Jedi Archive
Thread: TH & Tiggs, Please Read Visibility Griefing
He wasn't talking about being out in the boondocks, he was talking about dueling. In that example, there are clearly people standing around watching.
silversaber wrote:
KammaRocca wrote:
iosskman wrote:
BHs please go post on your forums. I dont see what is so cool about giving a jedi vis? If someone asks u to move 34m away for a duel why would you insit on saying NO I WANT TO STAY HERE...does it make a differance? Only NPCs should generate vis and to make it combat for taking it away from players all u do is increase NPCs in cities.
If you don't want vis, why would you insist on doing something that generates visibility while there are people standing around?
What if he was justexping with his friends in the boondocksand the BH later came and started watching?
If he has to stop exping because of this, then when CAN he exp?
Message Edited by KammaRocca on 10-03-2005 12:58 PM
One and All,
Well I think we have situation that was not intended?..chuckle love that catch all phrase. Generateing Vis, hmmm I believe the standard answer to all New Jedi is stay off the terminals by not generateing Vis, has been for quite sometime. Now we activly have some folks generateing Vis on another character that is activly trying not to get vis...hmmm. While not an exploit or a offence, I can call it a tactic just like cloaking and running was a tactic. It still falls into a couple of catagories that someone at SOE had better start figureing out how to control or there will somemore ghost towns.
First, Vis is a mess of guesses and trial and error mostly, 60 m 32m, 45 m , vehicles, droids, dead pc's, buildings generate Vis as far as anyone knows, only known thing is that anything with more than two legs does not. So someone activly tries to not get on the terminals and yet someone hires "Vis Collectors" for lack of a better word, those who for a price generate vis on any paddie and Jedi for the sole purpose of adding to the terminals. We now have a clear situation where the door for PvP has to swing in both directions, the balance of power is in the BH's hands and the jedi has not a single choice except to take his money else where. The question is , is that what folks want to drive people to another game and hit the delete key?
when someone feels helpless, frustration builds and then anger will set in. After that it's all down hill, if someone doesn't address this soon the hunter/prey scenario will break and like all dams it will be ugley in the aftermath. Personally if someone is trying to limit Vis and acting in a practical way that makes the attempt to hide their jediness, to hire someone to purposely genrate Vis, is just plain bad manners, its the tactic of the griefer, someone who want to win at any cost. If that is what, the Dev's want then let the door swing both ways, if PvP is what everyone treuly wants , most cases folks just want an advantage.
Illrigger wrote:
This weekend while working on my crafter, my guild channel picked up a disturbing new trend. Apparently some BHs out there are actively seeking groups that are grinding with Jedi in them and justhanging out within visibility range. The Jedi players have two choices, either to stop their play session, or to gain visibility that the BH who's standing there can later use to hunt them.
While this obviously qualifies as griefing (purposly disrupting another player's gameplay), it also brings up a serious flaw in the visibility system. To be balanced, BHs simply should not be able to generate visibility. There's no other class in the game that can basically create their own PVP targets, nor should there be. However, the flaw doesn't stop there. Even if BHs couldn't generate visibility, they could have their friends and alts do the same thing.
What really needs to be done is a cap on how much visibility a player can give another player within a 24-hour period. This will still allow BH's to do their thing, but will limit the damage they can do. Given that we don't really know fully how visibility works, this may already be in place. If it is, excellent, and the BH's are wasting their time. If it isn't, it needs to be.
Comments?
We got the odd idiot who does stuff like this. What bothers me more on starsider is the amount of credit farmers.... it's getting stupid, they leave NPCs spawned in the wild, fly through you etc. I've reported them over and over again without them being banned..
Akel wrote:
Jedi were warned with a little email when they unlocked that using their abilities in front of others was dangerous... get over it!
They removed vis from groups... it would be stupid to think that your enemy would not generate visibility. If they want to watch you then move on somewhere else, it you can't do that, then deal with the visibility... or go back to playing nintendo after mommy and daddy finish feeding you dinner.
Not anymore. we get no such email.
Yenu wrote:
btw, why exactly are you afraid to die. Most spin groups will make up a non-completed templates lost xp within 30 mins.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know what you are talking about. He must be a level 80 jedi with people he knows and meet in the game all the time, for other player it takes hours to back to positive number. If you are not a jedi don't post things like this. You don't have a glue like a bounty hunter who told me he will go to the village to talk to a npc there to get force aura.
lol, I have a Jedi but I'll admit I did it the old way. Saying I don't have a clue???? How much of a clue do I need when I watch my guilds spin groups slay 30-40 mobs in 5 mins??? I'm sorry you don't know how to grind, maybe people on this forum can give you the clue you need. It is not hard to get xp in the current combat system as long as you have a group.
OMG, all you nublet make me sick! NERF this, Change that! NEWS FLASH! Getting Jedi is the easiest it's ever been! The longest part of a jedi's grind now, is waiting for the village shift! Most New jedi have not spent months upon months getting jedi. They haven't put in probably 1/10 the time getting their jedi as I had to. IMO, if you want to slow down the jedi population, switch the jedi grind back to the old system! Make the jedi grind a solo thing! Watch all the new jedi quit! You've got the jedi grind down to a 2 week grind! Be thankful for that or else watch the DEVs "FIX" the grind to 2 months.
KRAKEN666 wrote:
the group visibility needs to be based on what you kill, not what you are standing near when you kill. if you are holo farming then yeah, you have to kill stormies or a loot dropping npc to do it. but if you are just hunting pickets then, if people want to vis you, like players that drop from the group mid battle, does not need to give u vis. bh will use their alts to get in a group and then drop mid fight to gather vis, while the bh is near a terminal on the same planet. thats a cheat and an exploit. so the vis needs to be based on what you kill, not the closeness of others.
Dlek_Krego wrote:
Yes, I do believe a player city is "out of the public eye."... Cuz being in a player built city, the only "public" I would have to deal with much is my fellow guildmates and the occasion SF squad I'd be helping to defend our bases from.
But if I am in MY GUILD'splayer city, then I am not thrusting my powers down the public's throat by PvP'ing or dueling where the GENERAL public convenes, now am I?
If all player cities were the sole property of a single guild... They're not. A player city, depending on size and location, can still be very much public. For example, on our server, there's a crafters only player city on Lok. Basically, it has nothing but vendors and assosciated malls. The traffic then is, well, anyone who wants to buy something. It may not be cheap all the time, but if you want something, someone in that town is likely to have it. Dueling infront of the shuttleport were people from all factions, guilds and so on and so forth arrive at regular intervalls is very much in the public eye. Heck, you're more likely to run into the "public" there than you are in Bela Vistal.
Player cities does not have to equal a guild's personal playground, it can - and does - act like an in-game city with everything that implies.
As for the 20m away from Dant Outpost...think about the semantics of your question, because the logic you use makes no more sense than the visibilty laws already in place, because I could be dueling witha friend 35 meters from you, and tho you can see me in all my jedi glory, you aren't affecting my viz, because you are further than 32m away, right? So that little argument is null and void.
What happends if I move closer? Obviously, you get visibility. The reason the vis limit is 32m is to to offer the jedi a chance to stop. To quickly cease whatever visibility generating activity he's doing. In a way, a limit that allows the jedi to get away enforces visibility even better than one that doesn't, because it makes it possible to get away clean.
Does a jedi that wants to hide continue with whatever he's doing when I'm 35m from him, or does 35m cause the same reaction (i.e. running, hiding) as 32m? I say he will. He'll run off just as burnt as if the spectator was within 32m. That's the difference between the present situation and your suggestion.
(There might of course also be technical limitations involved. Checking a 64m radius is quite a lot more ground to cover)
I must be missing something here, I have been a master bh for a long time, only time I was not was during my jedi grind and now like 99% I have a jedi and a mbh which I might add no longer hunts jedi under the current poor jedi/bh system the dev's have given us to work with,
I followed lots of jedi, but I never followed them close enough to give them vis, seems kinda stupid to me if you arefollowing a jedi with auto follow trying to do recon, I always stood off and watched and learned, if I am not stuck to their butts then they will not play...because I feel the current bh/jedi system is a griefing system, and griefing is bad for any game,
Zoorik was mad that his usual camping spot had other Jedi in it...it was one of the temples on Yavin...anyway, he followed us around...sending tells about 'enjoy the visibility,' etc., etc.
We sent a ticket and were told that "Jedi have to beware of their enemies..." etc...essentially, that is isn't griefing...it is the cost of being a Jedi.
Wolf
"You can regrind the XP loss in "
So, when the XP loss is no issue at all, why is it still ingame ?!
Wouldnt it be "cool" if the XP loss is removed and NOONE cares about dying anymore ?
So far, all the threads here complaining about viz, BHs, force PvP etc etc etc are in 98% about the XP loss in the result.
Why not removing it and ending all of the pain, whinings, pita, hatred etc ?
When XP loss is no issue anymore, Jedi/BH relation dont need to hate each other anymore.
Fight...run, clone, whatever: No hard feelings (cuz no penality), mature acting blablablabla.
And the "help me getting 225K" exploit is also easy to fix (see my sig)