Jedi Archive
Thread: -40 Combat Speed Debuff. Does It Need a Nerf? Hard Numbers Inside.
HappyFunBal wrote:
I guess my response was really geared towards your conclusion. Given that even Mpowers is low DPS, largely due to it's lack of speed (cooldown timers warmup timers), another 25% decrease in speed would render that particular Jedi skill tree close to useless.
So in order for your conclusion to ring true for a MPowers, it would read, "A 26.4% decrease in a target's attack speed in well within balanced parameters for a debuff attack.It is in no danger of disrupting game balance. -except for Master Force Weilder". And of course the appended portion to your conclusion can be *insert a combat prof that is too slow*.
Of course I realize the fix lies within the Powers tree, not nerfing someone else's skills (combat medic). (Sorry SOE, you're going to have to fix mulitiple professions for certain fixes, not just nerf one skill from one profession and call it "good")
The last part in paranthesis does raise an issue though. If a particular skill of a profession impacts multiple professions, then it certainly has to be looked at to make sure that it's "working as intended". Only the game devs can decide if a 25% overall combat speed reduction is what they really intended for the CM. Of course if it's not what was intended......out comes the nerf bat.
please stop bumping you are inciting falme by forcing what you beleive to be a balanced skill on this profession. That is your opinion no one can argue with it. My opinion is that it is overpowered. it is debuffing double what can be applyied by a Jedi so it is Overpowered in MY opinion if it was rebalanced to 25 or 30 then I would be happy with that.
Nothing in game gives a +40 speed buff so why does a debuff have to reduce combat haste by 40 when no one can apply 40 easily.
Die26 wrote:
please stop bumping you are inciting falme by forcing what you beleive to be a balanced skill on this profession. That is your opinion no one can argue with it. My opinion is that it is overpowered. it is debuffing double what can be applyied by a Jedi so it is Overpowered in MY opinion if it was rebalanced to 25 or 30 then I would be happy with that.
Nothing in game gives a +40 speed buff so why does a debuff have to reduce combat haste by 40 when no one can apply 40 easily.
mauvros wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
/bump
I think this special is a bit out of balance.
Its pretty much a 29% speed reduction perm, and it can be chained.
The speed reduction is not the problem, its the fact that is can be chain and applied to the target for the entire battle.
Take improved warcry and then add improved intimidate. (Both can be found in the pike tree) and your pretty much reducing the targets damage output by 50% for the entire fight. Thats a bit overkill I think.
What is the % of damage reduction for improved intimidate?
I think some kind of diminishing returns on the slow need to be implimented, or the effect needs to last a MUCH shorter duration than it currently does.
A Pike/TKM/Doc 4 x x x can stand toe to toe with a Jedi until the Jedi runs out of force easily.
Pike in itself isnt very offensive, but since you can use specials with any weapon now you can use TKM with some nice 800 Dps VK's and add some unarmed speed CA's along with Healing eff CA's and become a slowing killing machine.
The template above can pound on the Jedi enough to keep him healing because of the decent DPS of the template.
The Jedi's can beat on the template in question all he wants because 50% DPS reduction is easily managed by a 4 x x x Doc with healing eff CA's.
Conclusion:
The special is to powerful in its current state and needs a bit of tweaking, either diminishing returns or a MUCH shorter duration.
Message Edited by mauvros on 08-17-2005 04:59 PM
Armor Break causes a 50% increase in your damage, and can be chained indefinitely in combat. The -40 combat speed debuff causes a 26.4% decrease in your damage.
Which skill seems like the overpowered one? The answer is Armor Break, but you don't hear people whining to get it nerfed.
Ternque01 wrote:
mauvros wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
/bump
I think this special is a bit out of balance.
Its pretty much a 29% speed reduction perm, and it can be chained.
The speed reduction is not the problem, its the fact that is can be chain and applied to the target for the entire battle.
Take improved warcry and then add improved intimidate. (Both can be found in the pike tree) and your pretty much reducing the targets damage output by 50% for the entire fight. Thats a bit overkill I think.
What is the % of damage reduction for improved intimidate?
I think some kind of diminishing returns on the slow need to be implimented, or the effect needs to last a MUCH shorter duration than it currently does.
A Pike/TKM/Doc 4 x x x can stand toe to toe with a Jedi until the Jedi runs out of force easily.
Pike in itself isnt very offensive, but since you can use specials with any weapon now you can use TKM with some nice 800 Dps VK's and add some unarmed speed CA's along with Healing eff CA's and become a slowing killing machine.
The template above can pound on the Jedi enough to keep him healing because of the decent DPS of the template.
The Jedi's can beat on the template in question all he wants because 50% DPS reduction is easily managed by a 4 x x x Doc with healing eff CA's.
Conclusion:
The special is to powerful in its current state and needs a bit of tweaking, either diminishing returns or a MUCH shorter duration.
Message Edited by mauvros on 08-17-2005 04:59 PM
Armor Break causes a 50% increase in your damage, and can be chained indefinitely in combat. The -40 combat speed debuff causes a 26.4% decrease in your damage.
Which skill seems like the overpowered one? The answer is Armor Break, but you don't hear people whining to get it nerfed.
Armor break doesnt bring my damage up anywhere near 50%.
You think armor break is overpowered? Armor is easy to come by my friend, speed isnt.
Its much easier to cap yourself out on Armor, Not so easy with speed though.
and your 26.4 percent isnt correct. Its more like a 29 Percent reduction.
Warcry alone with Improved intimidate lower the damage output of the target a little bit to much, and both can be found in the pikeman tree. Alot of power for one profession.
Name two attacks in anotherprofessionthat can be done and kept on the target in a perm state throught the entire fight that has such a damaging effect on DPS.
We do constantly. Plus we are not the only profession with AB i get it applied all the time by none jedi.
Ternque01 wrote:
mauvros wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
/bump
Armor Break causes a 50% increase in your damage, and can be chained indefinitely in combat. The -40 combat speed debuff causes a 26.4% decrease in your damage.
Which skill seems like the overpowered one? The answer is Armor Break, but you don't hear people whining to get it nerfed.
mauvros wrote:
Name two attacks in anotherprofessionthat can be done and kept on the target in a perm state throught the entire fight that has such a damaging effect on DPS.
Everyone is Looking at this the wrong way
Lets Pretend That Only The Debuff is Applied- Over a 5, 10 and 20 Min Period
(1) 4 Moves Lost Per Turn Over 5 Min= 20 Moves Lost, Therefore that is 10,000 to 20,000 Damage Lost
(2) 4 Moves Lost Per Turn Over 10 Min= 40 Moves Lost, Therefore That is 20,000 to 40,000 Damage Lost
(3) 4 Moves Per Turn Over 20 Min= 80 Moves Lost, Therefore That is 40,000 to 80,000 Damage Lost
All of this is considering a strong pvp player capable of 500 to 1000 Damage a Turn
Should You Add the Buff (v. Normal) 7500-15000, 15000-30000, and 30000-60000
Conclusion: Damage In Equal to 10,000 Damage or 20,000 Damage, Especially Closer to 40k-80k is GAME BREAKING, That is 40k the Cm did not have to Heal, Waste Mind And Turns On
"Stare At The Sun, It Will Burn Your Eyes And You Will Know Nothing, Study The Negitive And It Will Give You The Sun"
Message Edited by laz_souto on 08-17-2005 09:33 PM