pretty clear test: if you can hack it against other live players then you're good enough to move on. Of course it doesn't hurt me that they have the title aside from the fact that I think the title should MEAN something. In SWG titles simply have no meaning. There is no indication of skill or prowess attached to any title in the ground game. There is no honor or respect for the profession of jedi anymore. All these titles mean is that you sat in front of your computer longer than other people, but it doesn't represent anything worth obtaining. Bragging rights? Hardly. I'd like, just for once, to feel that my blood, sweat, tears and time, have earned me something that isn't so easy for everyone to get. I really don't see how that makes me an elitist.
It's an elitist point of view because you're simply trying to deprive someone of something that you feel they don't deserve because they aren't as good as you. You said pretty much exactly that in your post. How does that NOT fit the definition of elitism?
Falin
Jibbrish wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
I've been through this in a couple of threads so far, but I'll repeat myself some more:
Here are the facts, facts that you really cannot deny:
Fact 1: These missions makes too many people do something they have no interest in doing, this can lead to no good.
Why? This is your opinion and nothing i've seen supports the supposition "this can lead to no good." Fact is piloting is a profession, in any profession there are things you have to do and in JTL the Dev's have actually added some storyline as well.
Fact 2: There is nothing that states that PvP instantly equals more difficult. If difficulty is the goal, it can be done just as well with a PvE solution.
And yet would this thread exist if this were easy? No. This thread exists because this mission is difficult and someone felt it was too hard and needed to whine about it.
Fact 3: The missions currently serve no purpose. If it did, what would that purpose be?
All missions serve the same purpose; for the players to have fun and be challenged. Sometimes more one than the other but both should be there in each mission. That the difficulty stopped 'you' from continuing doens't mean there is a problem with the mission. It means you need to evaluate what you've done, your ship, your tactics and work out how to get past the obsticles.
Fact 4: There won't really be anything bad that could come from turning these missions into pure PvE missions. Not compared to what the current missions will do.
Is the mission a PvP mission or thatthe mission isin a PvP zone and there are other players attacking you? Those aren't the same thing. Quite frankly it sounds like you need to get a few friends together to watch your back and do the mission again.
This is a mission for master pilot and should be difficult.A master pilot should be capable of handling their craft in any condition or zone in space. If you can't, you're not a master and haven't earned the right to the title. That really is as simple as it can get and really should be self explanatory.
It's really not that hard to understand: PvP is not for everyone, nor should it be. There is no good reason to deny pure PvE players the master skill box (especially since the multipassenger ships are really only PvE ships). There is nothing that really can justify these missions either, since it would work just as well without the PvP. So really, before you start picking on the people in threads like these, ask yourself: "Why should these missions remain in their current shape?"
Please go back and read the 48 bajillion posts on this board that explain why PvP != challenge for everybody.
Until you understand that, you just simply don't understand.
Falin
FalinMor wrote:
Jibbrish wrote:
This is a mission for master pilot and should be difficult.A master pilot should be capable of handling their craft in any condition or zone in space. If you can't, you're not a master and haven't earned the right to the title. That really is as simple as it can get and really should be self explanatory.
Please go back and read the 48 bajillion posts on this board that explain why PvP != challenge for everybody.
Until you understand that, you just simply don't understand.
Falin
Jibbrish wrote:
FalinMor wrote:
Please go back and read the 48 bajillion posts on this board that explain why PvP != challenge for everybody.
Until you understand that, you just simply don't understand.
Falin
Perhaps, wouldn't be the first time i didn't understand. However, let me take another stab at this. I don't PvP generally, i'm not a big fan of it in general and don't think it's been implemented well in the ground game, nor have i tried my hand at it in space. That said, unless i'm not understanding this, the mission isn't a PvP mission so much as it's in the /a PvP zone. Unless this isn't the case, i will stand by my statement above (which will apply to me as well) that a Master pilot must be at home in all zones and situations. If you aren't then you aren't a master pilot.
In other words, picking the pilot profession of your choice and grinding like a fiend shouldn't (and doesn't because of this mission) guarantee you a master title. You need to earn the title of master pilot by mastering your skills in each zone, including the PvP enabled ones.
Yes, the mission is IN the PvP zone, but doesn't involve PvP targets. And that fact makes the situation even WORSE.
As it is right now, the player with the mission gets NO benefit from fighting back when attacked. If they win, they've made no progress toward completing their mission, and the attacker can just repair up and come back without losing anything. If they lose, they have to start over. If the mission was to kill several players in Kessel, at least fighting back would give them some direct benefit to completing their mission. Even THAT would be preferable to what we have now.
But that's simply not the point. People are already camping Kessel, waiting to blast anyone who comes in to try to do the missions. It's only going to get worse from here on out.
What your saying doesn't make any sense from a gameplay experience, as good as it sounds. There is no good reason to force people into PvP situations when they don't want to be in such situations. None. The missions are already difficult as it is. Putting them in Kessel doesn't so much add difficulty to them as it adds the "why do I have to do this, I hate this playstyle" experience to it. There's no reason to do that. The only reasons there are for people to insist others must be forced into a playstyle they don't enjoy are purely selfish reasons, and they don't belong in an MMORPG.
Falin
I would agree that this mission needs to be moved out of Kessel.
This post could be a mile long if I posted everything I wanted to about PvP in space.
But, I think I will wait until more folks get to Tier 4 and above before commenting as it's just too early.
I would also hope that everyone eventually at least gives pvp a try just don't expect much at first. You get pod'ed sure but you get better with practice. Trust me I'm in need of more of it than most. I remember playing an online fighter flight sim once where the best pilot on the server was a REAL top gun Ace no kidding, let me tell you *It was humbling to watch this pilot school up to 20 other players at once... solo... until running out of ammo then fly back to base and dock all the time dodging fire and avoiding missles. Tons were learned from those beatings *rubs aching ego*
Jibbrish wrote:
Ok, i'm not a PvP'r.
Seriously.
My point, and i have to concede that it's based on reason, not experience, is that the Master title should be more than something we grind to, it should be difficult and it should mean you've MASTERED the profession. Can you master a profession by leaving out sizable chunks of it? Even it it's because we "do not want to play that type of game". That "type of game" is part of this game. You want the title Master than you need to master the game, in it's mirade forms. The fact is this mission isn't a PvP mission, it's in a PvP zone. To prove that you are a master you must be able to deal with that.
Your point isn't based on reason at all, it's based on opinion. There's no reason involved with the above statement at all, you're basically saying "they should have to do it because I think you should have to do it to be a master". Where's the reason in that?
Falin