Jedi Archive

Thread: Are there really Jedi here that think we are 1.5 times stronger than non-jedi?

Pday
Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:30 am
#79






OhBuggah wrote:






Pday wrote:

aura+ valor and pikkata doesnt do much difference VS 300+ accuracy, the combo of warning shot to lower their defences also help. Eyeshot + duelist stance + pikatta + intimidate shot limits the damage a jedi does to someone in 8k ab sliced recon.


Basically using a 725 max saber my powerattack does about 600 - 700 points of damage and thats with a windup and i have to stand still. My headhit/bodyhit/leghit hits for about 400 - 500, same with saberthrow. the root lasts for about15 seconds i think, the second you root someone with the bh/pistoleer temp you get KD and disarmingshotted for about 5 seconds, then the second the root wears off get root and they run out to 30ish saberthrow range.


its not a "im incapped and geta db situation" its more the fact that someone with bh and armor break sliced recon coupled with CM heals and stims can easily drain a jedi completely of force, which means that the jedi is dead.


The force pool will eventually drain from just keeping aura, valor, basic saberattacks, and force speed active due to the way to low regen rate compared to the rate force drains


force aura : 150 force


force speed : 300 force


Force supression : 225 force


Adv saber throw : 30 force


imp armor break : 30 force


So to do what you said : aura + force speed + root + saberthrow and armor break = 735 force


a template with these skills would have about 6000 force, so just activating base abilities and a root + saberthrow and armor break costs me over 10% of my total force pool, a pool that takes about 10 - 14 minutes to fully regen.


now doing a saberthrow every 3 seconds il drain a full forcepool (6000) in about 10 minutes, could also be 15 depending on if the force cost is 20 or 30 for saberthrow. Now this is just saberthrow, reactivating aura every 45 seconds in those 10 minutes takes a total of roughly 800 force.


The issue here isnt are jedi 1.5 the issue is wt-f is wrong with the force drain and force regen? because its way to easy to drain a full template jedi of force.


oh and for the 1.5 guy, what was said was : a fully templated padawan would be 1.5 times stronger





You are really fudging the numbers to make it look like Jedi are weak and thus make it look like Jedi are require a power buff.


First off, 300 accuracy? WTH? An MBH/MPistoleer only hasa total of 200 accuracy, with tapes it goes to 250. With crispic it goes to 290 and uses up valuable stomach filling. Most won't even have capped accuracy tapes, and the ones who do are the hardcore PvP'ers who should probably beat you anyways because itsounds like you don't knowwhat you're doingfrom your descriptions.Even in the best case scenario where you don't have him blinded to reduce his accuarcy, his 290 accuracy vs. your 900-1000defense when you've got aura+valor+pikatta means he will miss 60-70% of the time, and when his shots DO land they will be for 200 damage each time.


I cannot comment on the specific force costs you mentioned in your response, but what I DO know is that each of those specials you mentioned are not something you have to activate each time you use them. You sort of imply that each time you attack you would have to activate those specific force specials each combat round. The force costs are one-time use that lasts for 30-45 seconds which equates to many combat rounds.


MBH/MPistols is the weakest jedi hunting template possible. It has no CM debuffs. It has the lowest accuracy of all the ranged professions. It lacks any high damage specia. If you seriously have problems killing one of these types of bounty hunters, then maybe you should try a different profession.







my bh/pistoleer has the base 200 + crispic + tapes and breaks 300 accuracy, i dont use any other special that ranged shot, withaadv crit and torso thrown inonce in a while, i dont try to incap the jedi, i run them out of force every single time, usuallythey pop holocrons and sometimes even healthbuff crystals to try and last longer and they dont.


Valor, not everyone has it, and those who are using aura and valor are using 300 force pr minute to use it and thereby will drain themselves of forcein 20 minutes, thats with no attacks, no heals.


It seems like youre basing the entire argument on your opponent being m.def and not all jedi are, for me, 9 ouf of 10 bhs are not a problem the hardcore bh's are the problem, the ones that can drain your force. M.cm/m.bh is a joke ive killed every single one that has come after me in about 3 minutes, m.bh/m.rifles is decent, the m.bh/m-pistoleer is less of a cookie cutter and more of a finesse template but extremely effective due to the crowd control element of it. Most of the time the jedi cant even get me in saber range, and if they do they cant outdamage my heals and my mind never goes under 50%.


Last time i checked my jedi didnt have 800 - 1000 defence, actually no jedi have 800 - 1000 defence, you can go for pikatta but thats 27 filling, and the bh you were talking about didnt want to use it for crispic. We can argue this to no end, but i think your sig listing 300+ jedi kills is proof enough.





Iadao

4-4-4-4 Sick inhumane S.O.B

GCW forum motto : Lets all go beat some more DEAD HORSES

yeah it's only a game, but the time and money I invested in it are certainly F'ing REAL.

YeahButNo
Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:03 am
#80





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Elisar
Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:38 am
#81






Physkoris wrote:

In PvE.. Yes. On my Jedi I can take out CL 89 Dark Suns, whereas my alt BH/Pistoleer would have no chance. We're not supposed to be 1.5 times stronger than other players in PvP, because that would be a serious game-breaking imbalance. Just imagine if we were 1.5 times stronger.. There would be no non-jedi pvp'ers, and nearly everyone wanting to be viable in pvp would be grinding towards Jedi.





um they do that anyway



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Elisar - Bloodfin

Be seeing ya!

You know... in my head... I saw that going differently.
Wolf24601
Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:04 am
#82


The 1.5 was never fully clarified so I don't think we can really argue this well at the moment.



Against BHs?




A Jedi can make a template which will enable him or her to almost always escapemultiple BHs. This will be high defense/low offense.


A Jedi can make a template which will kill most BHs one on one, many one on two, but sufferagainst the gank squads. So...1.5x...if I win2 out of every 3 encounters, is that 1.5? Defeating 2 in a 1 on 2 would be 2x...and how do you account for uber weapons and armor? Not all BHs have that...so they aren't the standard for comparison...


Against Non-BHs?


There are terrific Melee stackers thatcan outlast or defeat Jedi. But the Jedi can root and/or run...so howdo youquanitfy that? I return to the above statements...if I can't be beaten, butI cannot beat them either, what does that mean? If I can beat most, or even the majority of those I fight, is that 1.5?


So...


By the ways I define 1.5x I think wewill always bepowerful.


I dislike the nerfs. I hate that my template has to be changed with every other publish due to the tweaking that creates Achilles' heals that need mending.


What is the role of the Jedi? That also needs to be clarified before you can quantify 1.5.


Jedi should not be an "I Win" button. We got here through hard work and should live up to our profession, learning to fight our templates and stop spending our time getting competing Jedi templates'fixed' or trying to'fix' every other profession.


Wolf

MsNiL
Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:06 am
#83

Anybody with an IQ + 100 and experience from Pre-CU should realise that our skillsets did not change at all to work with the new system. We are running around with stuffthat where designed somewhere around August 2004. This SHOULD tell you that there's no design. There's no x1.5. There's no "support" Jedi. There's no "plan" behind how Jedi look right now.


Maybe that's what we would be IF we where updated to work with the CU, but we where not.


Toughness was removed from all professions. The upgraded professions got armor mitigation or innate armor instead. In Jedi they just swapped Jedi Toughness with Innate Armor.

Defense was added to all professions except thoose who where "out of scope", such as Entertainers, Rangers, Creature Handlers and... Jedi.


There's just one truth: We where not revamped. We are not balanced or designed to work under this ruleset. Stop speculatingand wait for the revamp.


As far as I concern, Jedi is a Dead profession as Major parts of it do not belong in the game. Either it's severly/gamebreakingly overpowered, or they are not fit for surviving mid-level pve or acttheir dedicated role.




--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.
CURBhater
Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:18 am
#84

I am 2-3x stronger than any ranged and like just as strong vs melee people so I guess that makes the average 1,5x




. : .God Ofebay. : .
_______________________________________________________________
'Knuckles' - Elder Jhedeye
_______________________________________________________________
I stole this sig from a PreCU/CU/NGE Nonfactor
/spit
"Consider Yourself Murked

CURBhater
Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:21 am
#85

If it was possible yes

I love the reactions I get from my forumhandle,its energizing me




. : .God Ofebay. : .
_______________________________________________________________
'Knuckles' - Elder Jhedeye
_______________________________________________________________
I stole this sig from a PreCU/CU/NGE Nonfactor
/spit
"Consider Yourself Murked

BladeWaker
Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:33 am
#86




"Are there really Jedi here that think we are 1.5 times stronger than non-jedi?"



http://glug.grm.hia.no/~kristian/swg/WraithOfSin.wmv




DECIDE YERRRSELF



[[Robbie M. ]]
[[Old Skool]]
[[|||FEDS|||]]
-OneManGuild+Ubernoob+JoknFTW-
BladeWaker
Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:35 am
#87

Can you say -15,000 FRS? LOL



[[Robbie M. ]]
[[Old Skool]]
[[|||FEDS|||]]
-OneManGuild+Ubernoob+JoknFTW-
Pday
Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:57 am
#88

the issue is that


Force healer : x-x-x-4 is pretty much useless since foods can take the hits off poisons, bleeds are worthless and most profs except jedi have state recoverys.

x-x-4-x sap and shock, sap is ok, but doesnt make much of a difference, most melee/docs or cm/bhs on my server have mindbuffs and foods that totally counteracts sap , and shock is wasted since states doesnt matter.

x-4-x-x is again a waste except for wound heals, which i can get from any melee guy anywhere and to cure fire, except that its faster and more force efficiant to run into water.

4-x-x-x works as intended except i keep healing others and my heals keep being lagged out totally, and they are much slower and have more costs than non jedi.


Force enhancer :

x-x-x-4 meditate has no purpose due to the fact that it hardly speeds up force regen compared to just sitting, channeling down to about 1.5k health and letting it regen is actually faster. Wave is useful if it wasnt for the fact that chargeshot counters the snare out completely , force shield is nice, but having the x-x-4-x line of defence with force defence gives better resist and reduction of force attacks.

x-x-4-x enhancer, resist states well states hardly matter and the different resist skills in enhancer have no point to using because poisons, desease and fire are not powerful anymore.

x-4-x-x works nicely but i think the force costs need to be looked at again, and how do you armor break force armor, breach should be the counter to force armor, not armor break.

4-x-x-x supression is a great skill and working nicely, force run needs to be split into 2 skills 1 thats equal to FR1 with no damage reduction and 1 with damage reduction for FR2 and 3. Force speed needs to be bought up to the +25 that a doc speed buff gives.


If enhancer is supposed tobe the mezz and crowd controller of jedi it needs more mezzes, roots, snares and so on.


Force defender :


Pretty much working as intended except for the AI bug. Could use an increase in hate generation from dominate mind and an area taunt at master.


Lightsaber


more accuraccy needed to be equal to non jedi proffessions and the lightsabers themselves need alot of work to be equal or better than non jedi weapons. more work needs to be done lightsabers not the tree itself.


Powers


Needs a ton of work to make abilities worth it.


Jedi in general :


Defence for all jedi regardless of template, a m.doc/m.cm has acess to armor and has more defence than m.heal/m.powers, jedi inate armor.

Lightsaber needs more block for instance 60% chance to block both ranged and melee attacks or get inate armor mods in tech and master boxes. Jedi needs a full revamp to fit in the new system. In the old system m.ls had about 10000 armor in the new system and 85% block something that gave jedi more template diversity.



Iadao

4-4-4-4 Sick inhumane S.O.B

GCW forum motto : Lets all go beat some more DEAD HORSES

yeah it's only a game, but the time and money I invested in it are certainly F'ing REAL.

Xeon8
Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:11 am
#89

Did any of you guys stop to think that maybe when the FRS comes back we will really be 1.5x. So they nerfed our speed buff, our sap, our force run...etc, but do you think that when the FRS is back that the mods in it will actually make those go back to what they were as you move up in it? Well thats what i'm hoping anyway, but if that is not the case when the FRS comes out then I will be very upset.


just my 2 cents





-{XeonVIII - Jedi Sentinel}-
-{Jaden' - Personal Bizach}-
-{Biz - Best Doc}-
-{Death Row Council}-
Antilles98
Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:32 am
#90

No, you CAN'T rely on FRS to help boost Jedi power. A fully templated Jedi is supposed to be 1.5 times stronger than any normal character (NOT normal profession, normal character).

FRS is for those people who wish to actively participate in pvp and competition against each other. There are several people who play Jedi not to pvp, but to roleplay being a jedi. This is their goal. A jedi shouldn't be smacked down by a BH with a droid in tow who is healing themselves faster and far more reliable than you, rezzing the droid instantly DURING combat so that they may continue to have the uber heals.

For the average gamer, it takes a year or so to become a fully templated Jedi. Even if you disagree with the time it takes, it's obvious that becoming a fully templated Jedi takes a significant amount of work and dedication, which should not be trumphed by the regular professions FOTM templates. This diserves something, and considering a large portion of jedi players are this games long term player base, SOE needs to get it's act together and make Jedi something more than wizards with flaming swords.
Spynet-Informant
Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:24 am
#91






DigitalMice wrote:


Are there really Jedi here that think we aer 1.5 times stronger than non-Jedi?






At least....




  • Jedi Beats BH Jedi dies


  • wintersNight 14 1


  • h4rr0w20 1


  • Nastypope5 1


  • allproucando 24 0


  • SugarBuzz110 0


  • jonaga 20 0


  • MasterGettingOnTerms 173




  • COLDFUSION11 32 2


  • Ameno33 0


  • MrDoppa 2 0


  • TOTALS177 8


  • Assuming everyone told the truth...

    Win Ratio: 95%

    Loss Ratio: 4%
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