Jedi Archive
Thread: Jedi in the Combat Upgrade
OohBo
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:05 am
#105
i definitely think that lightsabers still should have a unique, and unresistable (or at least very hard to resist) damage type.There iscontent to fashion ls resistant armor (mandalorian), they should also addcontent to make weapons that can resist lightsabers, and so are able to parry and deflect a lightsaber and allow damage mitigation from toughness mods. I'm not saying it should be impossible to resist ls damage, it should just be challenging and rare, to more accurately reflect SW lore and canon.
Catseye_Yellow
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:09 am
#106
I disagree I think all weapons should have a strength and weakness be it the CDEF or the 4th gen saber.. thing is I think that a strength to one should be weak to another defense.. same with Armor one area of strength one area of wekness.. much like the CU is doing.. you saying that for example Maldorian should be resistant to LS alone makes servers of that one type of armor much like comp is now
OohBo
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:13 am
#107
True, all weapons should have str and weakness... but the fact is this is Star Wars - yep, that's right. And lightsabers are unique weapons. I'm not saying that Jedi overall should be unbeatable. But for the game to more closely resemble the movies etc, lightsaber damage should remain unique - and unresistable, for the most part.
Catseye_Yellow
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:17 am
#108
OohBo wrote:
True, all weapons should have str and weakness... but the fact is this is Star Wars - yep, that's right. And lightsabers are unique weapons. I'm not saying that Jedi overall should be unbeatable. But for the game to more closely resemble the movies etc, lightsaber damage should remain unique - and unresistable, for the most part.
never will happen already they are so far off the movies it is not even funny... ep 4 had what 3 jedi? ep 2 or was it 1 dang both were boring showed Jedi getting killed by blaster.. thinking it was 2 which all they had to do was show Yoda lighting up and then roll credits
PeccaviCraft
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:36 am
#109
It's been said before they revamped Jedi, If the Devs didn't have the forethought tokeep the CU in mind when they made LS damage they must be really really um well, other wise I really don't think they will change this they said Star War's like blasters and swords etc are totally different from a Jedi Saber. I think we will keep LS damage and just reduce the amount of damage we can do since we will have one main pool to deal with but who knows we have several weeks untill this comes out, if they do boink this game with this CU they will lose to large of a Player base and I don't think that SOE will do that.
Catseye_Yellow
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:46 am
#110
PeccaviCraft wrote:
It's been said before they revamped Jedi, If the Devs didn't have the forethought tokeep the CU in mind when they made LS damage they must be really really um well, other wise I really don't think they will change this they said Star War's like blasters and swords etc are totally different from a Jedi Saber. I think we will keep LS damage and just reduce the amount of damage we can do since we will have one main pool to deal with but who knows we have several weeks untill this comes out, if they do boink this game with this CU they will lose to large of a Player base and I don't think that SOE will do that.
I think they are already on the verge of losing a large player base as it is now you are jedi or a stepping stone or a crafter.. Jedi do not need crafters..... so they must align every prof to give everyone a chance to survive.. every prof will have a niche to fill and every template will combine two profs to build it into an unique experience according to the players style.. keeping something that works against the balance is illogical... giving items that have no way to defend against is idiotic... so look for the revamp to bring the casual gamer pleasure and the feeling of being needed.. and the ability to find their niche.. it is not just for the Jedi not just for the BH not just for the commando this is an entire rewrite of the combat system for everyone... your thinking that the LS damage will remain is wishful thinking you base that on outdated information.. just read the ALL weapons will be Kinetic or Energy for your answer.. Key word there is ALL meaning each and every weapon.. so if LS is not going to be a lamp in the tina after the CU it will be Kinetic or energy and logic dictates it will be energy + elemental
StolenDiagram
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:54 am
#111
1 thing I'm worried about is, if lightsaber damage is removed as many believe it to be, will the jedi be finally recieving those "hidden" defenses that TH spoke of? To keep combat balanced prior to the CU, since Jedi had no defense against ANY weapon type, all combat armor, perhaps bar 1 or 2 PSGs had 0 lightsaber defense.
Now if lightsabers are reverting back to a "normal" damage type, the only fair thing to do would to either increase our LS damageinto the 000s OR to indeed provide us with those well needed damage resistances.
Pahaddino
Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:04 am
#112
Catseye_Yellow wrote:
PeccaviCraft wrote:
It's been said before they revamped Jedi, If the Devs didn't have the forethought tokeep the CU in mind when they made LS damage they must be really really um well, other wise I really don't think they will change this they said Star War's like blasters and swords etc are totally different from a Jedi Saber. I think we will keep LS damage and just reduce the amount of damage we can do since we will have one main pool to deal with but who knows we have several weeks untill this comes out, if they do boink this game with this CU they will lose to large of a Player base and I don't think that SOE will do that.
I think they are already on the verge of losing a large player base as it is now you are jedi or a stepping stone or a crafter.. Jedi do not need crafters..... so they must align every prof to give everyone a chance to survive.. every prof will have a niche to fill and every template will combine two profs to build it into an unique experience according to the players style.. keeping something that works against the balance is illogical... giving items that have no way to defend against is idiotic... so look for the revamp to bring the casual gamer pleasure and the feeling of being needed.. and the ability to find their niche.. it is not just for the Jedi not just for the BH not just for the commando this is an entire rewrite of the combat system for everyone... your thinking that the LS damage will remain is wishful thinking you base that on outdated information.. just read the ALL weapons will be Kinetic or Energy for your answer.. Key word there is ALL meaning each and every weapon.. so if LS is not going to be a lamp in the tina after the CU it will be Kinetic or energy and logic dictates it will be energy + elemental
QFE
Totaly agree in the sense that if CU want's to bring balance in combat, there has to be simple and healthy bases.
Going for a simple targetable bar will tremendously help. Simplify damage system with 2 main damage type is also a good step. Having Jedi not having a special damage type weapon is also a necessary step.
The high ends goal will go via simple and unilateral designs.If they start to redesign already with exceptions (ie LS damage), they will have a hard time achieving something.
Catseye_Yellow
Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:11 am
#113
umm the Docs said all weapons.. not all weapons except the LS so it is fact at this time not many believing
StolenDiagram wrote:
1 thing I'm worried about is, if lightsaber damage is removed as many believe it to be, will the jedi be finally recieving those "hidden" defenses that TH spoke of? To keep combat balanced prior to the CU, since Jedi had no defense against ANY weapon type, all combat armor, perhaps bar 1 or 2 PSGs had 0 lightsaber defense.
Now if lightsabers are reverting back to a "normal" damage type, the only fair thing to do would to either increase our LS damageinto the 000s OR to indeed provide us with those well needed damage resistances.
actually the rest of your statement will have to wait for more info to be released from the CU well except the LS damage since it will be Kinetic or Energy + elemental and I am sure the Jedi will get defenses against the base weapons but you will have to choose which of the weapons you personaly want defense from.. chose Energy and suffer penalities from Kinetic.. chose Knietic and suffer penalities from energy
gera
Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:15 am
#114
So Mr. StarNick,
Where were you when "Grenades" are not Thrown Weapon XP but Combat XP?
You can't blame Jedi because Jedi Wanna-be used them since you did not refuse them to be "combat xp" .
I used 22 proffessions to become Jedi, if all those disliked Jedi because it is a path, we have a big problem here...
Jedi padawan is a "large-scale" word. Because Knight is last stop.
LS damage is going from what you again hinted. Former Swordsman I am and I know Blast Damage's loss. And for my proffession mates who laughed at me for missing days Iwasusing Kinetic lightsabers, I sure know what it is.. But we had armor back then. Same chance of blocking shots or kicks. Now? Simply try2-3crystal snakeswithout your armor, and please then say 2000+ damage weapons how effective on your health going down.
StarNick
Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:32 am
#115
Just stopping in quickly once more:
gera wrote:
Where were you when "Grenades" are not Thrown Weapon XP but Combat XP?
You can't blame Jedi because Jedi Wanna-be used them since you did not refuse them to be "combat xp" .
How can I refuse that grenades should be combat xp, when Ive been a Correspondent for over a month....and when they've been pretty much combat xp since launch - plus the fact that the devs are not willing to change anything major in combat till the CU....how can you fairly blame anyone but the devs for this? Notice, I blamed the system...not the FS grinders -- what annoys the community concerning them is (in the past), quite a few grinders have treated our forums as if it were the FS forums...
I used 22 proffessions to become Jedi, if all those disliked Jedi because it is a path, we have a big problem here...
Jedi padawan is a "large-scale" word. Because Knight is last stop.
LS damage is going from what you again hinted. Former Swordsman I am and I know Blast Damage's loss. And for my proffession mates who laughed at me for missing days Iwasusing Kinetic lightsabers, I sure know what it is.. But we had armor back then. Same chance of blocking shots or kicks. Now? Simply try2-3crystal snakeswithout your armor, and please then say 2000+ damage weapons how effective on your health going down.
All I can really say is this: Things are changing...it doesn't give the CU any justice when you compare the current system with the CU system, they're basically two seperate beasts. Quite a few things that woulnd't fit in the system now, will be after the CU. And I know its tough when the devs release a vision document on a Friday, and no other information...its tough to speculate anything without comparing the current system.
Ill echo Psionic on this one...that the documents are coming, and patience is a virtue...
P__Day
Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:02 am
#116
Perhaps i was wrong in refering to you as stupid, but the matter a fact is that the posts made by you and Tanks, lead to quite a bit of paranoia on the part of jedi. after being on the front end of nerfs for well pretty much 12 months, the CU information seen in light of the current system seems like a major nerf, just from what blair wrote. Then in addition getting it from 2 correspondents was like adding a crate of protons to the fire, add in a batch of 400 nerf criers and 200 doom sayers and you got yourself a bunch of shaken up jedi, me included.
And please excuse me if i lack faith in the devs that brought us melee stackers, dot whores, 2.8k max legendary weapons and made all forms of combat dependant on being or having one of these.
oh BTW, there is a commando/bh on my server with a fairly decent track record of 1 shot incapping jedi with heavy particle beams and protons, those things hurt when you have no armor and no ranged defence and it doesnt get blocked. And weapon wise, jedi and commando are pretty equal, only weapon i used when i was one was the flamethrower, as a jedi the only viable saber is the doubleblade, and defencewise we both have 0
Message Edited by P__Day on 03-21-2005 04:04 AM
pervel
Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:16 am
#117
Catseye_Yellow wrote:
I disagree I think all weapons should have a strength and weakness be it the CDEF or the 4th gen saber.. thing is I think that a strength to one should be weak to another defense.. same with Armor one area of strength one area of wekness.. much like the CU is doing.. you saying that for example Maldorian should be resistant to LS alone makes servers of that one type of armor much like comp is now
Jedi were given a damage type that everything was vulnerable to at the same time as our armor was taken away and our damage-output was reduced. These changes were meant to balance each other out.It is entirely valid that we raise our concerns if the advantagesare taken away without also removing our disadvantages.
Also, Jedi is a 100% combat class. You spend 250 skill points on Jedi. Yet we only have one damage type. This might change in the CU of course. But we have also been told many times in the past that no major changes will be made to Jedi since "Jedi is already CU-balanced". So we have valid concerns here.
If they choose to remove LS damage from the game, they will need to make a lot of other changes to Jedi. Otherwise it is a major nerf in both PvE and PvP.