Jedi Archive
Thread: Why don't people understand? It's not meant to be easy.
rhaspede
Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:33 am
#92
It is you, the player, and the ones who go out and publish SPOILERS to every single thing in the game that make it easy.
EXCELLENT POINT!!
I have a problem with the fact that a master level crafter cannot simply "play the game" and let xp accumulate. Because a master level crafter only crafts what they can sell, and does almost all of it in a factory, we get 0 xp for "playing the game". We have to stop "playing the game", and start "grinding the game" again, just like novices.
Okay, here we have a legitamite gripe about the new system. I didn't know that crafting xp was this way. So in this instance, we have a problem and a recommended solution. This is what I'm looking for.
I could probably real off a few more ideas but this is basically the basis of most, CONTENT... nobody is against difficulty (which this system for jedi isn't it's just sooooo boring) but we want something to stimulate the mind, yes give us quests to do, yes make them timelocked on a cycle, yes make them as hard as you like... no dont make it all grinding, make us grind maybe 2 boxes from a branch and unlock the other 2 by completing some kind of really dificult quest.
Another idea that I think has merit. The only problem with making the boxes unlockable simply by completeing a quest is stated in the aboe quote. Once someone figures out how to do it, the solutions will be all over the net and everyone will just be following steps 1-whatever to complete the quest. How do you keep this from happening? Maybe a quest comparable to the Corellian Corvette or the Death Watch Bunker would be a good idea, but all I mostly hear about those places is people complaining that they're too hard. But the current quests are too easy? Make up your minds people! I like the idea of using very involved, difficult quests to unlock, but I worry that power gamers will "grind" their way through the quests the same way they "grind" their way through xp.
Sycho2k
Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:02 am
#93
rhaspede, thanks... finally someone with some constructive argument not just flames
as for the quest idea i think the only way to do it really is to make people hav to grind maybe 500k FS xp per branch and do quests for the rest, and i do see the problem and the way around it is to keep updating the quests, make new quests as the game progresses. surely for a company making so much from all us paying customers it would be simple task to make say 2 quests a month, add these to the quest database for the FS tree progression, after a few months they have say 6 quests, now they can start repeating a quest here and there while still adding more as they go. maybe someone else ha a better idea on how to implememnt this sort of quest based idea. the one main problem is no matter how good the idea seems i very much doubt any of us are going to see it happen. unfortunately i think even JTL isn't going to save the SWG, maybe get players to stay a little longer but with huge quest based MMORPG's just around the corner i think for me its just something to do now. unless i see change soon then The Matrix Online is the path i will choose
iskareot
Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:34 am
#94
CHOICE!!!
This is so easy, some seem to not get it...DONT LIKE IT? DONT FREAKING DO IT? -------
A guy goes into the Doctor's office and says "Doc it hurts when I do this".... Doc says - "Dont do that then"....
QUIT CRYING AND PLAY THE GAME... my gosh all the shoulda coulda wouldas... If I could sell them... Id be rich,,
Sycho2k
Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:56 am
#95
iskareot wrote:
CHOICE!!!
This is so easy, some seem to not get it...DONT LIKE IT? DONT FREAKING DO IT? -------
A guy goes into the Doctor's office and says "Doc it hurts when I do this".... Doc says - "Dont do that then"....
QUIT CRYING AND PLAY THE GAME... my gosh all the shoulda coulda wouldas... If I could sell them... Id be rich,,
but you yourself don't seem to get it, there is nothing else left to aspire to for people who done most everything in game, now jedi is basically the final step. with no new content appearing for other professions the game has become based around jedi. try reading the posts properly and read the arguments before you flame, itsn nothing to do with the dufficulty or time, coz basically its real easy to grind 200k FS xp in 1 buff, but people want content, storyline, excitement... all the things someone who posts something like the aboveobviously hasnt grasped the concept of yet
The way things are headed I would say you can play the game with what mindless people will be left before long as all the intelligent people will have left for something more "role playable"
LostSoul54
Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:11 am
#96
i know its not ment to be easy but its not ment to be impossible either. yet it is 
Obeowa
Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:14 am
#97
quoting rhaspede:
What exactly do you consider "content"? What would you like to be doing to keep you interested in the game?
You say the theme parks suck and nobody even reads what the npc's have to say anymore because they know that all it is is talk to npc, run 2km, kill random npc in two shots, run back to initial npc. So it's YOU who doesn't give the story of the theme park any attention. Okay, that's fine if you feel that way; how SHOULD the theme parks work? I suppose you didn't like the monthly story arc either right? Cause it's basically the same concept. So how SHOULD the story arc have been handled?
Ok, you didnt read my earlier post's.... I did like the monthly story, thats the point. Thats the only time there has been missions with multiple chat options. The reason the themeparks suck is because its the same again and again and again. All i want is real content, meaning i CHOOSE what to say, and that effects how that mission plays. For example, instead of mindless run 2k, kill, run back, maybe jabba's cronies could give you a mission to kill a thug and retrieve a disk. I dont want to have that as the only option. RPG's need content. carrying on the example, when you reach that thug, you could kill him and loot, or you could threaten him, making him give you the item in exchange for his life and something of value. This would change the direction of follow on quests, like what if jabba finds out you spared this guy's life? The story arc included this kind of, you had to actually listen to the npc's and discover what they wanted, because one wrong term to the thug you visited could turn you into bantha fodder!!!
And no i dont mean grind 2mill xp to get extra conversation options devs
What exactly do you consider "content"? What would you like to be doing to keep you interested in the game?
You say the theme parks suck and nobody even reads what the npc's have to say anymore because they know that all it is is talk to npc, run 2km, kill random npc in two shots, run back to initial npc. So it's YOU who doesn't give the story of the theme park any attention. Okay, that's fine if you feel that way; how SHOULD the theme parks work? I suppose you didn't like the monthly story arc either right? Cause it's basically the same concept. So how SHOULD the story arc have been handled?
Ok, you didnt read my earlier post's.... I did like the monthly story, thats the point. Thats the only time there has been missions with multiple chat options. The reason the themeparks suck is because its the same again and again and again. All i want is real content, meaning i CHOOSE what to say, and that effects how that mission plays. For example, instead of mindless run 2k, kill, run back, maybe jabba's cronies could give you a mission to kill a thug and retrieve a disk. I dont want to have that as the only option. RPG's need content. carrying on the example, when you reach that thug, you could kill him and loot, or you could threaten him, making him give you the item in exchange for his life and something of value. This would change the direction of follow on quests, like what if jabba finds out you spared this guy's life? The story arc included this kind of, you had to actually listen to the npc's and discover what they wanted, because one wrong term to the thug you visited could turn you into bantha fodder!!!
And no i dont mean grind 2mill xp to get extra conversation options devs
Obeowa
Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:25 am
#98
Quoting iskareot:
CHOICE!!!
This is so easy, some seem to not get it...DONT LIKE IT? DONT FREAKING DO IT? -------
A guy goes into the Doctor's office and says "Doc it hurts when I do this".... Doc says - "Dont do that then"....
No, the doc would say "Damn, that needs fixing. Take this medication"
now just need the devs to give us our medication...
CHOICE!!!
This is so easy, some seem to not get it...DONT LIKE IT? DONT FREAKING DO IT? -------
A guy goes into the Doctor's office and says "Doc it hurts when I do this".... Doc says - "Dont do that then"....
No, the doc would say "Damn, that needs fixing. Take this medication"
now just need the devs to give us our medication...
Nails1
Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:21 pm
#99
The whole game has devolved into Grindfest mania.
/agree.
Some people say "Jedi should be rare soit should be hard to achieve".
There is a difference between hard and tedious. I guess if you somehow feel that me shooting 24000 quenkers is "what must be paid" in order to get a Jedi (after all the profs and waiting a year) ... the only problem I have with this is lack of content doesn't support another alternative.
sadly,
RamhornSWG
Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:57 pm
#100
I'll tell you why... I have been a Chef for 9 months.. over the course of thoes 9 months ,after getting master, I have accumulated 30k exp... A crafter does not get exp from making schematic, nor from making items in a factory... now if I was to do what you said, go about normal play and turn in exp as you get it, it would take me 30.75 years to get 1 tree of Crafting Mastry...
Hehe hes got a good point for the "just play the game! crowd "
SilentSlayer
Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:36 pm
#102
Honestly, why did they even come up with the FS xp type anyway? Because they wanted to hide the fact of what a huge grind it was! You see 450,000 at that top box and think that won't be so bad, it's just like a regular profession...until you realize you need to multiply that times 30. THEN when that 450,000 becomes 13.5 million you realize how ridiculous that is. If that is not a GRIND I don't know what is. The system was supposed to be quest-based. Instead, the developers have changed from holo-grinding to xp-grinding, the only difference now is you know what you need to do, but it's going to take 10 times longer!Seriously, I am not familiar with other MMORPGS but is there anything that compares in other games to this?
They should remove the FS xp type and change it to just combat, crafting, weapons etc xp like a normal prof. Heck, if the developers would just change the FS exchange rate to a flat 3-1 rate all the way around, I would be happy! They've already put in the gate with the different phases which I don't mind...as long as I'm not grinding down my fingernails on the mouse.
It will take me approximately3.5 months at 1 million xp a day and $41.99 during that time just to get Initiate based on the trees I want
Is there anyway I can just plop down the $41.99 now and skip that whole ugly process in between? I've been playing since day 1 and did the hologrind so I think I've earned it Seriously, it will take the devs that much time just to introduce some new "content" that the only thing to do until then will be to grind away...
Is there anyway I can just plop down the $41.99 now and skip that whole ugly process in between? I've been playing since day 1 and did the hologrind so I think I've earned it Seriously, it will take the devs that much time just to introduce some new "content" that the only thing to do until then will be to grind away...
Cheesejaguar
Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:01 pm
#103
Generally im thinking that Jedi is supposed to be worked for. And as we all know, in the Star Wars universe, Jedis got where they are by mindlessly destroying the wildlife on every planet....right?
It should be totally quest driven, with 6 quests, 6 weeks apart. Each quest will require you to be a certain profession, Say a combat one for the first quest, master artisan for the next, chef next, ranger, etc. Jedis are not supposed to be sadistic people who enjoy hunting things constantly for fun.
If the devs want to leave it the way it is, the following need to be changed:
-Doctor's XP cap, the current exchange rate is fine, but the cap is promoting hyper tumbling in the village, and thats not what the devs had in mind.
-Either shorten the phases, or give you a choice of what skill you want to unlock in that phase.
-Make a really challenging quest to get into the village in the first place...devs can be creative there, the old man thing is annoying
-Make mastering a profession count towards 150k+ FS xp, and get rid of the P10 unlocks. This would make the grind a bit more diverse, instead of having a Bio engineer constantly getting DNA samples or something for 6 months to become a jedi.
My main point is that its not hard, just tedious, and only sadistic people would enjoy it. Im going to go through all the hard work, and it may not be fun, but It will be the ultimate goal to achieve, and to be able to say you've done it.
It should be totally quest driven, with 6 quests, 6 weeks apart. Each quest will require you to be a certain profession, Say a combat one for the first quest, master artisan for the next, chef next, ranger, etc. Jedis are not supposed to be sadistic people who enjoy hunting things constantly for fun.
If the devs want to leave it the way it is, the following need to be changed:
-Doctor's XP cap, the current exchange rate is fine, but the cap is promoting hyper tumbling in the village, and thats not what the devs had in mind.
-Either shorten the phases, or give you a choice of what skill you want to unlock in that phase.
-Make a really challenging quest to get into the village in the first place...devs can be creative there, the old man thing is annoying
-Make mastering a profession count towards 150k+ FS xp, and get rid of the P10 unlocks. This would make the grind a bit more diverse, instead of having a Bio engineer constantly getting DNA samples or something for 6 months to become a jedi.
My main point is that its not hard, just tedious, and only sadistic people would enjoy it. Im going to go through all the hard work, and it may not be fun, but It will be the ultimate goal to achieve, and to be able to say you've done it.
Sseli
Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:58 pm
#104
In Human Motivation 101 we learn that you get what you reward people for. Example: you run a call center and you tell people that if they keep their average time per call to less than a minute they will be rewarded. Unfortunately,people get slick and start transferring calls or "accidentally" dropping calls to prematurely end tough calls and keep their average low.Ever wonder why you get crappy service whenever you call in to a call center? Managers believed that they would incent people to improve their work but this unexpectedly resulted in poor customer service and pissed off customers.
In this game, people were rewarded for hologrinding with jedi and free character slots. This led to lots of bad side effects. The new system is no different. We will now just reward people to use third party software, afk tumblers, etc. Point is, people will find a way around these artificial barriers. I believe that this game generally does not have overly intriguing content but this new system only discourages roleplaying or playing at all. The best content in this game comes from roleplayers themselves only now people are too busy grinding to even "play" the game. Economies are also beginning to be adversely affected,and it is likely that thiswill have lingering effects beyond the next few weeks.
Here are some things that I think would have made the jedi quests more interesting:
1.) Have a series of missions that revolve around the creation of a lightsaber, perhaps with random rare spawns that jump when the server resets. This could lead to missions on how to tune crystals (how does everyone automatically know how to do this) with the possibility of destroying the crystals and even getting wounded. Have parts of the missions that walk you through the assembly of the components where you need to do certain things in a sequence and then "tweak" some settings to get it to operate properly.
2.) Have missions where you must talk to jedi masters that spawn randomly and gain knowledge from them so that you can answer a series of questions delivered by the old man...they could have a lot of fun with this with everything from zenlike messages to what certain powers do, to famous Star Wars movie quotes. Have a number of questions so that they are random and it will take a while for game guides to appear.
3.) Have people find a mentor with whom they can train based on their faction and light or dark preference. This could lead to a series of quests that are more appropriate to whether you chose light or dark (senseless killing works fine for dark jedi but light should definitely follow another path like resolving tense political conflicts through diplomacy or something). These missions coulduse training sabers togain actual force sensitive xp (very minimal and the sabers should totally suck). Have intervention questswhere members of the opposite side try to sway your opinion and test your resolve. Have actions that are not "in character" make it take even longer to achieve padawan.
These are just a few ideas. Would they be much harder to implement than "drive through these 160 random wp's". Of course. Could game guides allow people a free pass through the quests? They always have and they always will. For this reason thestages should be gated and could even be longer waits than what we have now IMHO. That would allow more time to code and debugeach set of quests. Do I think it will happen? No way.I think JTL is a make or break release for this game and Icannot imagine that SOE does not see it this way as well which is why they are devoting all of their resources to it before other critical fixes. I have seen so many great ideas on the boards that have not been implemented and this would probably be too labor intensive. I just wished they had used more of the time wasted already towards something like this.