CUEmu - Thread Posts

Zarathustra

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:08 am

Diorchas wrote:

Flawless,

Once again, I'll reiterate... I don't have any problem with Jedi needing to have combat skills. We can all agree that every Jedi needs to know his way around a lightsaber.

The problems arise when you make it harder for one playstyle to achieve something than another playstyle.

The problems arise when you make the endgame cater to one playstyle at the total exclusion of another.

The problems arise when you force people to play in a certain way to attain something that should be available to all playstyles.

I still don't get your arguement at all, reading through all of these responses and the entire thread.

Just Answer these for me:

a) You don't want to beprimarly combat character, but you want to gain the rank of Jedi Master, right or wrong?

b) You don't want to be open to PvP ever, but you want gain the rank of Jedi Master, or at least Knight, correct?

I'm sorry, but this isn't the "jedi" style of gameplay for you. Every game has it's limitations. You have to have a set playstyle.

Lets change the argument for something else in this game. Lets say, I'm a doctor. I want to make the best Buffs in the game, so I can role play someone that is more of a pharmecutical provider rather than a doctor. So I start making buffpacks, stims, etc.. But, I cannot advance in purely the crafting aspect unless I become a master doctor so I get all the experimentation points, and all of the schematics available to make. So, it's like complaining that you should be able to get to master doctor to get what you want without healing anyone ever.

Jedi, by and large, are primarily combat characters. They claim to be keepers of the peace, but you said it yourself, you imagined as you were a kid using sticks as lightsabers. No one pretends to be a jedi who just sits around and negotiates disputes. How else would you suggest getting Jedi experience in the game?

If you get a Jedi, you end up with incredible power, and this power has to be worked for. It's a LOT of work. SOE has NEVER said otherwise, and has always been upfront with everyone since beta on 2 things: a) Not everyone will get a jedi and b) Jedi will be a hard road.

Also, if you plan on becoming a Knight or "Master" be prepared to PvP your rear off. The only way to achieve these titles is through the enclaves. You are Perma-overt and you will have to fight. Even if you don't want to, Jedi are forced to fight in every movie. Not everything has a peaceful solution, especially during this time period. (also, Jedi can always find themselves in PvP with BH missions, but you aren't permanately overt until you hit the rank of Jedi Knight).

Now, I will conceade that had this game been set in a time period of the Old Republic, that yes, there should be many more varities of jedi disciplines available, and many non-combat avenues to take as well. But in this game, where it's set, I can't agree.

The best thing for you, if you decide to take the road of jedi, is get together with other like-minded individuals on your server. There is power in numbers, especially if you find more jedi. If you have that type of power, it allows you more avenues of freedom you don't get as a solo player.

Jedi in this time, are not keepers of the peace. They have to fight for their very existence (in-game as well as on the forums most days..heh).

~Zarathustra~

~~Founder of Zaracorp Weapons~~

~Etheara Greame~

4/4/4/4

~~~Dark Jedi~~~

rexan

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:16 am

#80

Diorchas wrote:

But let's say that I did destroy everything I've spent the last year creating for him, just so I can have my Jedi. What then? Well, then I'm forced to grind an obscene amount of XP (which, we've seen, leads to an entirely different attitude in game that promotes KSing and generally being a **edit** to people) to raise my skills. This is time very few people have. I have a real life outside the game which limits my free time. What free time I DO have I'm not willing to waste 100% of it grinding in game toward what end?

The Jedi system is not for everyone. I know you hate the hear that. The old system for unlocking had people destroying there professions left and right. The new system will be somewhat better now. And actually have some content.

Jedi is just a swordsman/fencer/pikeman with a glowy stick. If you enjoy crafting more than combat, Jedi may not be for you.

I'd day, wait and see. It may not be as bad as it sounds once it goes live. Personally, Im really looking forward to theJTLs

Rexan Ryu
Master Smuggler
Flurry Server

Peadar

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:24 am

#81

MadDoc76 wrote:

/agree 100%.,,.,

And I have 9 accounts.,., & I used to play 17+ hours a day.,.,now., I set here waiting for something to happen other than Nerfs or the Dev's changing all the roles of the game.,., Oh I am a power gamer.,,. My jedi is more or less a master .,,.(Of what .,.,I don't know.,LoL).,,. I do hope the Dev's or whom ever runs this game, wakes up soon.,,.

Maddoc

Bloodfin

Ouch! Have you tried dating girls? I heard they can be fun

Perhaps you feel you are being treated unfairly? ...Darth Vader

Rouge

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:25 am

#82

IdrisTycho wrote:

Diorchas wrote:
Jackal,

Your post illustrates my point perfectly. The Devs have made Jedi into a combat profession rather than as a moral calling. What most people are doing in the game has absolutely nothing to do with being Jedi except that they can use a lightsaber and wear Jedi robes. Very little they do is consistent with the code of the Jedi. No, it's not your fault for playing the Jedi as the Devs created it. That's the problem, though.

I am not saying that you are entirely wrong, but I do recall a TON of fighting by the Jedi in the movies... Jedi are not pacifists. They do not avoid a fight. They just don't start them, and where possible they try to talk their opponents out of the fight. To say that the Jedi are not combatants is clearly incorrect though. They spend the majority of their lives learning the intricate art of fighting with a lightsaber.

I believe the quote you are looking for is...

"It's obvious that this cannot be settledwith our knowledge of the Force, but with our skills with the Lightsaber"
- Count Dooku -

vRhianna Redmoonv
TFirst Human Master Dancer on the Scylla Server T
Est. July 11, 2003

Many patches ago, on a server far, far away....

"Don't start trashing my brother, you cantina rat.

Take that back or I'll smack you so hard your head-tails will pop off!"

- Mission Vao -

Kroung

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:29 am

#83

Cry a little more, JEdi = PvP wanted or not, what do you wanna do, run around force crafting sabers for your self, duel in SP to show off your jedi, you = what makes ppl hate jedi, a want for a toy to brag about. Get a life Buy KOTOR and poof you jedi with no pvp and you can just stand around all you like.

Welcome to jedi cannon fauter

xXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

XXXX..::XeoX::..XXXX

[Dark Lord Of the Sith]

Death Has A Shadow and It's standing Behind You

Call me X, cause it's all you will have time to say

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

xXXXXXXXXXSith'XXXXXXXXXx

Diorchas

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:38 am

#84

Anyone who is still saying that I want something I don't earn either has and agenda of their own and is purposefully misreading my posts or doesn't know how to read. So I won't be responding to any of those posts. One can only clarify their position so much before it becomes obvious that others just don'twant to hear it.

As far as everyone saying "But Jedi are a combat/PvP class, deal with it." You're right. That's what I'm complaining about. That the Devs turned the Jedi into that. Yes, the Jedi fought in the movies. But you are all conveniently forgetting the things that Yoda was trying to teach Luke. You know Yoda... the quintessential Jedi Master. He told Luke that being one with the Force was about peace, not aggression. It was about understanding the world around you, not about killing as many things as you can. That's the Dark Side. If you guys want to play Dark Side Jedi, hey, more power to you. But don't sit here and tell me that that crap is what beingJedi is about. The way the Jedi are in this is is directly antithetical to what they are in Star Wars canon. And THAT is the underlying complaint I have.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I want to be able to make my character into a Master Jedi. That you folks see such a statement as equivalent to me saying "I want to be the biggest bad-ass on the block" only shows that you have no conception whatsoever of what I'm trying to say or what I want to do. Being a Jedi Master in this game may mean exactly what you think it does, but that's the problem in the first place! Did you see Yoda going around slaughtering everything? The only time you saw him fight was in self-defense and in the defense of his fellow Light Side Jedi.

Look, people... Iknow I'm tilting at windmills here. Iknow that this game, as constructed by the Devs, is such that Jedi are solely a PvP class. Let me be very clear... THAT...IS... WHY... I'M.... UPSET.... IN.... THE...FIRST... PLACE! The Devs are catering to people who have no conception at all what it means to play a Jedi in a roleplaying game. To most of the people who are capable of attaining Mastery it will only mean that they are uber leet. They will not try to live by the Jedi code, they will not help people in need, they will donothing that defines what it truly means to he Jedi. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it up with George Lucas, becausehe is the one that defined what Jedi is and is not, not me.

Ultimately the attitudes that I'm seeing here are perfect examples of why this game is rapidly losing all of its luster for roleplayers. I don't think for a minute that all PvPers are as closeminded as some of the ones that have posted here. In fact, I'm friends with quite a few and whether they agree with me or not they at least concede that the Devs have pretty much screwed the roleplayers when it comes to Jedi.

Zarathustra

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:57 am

#85

A follow up suggestion to you then.

Present a system, go through jedi, detail by detail, and describe how you would have the jedi system work in the game that fits the image of a jedi during this time period. Keep in mind, you have to take into account all things like programming time, the resources the dev team has available, game balance, and fun for all different playing styles.

You have to appeal to the masses and the majority of players as well to make the game successful.

These type of constructed posts work much better, and you have to put a lot of thought into it to realize why jedi are the way they are in the game. Remember, we're only 1/30th of the game as well, and it doesn't center around our existence (and I could argue that weaponsmiths and armorsmiths have that title since the success of the game does center around their success).

Present an "image" of how the system should be through your eyes. Don't just say, Jedi didn't do this in the movies, change it! Everyone is talking apples to oranges to you because you aren't doing this. Most people here are being pratical within the constructs of the game.

~Zarathustra~

~~Founder of Zaracorp Weapons~~

~Etheara Greame~

4/4/4/4

~~~Dark Jedi~~~

Naquiel

Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:02 am

#86

I think you missing the point and not seeing what a true jedi learns and becomes in the end.

1. Jedi learn ways of peace, to avoid fighting, but fighing will occure that why they train to protect themselves and others. Example: in episode 2 we see Ben visiting Yoda, Yoda is training young students to protect themselves. When the students grow up they have the ways of combat for protection and peace, not angered attacks. Learn the difference between survival and angered attacks and you will see the difference.

2. To be a master, you have to be wise in many things. Even Yoda had to endure combat now and then. Conflict is everywere, negotiations go bad sometims outsid of your control, but you will have the power to learn from them or be dead.

3. Taking a road as a jedi as a protector for the ppl can be done in many ways, but at this timeframe in the game, its more of surviving the surcomstances. Again combat is eminent.

And from a gaming point of view: 4. Jedi are mostly combat because if there was a way to become a master jedi without doing any kind of combat, then all ppl will be getting there jedi without combat, and then the servers will just be jedi wars.

So befor you keep spouting off that jedi dont see combat and Yoda says it leads to aggression, i would suggest you read up a little more on jedi ways.

____________________________________________

From the launch of the game we came. Moving quickly to unlock the secrets. Living many battles to reach the the goal of unlocking a Jedi. For the few who complain, will eventuly get their goal. No one has ever truly known the path to getting a Jedi........untill now.

Diorchas

Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:03 am

#87

Zara,

The few times I've mentioned alternative ways to do it I've had people flame me. I've been called everything but a nice guy for suggesting that playing a Jedi means that you're expected to act like one. If you'd really like for me to draw up a proposal of sorts just to show that I'd rather be constructive than devisive I'd be happy to, but I won't post it here. That's just inviting all the idiots who'd see it only as a threat to their beloved status quo and would shout me down. Trying to bring original ideas to the table via the message boards is a lot like being a dissenting voice in Lord of the Flies. You just end up having people drop a rock on your head.

Diorchas

Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:07 am

#88

Naquiel,

I'm not sure if I can think of another way to say "I know Jedi have to have combat skills", so I'll just direct you to the rest of my posts. If you actually read them you'll see that I agree with most of what you've said. I just disagree vehemently with making Jedi in this game ALL about PvP. That is completely against what it means to be Jedi.

Zerofun

Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:15 am

#89

i agree if u wanna role play go read a book and if it the final straw then quit. To many jedi anyway.

Diorchas

Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:21 am

#90

Zerofun,

If you think that reading a book is roleplaying then you're part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem, please.

Naquiel

Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:25 am

#91

Diorchas wrote:

Naquiel,

I'm not sure if I can think of another way to say "I know Jedi have to have combat skills", so I'll just direct you to the rest of my posts. If you actually read them you'll see that I agree with most of what you've said. I just disagree vehemently with making Jedi in this game ALL about PvP. That is completely against what it means to be Jedi.

But they dont have to be all PVP, only after getting Knight will you have to be full PVP, or did you miss that in the notes from the devs. Now there is a reason to be full PVP from knight on. That is the top, but since this is the devs game you have to follow there rules. If you dont want to PVP, just stay neutral, dont grp with any factioned players, and try to stay away from massivly populated areas.

But from everyone arguing here, you have already made up your mind on the subject. You dont want to PVP, but if you want to be a master jedi you will have to PVP. You can still be peaceful, but you will have to protect yourself from time to time from the sith.

But what i really get from your posts is that you are trying to force roleplaying in a game with many ppl that are not going to follow the rules of roleplaying. The devs have things in place that ppl have to play by, if you dont like them , then dont play. And you still dont know the true way of playing a jedi, go read up on them and see. The movies are mostly showing the candy coated fluff that ppl like, but what you never see is the gritty background the jedi really have to deal with.

Edit: You know, the only way i think you ever going to have a jedi your way is to just go get the SW roleplaying game, become a DM and pull out the paper and pencil and create that uber non combat jedi you have always wanted. Be sure to invite some friends over and just play. Then you might not be so dissapointed when you are in full controll of the character you created.

Message Edited by Naquiel on 08-27-2004 10:36 AM

Message Edited by Naquiel on 08-27-2004 10:37 AM

____________________________________________

From the launch of the game we came. Moving quickly to unlock the secrets. Living many battles to reach the the goal of unlocking a Jedi. For the few who complain, will eventuly get their goal. No one has ever truly known the path to getting a Jedi........untill now.

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