Jedi Archive
Thread: Focus Thread Force Powers
OK, here are some of MY thoughts.
1. Most people if not all primarily dont want POWERS to be as damaging as a Lightsaber for 1 simple reson, the time/ effort/ cost of making a quality saber. This is not a requirement for a powers users, and saber people fell they are cheated if powers does the same damage as LS. This is ridiculous to me. BUT to be objective, why not simply make powers damage be a derivitive of the users LS quality (I avoid saying DPS because as you progress in LS you get speed/ accuracy mods which increase the base dps) At this point in the game I would say more than 1/2 the Jedi have a pretty decent saber. The flip side is the crappy animations you get as a power user while holding a saber.
Maybe they can just change the damn thing so that if i attack with a force power, my saber does not automatically come on, unless I use a saber attack.
This should satisfy the people who dont want to feel cheated by all the time/ money spent getting that perfect saber, and the dark side people who want to use powers not a saber as the primary offense.
2. I really need a developer to explain in their own words how they justify the master level skills of a powers user. Force Breach which has a 50/50 chance to hit ( master level skill 50% chance of working, must be some sick joke) Advanced Knockdown? Are you kidding me? If your going to hit me with 3 levels of knockdown it better hit alot more, have a much cooler graphics set and maybe prevent them from getting up for 3 seconds or so. My opinion is DUMP it from master level. Force knockdown 1 shoudl be a single attack, force knockdown 2 should be an area around the jedi, but I completely agree that you should have the option of both, since you will grab all that aggro.
3. The master level box should have an advanced lightning skill.
4. The master level box should be where Drain Force is, can you get a darker power than sucking the force from someone?
5. I would bet 90% of the jedi in the game have the 4th row in enhancer, which means they all have improved force shield. Instant damage reduction for all.
6. Choke, Lightning and Force PUSH (ie knockdown in this game) are the MAIN moves known to all for a sith or dark jedi. And be honest, they all suck in this game. Even with the fixes in the last publish to choke, it still sucks. Lightning is soooo slow the dps is a joke. Remove all the damn warm up timers from powers, OR increase the damage considerably.
Baciacca do a real study based on the warm up/ cool down, etc timers and you tell us what the real dps is of powers. Almost all damage can be mitigated/ resisted and healed by infusion alone.
9. Choke should lift the target, render them useless for a few seconds (root) and unable to attack. Really what good is choke if infusion heals more over time than choke can damage?
10. WHAT THE HELL DOES WEAKEN DO? Has to be the biggest joke in the game, make it a ranged armor break already.
Well Im tired and this is a bit all over the place, but it stems from frustration. I am a Master Powers user, and I am trying very hard to keep it, but it always has been broken, and still seems to be so far back on the list, I just dont get it. Its so canon, how can they treat it like they do? And the graphics are so bad. Why do all the heals/ chokes make this big stupid arc? (and the pink choke is graphic is beyond stupid)
Tell me, force knockdown, I shoot a thick blue beam from my hand? umm, what is that? Make it an wave type graphic like the way air looks coming off a hot surface, kind of hazy in a cone that goes out like a wave towards the target. Get rid of the iron man repulsor rays pls
1. Dmg output - was mildly addressed in last patch but wasent set to what it should be, moves like force strike and force hit etc. only dealing around 500 dmg is unacceptable in the current pvp realm.
2. Force lightning -
a) For a move that is supposed to be our best dmg dealer it is still fairly weak after the tweaks the dev's have made to it.
b) Why does force lightning have a timer on it if it isnt more powerful than everyone else's regualar non timer moves?
3. Our state moves (except choke) - Force throw, mind blast etc.
a) Why do these moves only stick say only 1 out of 5 times these are jedi moves yet they are unreliable.
b) Why is it when they do stick the state only lasts 5 to 10 seconds that redicules and makes these moves worthless.
4. Force choke - why was a timer put on this when it isnt really that powerful for a master move.
5. Force breach -
a) Again why is this move so weak its allmost worthless when the jedi your fighting can just reapply the states as soon as you take them off.
b) Why doesnt this move take away avoid incap thats redicules.
6. Why have our non area attacks been taken away force kd etc.? Most these moves are unusable in pvp and pve if your trying to only fight one mob/player rendering half the force powers tree unusable.
7. Force Cloak - supposed to be addressed next patch so...
8. Force Weaken - What exactly is this move doing in the force powers tree if it does nothing? Its supposed to lower stats (which would be a very nice move) but it only lowers them to somthing you'd never notice and has no real use.
9. If im a master of the force then why does enhancer get force sheilds, force feedback, force absorb, force drain, channel force, etc. it seems to me the enhancer tree has a few moves that we should have.
Like why doesnt enhancer have Force feedback and then we would have force absorb etc. this is very unbalanced?
10. Why all theses timers on all our moves now? Enhancer doesnt have timers on its moves neither does defender.A master lightsaber can use saber moves faster than a non master lightsaber, why doesnt the same rule apply to master powers shouldntmasters be able to use powers moves faster than a powers dabbler?
Message Edited by Gamesanator on 07-09-2005 03:37 PM
/agree!!!
I dont understand the need for timers on the powers stuff when it far weaker than anything else? Power attack in sabers can do like 1200 damage, find me a time when lightning hits for any more than 1/2 that, but it has a timer?, and a self root since if you move it breaks...its just so confusing what the heck are the devs doing?
The only block powers need is to use that cloak.
NO other jedi template has such an extravagant possibility to escape or avoiddanger, especially sabers that is sitting in the thick of it 90% of the time. When the bh comes knocking you're probably around 30m from the chaotic core already. Burst those extra few meters as the Dots comes closer, and you've already escaped. I REALLY envy you all that skill, but my template doesn't have enough skillpoints to use it. But no.. powerusers wants defenses without defender, more power, more speed, more this more that, but without the pesky inconvenience of tanking, or do you think all the mls's just stand around at 32m using advanced saberthrow all day?
Now, I realize powers needs tweaking since so many are complaining, but I honestly do not think powers should get nuker capability.
Enhancer is all about well, enhancing yourself, saber is mainly about hurting as many as possible withneglible defense on its own, healer is just lost, powers.. lacks direction.. seems only 1/4 of the profession is specifically damageoriented, so it's probable mainly a crowd control profession, but some sort of communication from SOE about it would be super, as not to get all scatterbrained by the users that has very different opinions of what powers should be like, because it varies from head to head.
Remove the snare. This move should not be a snare, rather it should be an Armor Break. Force Weaken should weaken my opponent! Simple
Force Breach
The force cost of this move needs to be lowered to half of what it currently costs if the odds of stripping a buff remain the same, or it needs to apply a de-buff preventing the afflicted from re-applying their lost buffs or any new ones for X amount of time (15secs?)
Force Strike/Lightning
Remove the Zip Lines. If a Master Powers user must rely on their mobility and ranged strikes, why then am I locked in place for X many seconds in order to shoot?
*and on the same subject, lessen the animation threshold, so that I am not stuck while attacking*
Force Knock Down/Intimidate
Access to the previous versions of these abilities is needed. Access to both versions of skills so that a M Powers user can choose to use a Single or AoE. Currently, if we use these moves in a populated area (Dantooine, Dathomir, etc) we draw everything on us. Allow us to have both versions of these skills
Also, increase to the Intimidate Duration State.
Force Choke
This move should be s snare or even a root for the duration of the DoT.
Mind Blast/Force throw
Well, until they fix states, these are useless skills, as the damage is low. Increase the damage on these moves please.
ADD-IN: Force Reflect
This move would allow the user to use the force to reflect some of the (melee, range non-force) damage done back at the opponent.
Grant an Improved version and an Advanced Version (at Master). The amount it reflects back and the percentage at which it reflects back should go up with each version. This should be a toggle move.
K here's my take:
1. Animations need to be sped up.
2. Add an Advanced Force Lightning Single to the Master Box with a zip bar and a self root. Remove zip bar and self root from all other Lightning attacks.
3. Choke needs to be able to do damage more viable against Defenders and also needs self root removed.
4. Overall damage needs to be increased.
5. Force Weaken needs to be turned into an Armor Break
6. Intimidate needs a Single and Area version. Also needs to have a longer effect.
7. We need a SINGLE KD along with our Area KD. Also, change the animation to a wave of rushing air or something.
8. Correct animations need to work all the time not just when holding a ranged weapon.
9. A few have already mentioned variations on it so I'll mention mine as well: NEW MASTER ABILITY: Drain Life. Works like Drain Force but affects the opponents Heath bar.
10. Allow Masters to wear profession titles like Master Force Wielder and such (same for all other professions in fact.)
11. Reduce action/mind/force costs to specials
I did some testing today to see the damage comparisons between Force Hit and Saber Hit and Improved Lightning Single and Improved Power Attack. This is what I found:
Force Hit on a Master Defender does the same damage as a 450 max dmg saber doing saber hit (without armorbreak).
Improved Lightning does about the same dmg as Impr Power Attack with a 650 maxdmg saber (without armorbreak).
With Improved ArmorBreak and the same saber, the PowerAttack does about 300 more dmg than Lightning.
Seloth wrote:If we are going to agree that sabers should do a bit more damage because of the pearls, and we are NOT going to ask for a nerf for any of our brothers and sisters in the Jedi.here is my suggestion:a. remove that extra 35% damage reduction in PvP, we will still not have the dps of a mls, but we will be viable.b. remove the warm up or set it to equal to the time it takes for saber throw to work.c. make it so that at master level our ranged attacks go out to 50m. (this might make some people wince, but it this would give us a reason for the skill points and xps costs to master out and still not have a dps on total par with sabers, but we will have a class defining difference. and frankly as it stands now a MBH/Mrifles do not have to worry about getting any closer than 40m from any jedi. this would add a bit of a variable to the jedi v. bh issue).shrug just an idea.
I agree Powers range should be beyond 32m. However, that leads to a problem with the visibility system. Visibility is now only earned within 32m. If Powers has a range of 50m, we could kill NPCs all day without gaining any visibility. So, the devs would have to adjust the way visibility works, and I know NOBODY (except perhaps some BH
) wants the visibility range increased to 50m, and we have seen the chaos that occurs everytime they try to tweak visibility.... it always gets broken horribly and takes months to get fixed.I'll stick with 32m
Baciacca wrote:
nicmo wrote:
Powers should not be a replacement for Sabers, thus I don't believe it should ever be quite *AS* powerful as a saber assault. However, currently it's not viable in such a duel against pre-cu and pure post-CU sabers. My suggestion is to lower the force/action costs as sabers got, and either increasing the damage dealt or increase the damage rate (lower the timers).
I agree but Force Powers should be able to hold its own with the use of KD, Roots, Snare, and other effects that it should have. Force powers is gimped because of the lack of viable options and that is why everyone wants it to have more damage. The damage would not be needed if the profession could do more and didnt have certain "zip" bars.
Well, first off, the Dev's have stated that Powers are supposed to be a "viable alternative to Lightsaber". They're currently not, but that may very well change once the FRS is re-enabled. The warm-ups on all abilities are annoying as all getout, but they appear to be here to stay(Thanks EQ/WoW).
Baciacca wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
You know, I hope they don't keep powers "Darkside". Even though RP / Story wise it is "considered" a darkside template, not everyone wants to wield a stupid glow stick...regardless what role they play in for the GCW. Powers should not be limited to only "Imperials / Darkside" jedi.
Baciacca wrote:
thus hopefully keeping Powers as the "Darkside" ability.
As far as keeping them to the darkside I ment FRS bonus wise. I think Light Jedi should be able to use Force Powers BUT I think that only Dark Jedi should get the mod bonuses.
Sorry mate, but I've got to disagree to the fullest on this one. Making whatever FRS mod's to Powers a Dark Jedi only thing is only asking for trouble. Personally, I would love to be a Light Jedi Powers player. I plan on testing it once FRS is tested out(assuming they rotate the servers and enable the frogs) and may very well respec to some type of "toys" template. If the Dark Siders are the only ones that get the FRS mods, why should I go that route? Besides, a Wookiee Imperial Dark Jedi? Well, I have seen it, but that's just not me.
Finally, Baciacca, you are our Correspondant. You are the players conduit to the Devs. From what I've been reading in some of these posts, it seems as though you're trying to use your position to make the Jedi in SWG into what you believe they should be. To me, that ain't cool. If I'm wrong about it, I apologize in advance. It's simply the feeling I'm getting based on some of your posts.