Jedi Archive
Thread: the final straw
Specter2k3 wrote:
Actually most Jedi were not Warriors and were never likened to be called Warriors if some of u maggots were ever educated.
Yoda was a Diplomat not a Jedi Guardian as u might think, though he had 900yrs to Master Sabers, he never once resorted to violence unless it was others ppls lives at risk and even then he thought twice before useing the force.
George Lucas has made Different Jedi Classes that r not available on this stupidf game so u should educate urselfs that dont
know.
There Jplain Jedi healers just can usually just plain heal Cilgahl took 12hrs to cure the Imperial virus that struck Mon Mothma and couldnt perform as head of the Republic dureing that time, and the Jedi was no Warrior, and could barely use a Saber, though she can use it better now she strictly does Medicinal worl as a Jedi Knight.
Jacen Solo, in older yrs became a fruit loop and decided fighting wasnt much his style as much Anakin Solo's and and might
become another Jedi Knight Diplomat under the New Jedi Council.
Also under the Jedi Proffessions there is Agriculture where u just help revitalize a once virused landscape incappable of harvesting any food, water, or and good materials without killing the ppl of that Planet. The Jedi helped planets make their own food and materials and were Non-Warriors, and never fought in their life, even if they had a saber, and some didnt carry 1.
Now u'll probably want to know about the Jedi weapons Master Proffession but this is SOE and its off topic.
So, their is no reason in hell why a non-combatant cant in Real Star Wars Canon Join the Jedi Union.
Zarathustra wrote:
Diorchas wrote:Zara,The few times I've mentioned alternative ways to do it I've had people flame me. I've been called everything but a nice guy for suggesting that playing a Jedi means that you're expected to act like one. If you'd really like for me to draw up a proposal of sorts just to show that I'd rather be constructive than devisive I'd be happy to, but I won't post it here. That's just inviting all the idiots who'd see it only as a threat to their beloved status quo and would shout me down. Trying to bring original ideas to the table via the message boards is a lot like being a dissenting voice in Lord of the Flies. You just end up having people drop a rock on your head.See, it's just really difficult to try and have this discussion here though from my perspective. You obviously have an image of what jedi should be, but all I can do is try to help within the constructs of the game. The part that is standing out to me here though is the comment I bolded, because there's no game construct that ever has, or ever will, exist based on how people act. By and large, MMORPG's are supposed to be role-playing games, but the large base they sell to are non-roleplayers. Myself, I'm personally not a role-player, I'm a gamer, and I look at things from how the systems behind things work.
The only thing that is standing out to me from a gamer perspective, is you're looking at more of the KOTOR style of quests. Going through these chains of events and through your actions gaining light and dark side ranking as well as experience. This would be possible, however, not in SWG. SWG isn't based enough around quests to make someone's actions and responses work, also, from a gamer perspective, if I really wanted to be a light jedi I can just say the correct answers, but when I'm in the cantina, I'm free to act like a moron and hit on the dancers.
The only controling mechanism we have in an MMO is the experience, and in order for jedi to act like jedi, it would be up to every other single person on the server that the person interacted with to give that, which is a huge headache and grief/exploit waiting to happen.
Maybe I'm reading that incorrectly, if I am correct me.
Well, this whole thing has become an exercise in futility for me. I knew it would, but it's still disheartening.
You're arguing, basically, that you can't introduce a RP element to the current system because the current system doesn't support it. That's circular reasoning. Of course the current system doesn't support it... that's why the current system should be changed to INCLUDE a way for roleplayers to attain Jedi Mastery. Note, I did NOT say that this system would EXCLUDE a way for powergamers to do it. I only want a fair shake for the rest of the gaming population that's getting screwed under the current system.
As far as how it could be done, you could do it just like KotOR. Not just with Jedi quests and "right and wrong answers", but with consequences to other actions as well. If you're Light Side Jedi and attack something before it attacks you, there's some Dark Side points. If you accept a duel from anyone but Dark Side Jedi, that's Dark Side points. You get the point. You're right that you can't babysit everyone when it comes to player-to-player interaction, but there are still things you can do.
Diorchas wrote:
I'm not saying that the Devs should bend to my rules. I'm saying that they need to provide a way for people with varying playstyles to achieve Jedi Mastery. There's a huge difference there. I'm sorry, but it's the height of arrogance for you to say that providing a way for roleplayers to attain Jedi Mastery is "not good for the whole community." The WHOLE community includes roleplayers. Yet under the current system roleplayers and casual gamers are utterly snubbed. It is almost impossible for them to attain Mastery.
For you to say that the incoming system is one that doesn't give an advantage to any group of players is ludicrous. Combat characters can more easily get the village invite. Combat characters can grind through their XP more efficiently. The entire enforced PvP endgame for Jedi completely excludes other kinds of playstyle. This is only "fair" to your section of gamers, hence why you have trouble understanding why others don't think it's fair at all.
Naquiel wrote:No Diorchas it is that you dont understand, In SWG and all the other MMORPG's out there is you play the game and play the character like everyone else, If you want to roleplay, you get your character to the level you want then play your part. This is what your not understanding. If you want to RP a Master Jedi, you have to get the Master jedi to RP the character. This is the same in all the onling games i have played(DAOC, AO, AC, EQ, etc).And who says if your a casual play you cant become a master jedi? I know it can be done, it will take a wile of playing, but can be done.Im just going to say that you just dont want to fight to have a jedi, you want a jedi to be handed to you. But if that happens that eveyone will go down that road and get there jedi easy, then they will turn around and show that the servers can be the true jedi wars the devs dont want.So i wall say this again. RPing is a side game to play. You want to RP, then you have to gain your tools like everyone else. After you get what you want, you can RP all you want.
Naquiel, you're missing my point. I'm saying that under the current system you are forcing people who hate PvP to play that style of game in order to get to their ultimate goal. And from all accounts, there is a LOT of PvP that you need to do to get here. For a roleplayer or casual gamer, the realisation that we have to go through months (I'm making an assumption about the time frame here. I could easily be wrong) of gameplay that they despise is enough to make them just sigh and say "screw it." This is NOT good for the entire community. This SUCKS for half of the community.
Zarathustra wrote:
Diorchas wrote:
I'm not saying that the Devs should bend to my rules. I'm saying that they need to provide a way for people with varying playstyles to achieve Jedi Mastery. There's a huge difference there. I'm sorry, but it's the height of arrogance for you to say that providing a way for roleplayers to attain Jedi Mastery is "not good for the whole community." The WHOLE community includes roleplayers. Yet under the current system roleplayers and casual gamers are utterly snubbed. It is almost impossible for them to attain Mastery.
For you to say that the incoming system is one that doesn't give an advantage to any group of players is ludicrous. Combat characters can more easily get the village invite. Combat characters can grind through their XP more efficiently. The entire enforced PvP endgame for Jedi completely excludes other kinds of playstyle. This is only "fair" to your section of gamers, hence why you have trouble understanding why others don't think it's fair at all.See, but here's the dilema, if a system is added in for mastery, powergamers will always go to the path of least resistence. Any new system, that would be probably easier for the overall time to be comparable to a power-gamer under the current system, would lead to a large influx of masters.There is another game out there that has a built in system to cater more to the casual gamer, at least it's coming out, it's WoW. They have a very unique system that makes it so experience goes down the longer you are logged in, and you must rest for a period of time so you can get your full xp about. After 6 hours of playing, you might only be getting 30% of the experience you should be because you need to rest, whereas a casual gamer who only logs in for an hour, is at full experience their entire time logged in.The question that has to be asked: Is it possible to put in a different type of system to achieve jedi mastery without it being cycled through by powergamers 3x as fast as well? How would you suggest such a system to be implemented to make it fun so it can not be exploited?
You're right there, but only if you're introducing a system that can be ground through. If you add an avenue that must be roleplayed through (via dedicated, dynamic, GM-run roleplays) most powergamers will see grinding as the path of least resistance. Having such a system is very possible, it will just cost SOE money and man hours.
Do I think it'll ever happen? Naw. Because SOE isn't interested in making the best game they can. They're only interested in their profit margin. They have lost any desire to actually make this game represent the Star Wars universe. If they did they would pay a lot more attention to continuity and immersion.
Zarathustra wrote:
Diorchas wrote:
Naquiel, you're missing my point. I'm saying that under the current system you are forcing people who hate PvP to play that style of game in order to get to their ultimate goal. And from all accounts, there is a LOT of PvP that you need to do to get here. For a roleplayer or casual gamer, the realisation that we have to go through months (I'm making an assumption about the time frame here. I could easily be wrong) of gameplay that they despise is enough to make them just sigh and say "screw it." This is NOT good for the entire community. This SUCKS for half of the community.No, you're not forcing them to do anything. If you want to go into Jedi, you make the CHOICE of PvP. The Developers have always advertised that Jedi in SWG will be a Permanately PvP enabled class through Bount Hunter missions if nothing else (and there are no ways to get around this if you decide to go to the path of the jedi).
Putting the PvP controls in are the ONLY controling factor for the jedi population in the game now, and it's not even that huge of a factor. You have it so easy now to get to the point where a 4/4/4/4 Guardian had it before. Believe it or not, this IS the more player friendly system. No Jedi tef's, no permadeath, no crappy crystals from meatlumps that added +20 force cost to all specials, etc... Jedi were much more PvP enabled with the Jedi tef pre-publish 9 than they are now.
Diorchas, I'm sorry to say it, but Jedi in SWG is not for you.
Which, if you think about it, was the whole point of my original post. LOL
Forgot to respond to something in your post that made me take special notice...
There is no "choice." If you want to play a Jedi, you MUST PvP. Whether you enjoy it or not, whether you think it is contrary to SW canon or not. That is no choice. That is enforced gameplay. No way around it.
Diorchas wrote:
Naquiel wrote:
No Diorchas it is that you dont understand, In SWG and all the other MMORPG's out there is you play the game and play the character like everyone else, If you want to roleplay, you get your character to the level you want then play your part. This is what your not understanding. If you want to RP a Master Jedi, you have to get the Master jedi to RP the character. This is the same in all the onling games i have played(DAOC, AO, AC, EQ, etc).
And who says if your a casual play you cant become a master jedi? I know it can be done, it will take a wile of playing, but can be done.
Im just going to say that you just dont want to fight to have a jedi, you want a jedi to be handed to you. But if that happens that eveyone will go down that road and get there jedi easy, then they will turn around and show that the servers can be the true jedi wars the devs dont want.
So i wall say this again. RPing is a side game to play. You want to RP, then you have to gain your tools like everyone else. After you get what you want, you can RP all you want.
Naquiel, you're missing my point. I'm saying that under the current system you are forcing people who hate PvP to play that style of game in order to get to their ultimate goal. And from all accounts, there is a LOT of PvP that you need to do to get here. For a roleplayer or casual gamer, the realisation that we have to go through months (I'm making an assumption about the time frame here. I could easily be wrong) of gameplay that they despise is enough to make them just sigh and say "screw it." This is NOT good for the entire community. This SUCKS for half of the community.
Im not missiong your point, its that your not listening. PVP is only forced when you become a Kinght or higher. yes ppl playing jedi lower than knight will happen if they do something to be put on the BH terminals, And if you have read the devs posts from way back at the begining you would of read that playing a jedi would have to be tuff and you will be hunted(ie PVP). At the current timeframe where jedi are to be scarce, impliments in the game will make it tuff for ppl to play jedi(or did you forget that this is part of the background for your RPing).
You want to get a jedi without any kind of combat. But to do this the devs would probably have ppl grind mass items to sell, or play music nonstop for well over a year, or have to collect every piece of items from every location in the game and do every single non combat quest in the game.
But what i really see here is you came into this game a straight RPer(and i bet this is you first MMORPG). You expected that you could RP the whole way to master jedi with little combat and enjoy having fun playing that jedi. But the rude hand of awakening just poped up and slaped you hard saying that you have to do combat to play a jedi(which BTW was slapping ppl since befor the game launched). The rules of the game where posted for everyone to see and play by, but just resently you just found out that you just wasted all this time waiting to play a jedi, and now your complaining that you cant get one the way your playing now. Im sorry to say that you will have to make changes everyonce in a wile, and if you have to endure combat to get a jedi. You will have to do it.
The game is set up for ppl to RP, you just need to play the rules like everyone else to gain your tools. Once you get yout tools, then you can RP all you want, and have that non combat background you want, its just you cant get there by means of NON COMBAT.
Diorchas wrote:
You're right there, but only if you're introducing a system that can be ground through. If you add an avenue that must be roleplayed through (via dedicated, dynamic, GM-run roleplays) most powergamers will see grinding as the path of least resistance. Having such a system is very possible, it will just cost SOE money and man hours.
Do I think it'll ever happen? Naw. Because SOE isn't interested in making the best game they can. They're only interested in their profit margin. They have lost any desire to actually make this game represent the Star Wars universe. If they did they would pay a lot more attention to continuity and immersion.
Sorry, but give the devs a break here. You have people screaming for a year for more content. Yes continuity has been completely broken in this game, know why, so people aren't bored as can be. This is one of the most confined and restrictive periods this game is set in. If they don't keep on expanding what can be done in the game, this game will become stagnate and die.
I 100% gurantee you that this will happen as well in Middle Earth online after about 1-1 1/2 years. There is only so much that can be done in a confined story line.
And GM-Interaction would cost a ton. Across 20+ servers, 24 hours a day. This game is enormously huge. Way too large for something like this to be practical. It's not about money, it's that this just isn't practical for something as big as this game is.
Diorchas wrote:
Zara,
Forgot to respond to something in your post that made me take special notice...
There is no "choice." If you want to play a Jedi, you MUST PvP. Whether you enjoy it or not, whether you think it is contrary to SW canon or not. That is no choice. That is enforced gameplay. No way around it.
It's your choice to play a jedi. You can choose to play a fencer and do whatever you want. If you chose Jedi, you chose PvP.