Jedi Archive

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Jacella wrote:

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pizzathehut67 wrote:

side question: everyone says CM 4000 can outheal a jedi... but how far is that jedi in the healer template? if you mean that a CM 4000 can out heal a master healer then that definitely needs to be fixed pronto! CM 4000 and Healer 4000 should NOT heal for the same. Master CM and Master healer Should heal for the same... ill explain why

Healer 4000 and Master Healer are about the same, and the CM 4000 wins everytime due to no force cost and lower mind cost.

The cost should be the same. i consider an imbalance in the mind cost to be a game imbalance. perhaps a reduced mind cost for force healing as it also draws from the force pool?

a jedi is using the force to heal themselves and others... a CM is using technology to do the same.

we can all agree that the force is not somthing one could just pick up and use... neither is medicine but if i had to pick which is more "user friendly"... id probably say its the syringe full of medicine.

CM's are likely healing for more because they are using enhancers. base healing abilities are most likely in line. By all previous arguments made by those saying the higher baseline is a good thing... then your own argument defeats you. That player took the time to go to a vendor and buy equipment... and... therefore... should be able to do it better than everyone else because they spent time on it.

They outheal because they have 3 (4 including stim d's) heals on seperate timers.

another imbalance that needs to be fixed. I would think putting on all healing abilities on the same timer (except stims) would fix this.

I think the comparison of CM 4000 and Healer 4000 (place the 4's in whiche ever column you like) is bad one. CM in this case should heal for more as the jedi has accomplished 25% of their training... not a very skilled jedi i would think. The CM is also 25% completed... but they also have technology on their side

MCM should not outheal a MHealer, and a cm 4000 should not outheal a Healer 4000...it's the force, plain and simple.

I agree with the master vs. master. in fact... master healer should probably be nearthe same level as doc... as i believe that CM should not heal for as much as it does as it makes up for it with DoTs (another seperate set of ideas all together). Doc should be the ultimate healer, then Master Healer at close second, then CM, then medic. I think a partially trained CM should outheal a partially trained force healer ONLY when the CM is using enhancers. The force requires much more training and use to be efficient. by base skill alone they should heal for the same...its the benefit of technology that ups the dabbler CM'sabilityand that should count for somthing. Based on the previous repsonse putting all healing abilities on the same one timer should correct most imbalances.

now... master healer vs. master CM? they should heal the same. that is to say... a master healer will heal for the same amount as a master CM using enhancers

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pizzathehut67 wrote:

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Neo_Thumper wrote:

ok im back

jedi have a higher baseline do they ok

tell me what server u r on

if ur not on my server make a temp toon

then u pick ANY combat toon (and i mean 2 elite masters) that have played 4 2 years

i'll will duel them maybe then u will stop callin 4 nerfs 2 jedi

cause as it standsatm a non jedi with good loot/weapon/armour (which they got over time i mite add so time does make a BIG differance) and i will bet u they will kick my butt.

then u can tell me y jedi need a nerf cause atm we r no better then 2 elite combat proff with some doc or cm

and in some cases we r weaker ei the post-cu jedi

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now 4 another thing

ur a better chef then a guy who just starnd 2 days ago right ????????

ok lets nerf u so u r no better them him

ur been playing 2 years hes been playing 2 days whats the differance

u make better food then him naaaaaaaaaah thats not fair. he has been playing 2 days after all lets make him as good as so even tho he has done nothing ingame

ahhhh dont wanna make him better ??????. ok we will nerf u and make u his level even tho uve been playing 2 years that shouldnt count for nothing should it ??????

dude ur thread started well but uve just gone onto askfor nerf after nerf. lol just like every other non jedi

i have not asked for a nerf and will no longer respond to you as you refuse to read what im posting. i am saying reduce the baseline jedi damage/speed to be inline with other combat profs and give the power back in the way of more powerful and more diverse specials. you will still have your powerful profession... but thats only if your intelligent enough to survive the game without your crutch.

I MAKE BETTER FOODS BECUASE I KNOW HOW TO MAKE THEM! I KNOW HOW TO GET TONS OF RESOURCES AT THE CHEAPEST COST! I KNOW WHAT TO EXPERIMENT ON! I KNOW WHAT ADDITIVES TO USE! if the noob wants to have resources like mine all it takes is money... there is MUCH more to crafting than resources.

ur post had the starting of something hopeful now isee itfor what it was jedi h8ing AGAIN

u dont like the fact jedi have a higher baseline fine. if it bothers u that much play EVE, WOW ect if it dosnt bother u that much then play UR game and dont ask the other ppl b brought downto ur level just cause u cant be bothered/dont have the time 2 grind jedi. play ur own game and let us play ours

k thanks bye... your repeated refusal to engage in a discussion and actually look past the first sentence has simply proven all you want is to be able to whack everything once and win. you my fat headed egotistical friend are whats called a sore winner. you have a jedi and think that entitles you to more power because you CHOSE to do a long grind. Your power should be in the skill... the combined sum of knowledge you gained over 2 years of playing.

im using my knowledge right now to corner the vehicle restoration kit market on bloodfin. i dont know anyone else who can keep 3 VRK vendors in high traffic malls stocked round the clock. its not because ive been playing for 2 years (only been space mining for 2-3 days)... its because i have the knowledge and skill to get the best of my competition.

Message Edited by Neo_Thumper on 09-14-2005 05:14 AM

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ill fire back with the same argument jedi spam constantly

YOU NOOB! USE YOUR SKILLS BETTER!

but MY argument

if the only thing keeping you from winning is equipment... why dont you go get yourself jedi geared equipment... if i can make 10 million credits in a week... so can a loot hunter jedi with a more valuable product than a VRKs at 175k each.

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pizzathehut67 wrote:

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Jacella wrote:

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pizzathehut67 wrote:

side question: everyone says CM 4000 can outheal a jedi... but how far is that jedi in the healer template? if you mean that a CM 4000 can out heal a master healer then that definitely needs to be fixed pronto! CM 4000 and Healer 4000 should NOT heal for the same. Master CM and Master healer Should heal for the same... ill explain why

Healer 4000 and Master Healer are about the same, and the CM 4000 wins everytime due to no force cost and lower mind cost.

The cost should be the same. i consider an imbalance in the mind cost to be a game imbalance. perhaps a reduced mind cost for force healing as it also draws from the force pool?

To balance it, both the mind cost needs to drop and the healing timer needs to be reduced.

a jedi is using the force to heal themselves and others... a CM is using technology to do the same.

we can all agree that the force is not somthing one could just pick up and use... neither is medicine but if i had to pick which is more "user friendly"... id probably say its the syringe full of medicine.

CM's are likely healing for more because they are using enhancers. base healing abilities are most likely in line. By all previous arguments made by those saying the higher baseline is a good thing... then your own argument defeats you. That player took the time to go to a vendor and buy equipment... and... therefore... should be able to do it better than everyone else because they spent time on it.

They outheal because they have 3 (4 including stim d's) heals on seperate timers.

another imbalance that needs to be fixed. I would think putting on all healing abilities on the same timer (except stims) would fix this.

Or simply add another lower heal at healer 2000 or novice on a seperate timer. As a general rule, all timers in the game should be sped up to speed combat.

I think the comparison of CM 4000 and Healer 4000 (place the 4's in whiche ever column you like) is bad one. CM in this case should heal for more as the jedi has accomplished 25% of their training... not a very skilled jedi i would think. The CM is also 25% completed... but they also have technology on their side

MCM should not outheal a MHealer, and a cm 4000 should not outheal a Healer 4000...it's the force, plain and simple.

I agree with the master vs. master. in fact... master healer should probably be nearthe same level as doc... as i believe that CM should not heal for as much as it does as it makes up for it with DoTs (another seperate set of ideas all together). Doc should be the ultimate healer, then Master Healer at close second, then CM, then medic. I think a partially trained CM should outheal a partially trained force healer ONLY when the CM is using enhancers. The force requires much more training and use to be efficient. by base skill alone they should heal for the same...its the benefit of technology that ups the dabbler CM'sabilityand that should count for somthing. Based on the previous repsonse putting all healing abilities on the same one timer should correct most imbalances.

Dissagree, healer should always be better than the non-forcewielder counterpart. That's the reward for the risk.

now... master healer vs. master CM? they should heal the same. that is to say... a master healer will heal for the same amount as a master CM using enhancers

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Pizza, I'm sorry if you've already addressed this and if so I'll re-read because, whilst I've been following this thread, it has become disproportionately long.

Can you please explain to me your concept of a jedi "higher baseline for speed/damage" when as far as I can see Jedi has a lower baseline in this respect than some other 'normal' profs?

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Huaracocha wrote:

Pizza, I'm sorry if you've already addressed this and if so I'll re-read because, whilst I've been following this thread, it has become disproportionately long.

Can you please explain to me your concept of a jedi "higher baseline for speed/damage" when as far as I can see Jedi has a lower baseline in this respect than some other 'normal' profs?

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its quite simple... the Devs have given jedi a higher baseline damage and speed. in the mechanics of the game there are mathematical formulas that govern everything... including damage and speed. each formula has a multiplier which effects how much damage your temp can do. thats partly why some classes damage for more than others. case in point... some carbines are very close to a good rifle... but the rifle does more damage. im saying the higher baseline for jedi should be brought in line with other profs

THEN

give the power back to the jedi in the form of more powerful and more diverse special abilities. If a BH can't win a fight with a jedi knight unless they "use their skills better" than it keeps that a jedi should not be able to win the fight unless they also use their skills efficiently. Jedi would have a much easier time managing their skills because they have more options available to them. The idea is to make skill synonimous with success in combat.

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larryburns wrote:
pizza the problem is jedi is an alpha class it's not supposed to be the same as every other prof. Recently in many areas it's weaker. non jedi melee stacker is stronger then a defender. Jedi weapons have great min max diff but the damage on sabers even perfectly tuned are still amazingly lower damage then crafted guns and melee weapons. Jedi heals are worse then some medic heals. Finally there is the force that we cannot continue fighting like other profs. If our force goes (which happens still way too often) we go down. Normal profs don't worry about this 4th bar. We do. Because of this we have to manage mind/action/force. IN the end we lose because the other guy regenerates his mind and action pools while our force for the most part remains stagnant.

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pizzathehut67 wrote:

its quite simple... the Devs have given jedi a higher baseline damage and speed. in the mechanics of the game there are mathematical formulas that govern everything... including damage and speed. each formula has a multiplier which effects how much damage your temp can do. thats partly why some classes damage for more than others. case in point... some carbines are very close to a good rifle... but the rifle does more damage. im saying the higher baseline for jedi should be brought in line with other profs

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Huaracocha wrote:

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pizzathehut67 wrote:

its quite simple... the Devs have given jedi a higher baseline damage and speed. in the mechanics of the game there are mathematical formulas that govern everything... including damage and speed. each formula has a multiplier which effects how much damage your temp can do. thats partly why some classes damage for more than others. case in point... some carbines are very close to a good rifle... but the rifle does more damage. im saying the higher baseline for jedi should be brought in line with other profs

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I do understand the principle of what you're saying I just don't see where you are getting this higher baseline concept from. What is your reasoning to say that Jedi have been given a higher baseline damage and speed? It seems to me that, as things stand right now, this is not the case. Jedi do not put out the highest DPS when compared to other professions and therefore don't have the higher baseline in the first place. That's what confuses me!

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your looking at the end product when you factor in sub-par sabers that are supposed to be revamped.

in the equations to figure damage and speed jedi have a higher multiplier to make them equal or better to other classes. im saying remove the higher baseline and give the power back to jedi in the form of special attacks so that the jedi's skill is what matters most.

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pizzathehut67 wrote:

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Huaracocha wrote:

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pizzathehut67 wrote:

its quite simple... the Devs have given jedi a higher baseline damage and speed. in the mechanics of the game there are mathematical formulas that govern everything... including damage and speed. each formula has a multiplier which effects how much damage your temp can do. thats partly why some classes damage for more than others. case in point... some carbines are very close to a good rifle... but the rifle does more damage. im saying the higher baseline for jedi should be brought in line with other profs

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I do understand the principle of what you're saying I just don't see where you are getting this higher baseline concept from. What is your reasoning to say that Jedi have been given a higher baseline damage and speed? It seems to me that, as things stand right now, this is not the case. Jedi do not put out the highest DPS when compared to other professions and therefore don't have the higher baseline in the first place. That's what confuses me!

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your looking at the end product when you factor in sub-par sabers that are supposed to be revamped.

in the equations to figure damage and speed jedi have a higher multiplier to make them equal or better to other classes. im saying remove the higher baseline and give the power back to jedi in the form of special attacks so that the jedi's skill is what matters most.

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Well I'm looking at it like this - the maximum speed anyone can attack is once per second so this is completely equal. The hard cap on LS damage, as I understand it,is 800, even theorising a perfect craft and all perfect pearls. There are quite a few people around with rifles / hammers that have a lot higher damage than this. For example some people have hammers with damage in the region of 1100. This hammer can then have a damage power up placed on it to go up to 1400+ damage. I know which one sounds like it has a higher baseline to me and that's before you even consider 75% AB sliced armour,a clear disadvantage forclasses with innate armour.

Jedi used to have the higher multiplier you mention it's true, as we used to have Lightsaber damage and all the other various things that have changed. The only time I see any kind of multiplier for jedi now (as compared against 'normal' profs) seems to be from critter lairs which for some reason seem to think my saber still does LS damage or something.