Jedi Archive
Thread: a CL1 has ideas for the jedi profession
pizzathehut67 wrote:
Jacella wrote:
pizzathehut67 wrote:
Jacella wrote:
The FS grind is not even the beginning of the grind. The real grind starts AFTER padawan, and all it's associated risks.
Make a deal with you, I won't ask that you get nerfed if you stop this thread until you have a padawan.
i choose not to play a jedi because i like to craft. ill make a deal with you...
put together an intelligent argument as to why jedi should not be on a level playing field and ill withdraw my post and close the thread.
Very well, here goes:
First, we should figure out what is meant by a level playing field. If you mean that they should do no more damage, have no better defenses, and no larger array of skills than another combat profession, then I disagree. If, instead, that you mean that jedi should have risks and downsides to balance the additional skills and/or damage/defense boosts they receive, then I agree, as long as the risks equal the rewards.
im saying take out the damage/defense bonuses and bring them in line with other classes. provide all jedi templates with some form of armor buff/defense buff/dodge buff in order to make it fair for those jedi who want to have a PvP template. instead of simply giving jedi a higher damage output on the baseline... give them a larger array of skills that, if used with skill, should beat any other template in the game. Skill should be the key to success in this game... not a higher baseline.
Now I will explain the reasoning. No, it's not because of a long grind or because of something I see in a movie, read in a book or made up because of an overdose of pixie stix and Mountain Dew. It's because there are risks, albeit widely ineffectual. No other profession has the joy of facing up to 5 combat professions at a time that get advatages of first strike. No other profession has the risk of xp loss. No other profession gains skills and ranking by pvp alone. Jedi is a pvp based profession by concept, design, and execution. Jedi have 2 built in enemies: Jedi and Bounty Hunters. The pve option is always available, but eventually, all jedi get on the terminals and will be hunted.
i disagree with forcing anyone into PvP or combat in general. the devs should nerf the entire idea of granting skills/advancement based solely upon combat.
Now, let's examine the competition. Jedi: all things being equal, jedi vs jedi will always be even. Bounty Hunters: here is where it can get fun. The Bounty Hunter has a range of possibilities that give it flexibility. They must be MBH, but beyond that, the Bounty HUnter has options of several different combat and medical professions to choose from to exploit the inherent weaknesses found in every jedi template. Pistoleers have mezz, which applied properly can be very deadly. Carbineers have snares and a 40-50 meter range. When combines with BR foods, this can cut a jedi down with little muss and fuss. Rifleman, one of the most effective of templates due to first strike, cover, covershot, startle, and the wonderful snipershot. With a 65 meter range without cyber, a properly played rifle/bh can ruin a jedi's day in 3 shots. Now we get into the combat medics...you see, at doc or cm 4000, they can outheal a jedi. Couple that with dots and a good scatter pistol or proton carbine or other non cert weapons or bh weapons, they can do a ton of damage while completely controlling a fight.
i have seen this supposed "first strike" in action. It seems that people assume jedi dont have the "best equipment" (CA's, good sabers, bio clothes etc.). Why is it that Heat' on bloodfin never seems to take damage from anyone other than a jedi? i stand in theed all day and watch a great deal of PvP... all the time watching the combat logs to see who is doing what. The other day Heat' owned a swordsman, a jedi, and some form of ranged combatant (i think a carbineer but it was hard to tell what kind of weapon he was using... cause he was dead in about 20 seconds). how is this explained? The only thing im rooting for here is a profession that rewards skill... not the grind.
Equal footing would be ok if there was only the possibility of one on one battles...but that isn't the case. Jedi face multiple opponents at the same time. If the new FRS will be anything like the old, then it will get much worse. Jedi will be Special Forces permenently and attackable by gank squads. They will not suffer the xp loss as before, but their FRS points will be decimated by a good group of players. This is where other templates, specifically designed to fight jedi come into play. The TKM/MSwords/Doc combinations, for example. They can attack jedi in droves and the jedi will fall. To compensate these challenges, jedi will need to be boosted up in the pvp category. No, we aren't required to joing the FRS, but neither is a WS required to master their profession.
once again i disagree with this... no one should be forced into pvp or combat... i dont care what template they use.
Now we move to the expectations of the community. Nobody wants jedi to be the same as a TKM combo... they expect jedi to resemble what they have loved and the reason the game has the Star Wars logo and not Firefly. Jedi are what make this genre unique and marketable. If you are going to have jedi in the game, they better fit the mold of what we all know jedi are supposed to be. The only reason they got nerfed at all was due to poor programming of the original code that didn't reduce pvp damage while maintaining the pve coefficient. When you give people too much power, they want to use it. This wasn't in check with the pre-9 jedi and the resulting nerfs came to bear. Then came pub 9, 10, 11, .....24 and jedi have been constantly adjusted, mostly downward and jedi are quitting the game. This is bothe good and bad. Many quit and never play their character again, but too many give it to friends, sell it or otherwise make sure that the nature mortality rate of jedi is artificially maintained. There are many many jedi that aren't played by either the first or second owners. This is a serious problem that SOE will need to address in the near future. Their marketing of the game with jedi as the primary feature requires that there be a migration of jedi in and out of the game to maintain playability. This doesn't mean "nerf them to death" but it means that character ownership and rights of transfer of character needs to be enforced as per TOS and EULA. THis, they haven't done.
agreed. noobs with a jedi = less fun for all but the morons
So, in summary, jedi do not and should not need to be ona level playing field. They are, by design, concept, and execution, faced with a greater risk and therefore require the "alpha" status. Does this mean that there shouldn't be another Alpha class? No. In fact, most jedi would love there to be one. So instead of calling for nerfs and/or complaining here about jedi, ask the developers and the powers that be (the marketing department) to create a second or even *gasp* third alpha class. I would love to play a Nightsister Witch or whatever the heck Asajj Ventress was.
let me explain. by level playing field i meant the baseline damage, speed, etc. should be on level with other templates. A series of buffs could be added to restore jedi's power and give a more intriguing and in depth choice of templates. I am looking for ways to require SKILL to be succesful... more specials and buffs, lowered baselines, and its all about how you play the game... success that is based notupon inate speed boosts (and the like)you have because of the programming... but because you are able to manipulate your specials in a skilfull manner.
side question: everyone says CM 4000 can outheal a jedi... but how far is that jedi in the healer template? if you mean that a CM 4000 can out heal a master healer then that definitely needs to be fixed pronto! CM 4000 and Healer 4000 should NOT heal for the same. Master CM and Master healer Should heal for the same... ill explain why
a jedi is using the force to heal themselves and others... a CM is using technology to do the same.
we can all agree that the force is not somthing one could just pick up and use... neither is medicine but if i had to pick which is more "user friendly"... id probably say its the syringe full of medicine.
CM's are likely healing for more because they are using enhancers. base healing abilities are most likely in line. By all previous arguments made by those saying the higher baseline is a good thing... then your own argument defeats you. That player took the time to go to a vendor and buy equipment... and... therefore... should be able to do it better than everyone else because they spent time on it.
I think the comparison of CM 4000 and Healer 4000 (place the 4's in whiche ever column you like) is bad one. CM in this case should heal for more as the jedi has accomplished 25% of their training... not a very skilled jedi i would think. The CM is also 25% completed... but they also have technology on their side
now... master healer vs. master CM? they should heal the same. that is to say... a master healer will heal for the same amount as a master CM using enhancers
So, are you stating that they need to rewrite the whole game ? If so, why pose a fix in a specific forum? I'm not flaming you, and everyone is allowed their own opinion, but you keep voicing about our baseline and I can assure you that alot of us cant finish a player in the amount of time that "heat" did on your server. Our baseline for damage is already lowered with the loss of premium and flawless pearl drops. In addition, you state that a player has to use their skill more; Most fights I do use my skills because of the nerfs, that's all I got left-LOL. Now, yes there are a few jedi out there who have some very nice pearls in their saber and are doing massive amounts of damage but alot of us post cu jedi dont have the access to that type of power, so in your op's opinion and idea, we are already in a state of being where we have to rely on our skill and not our power base. I have seen a swordsman/tk/doc tank three jedi and come out on top, so after seeing this encounter, it had me thinking about when i started two years ago and what it is to be a jedi. I understand that you have no desire to be a jedi and understand the fun that you desire but we are already there, so there's no real reason to go further with your elaborations. In my opinion, I hope it changes - I run from most fights now cause i cant scratch them and it last for like 30 minutes against a MCM cause of their heals-LOLI have skill and have been pvping since launch so i knew what to expect when i became a jedi, but if you think we are too strong at the moment, you may need to reevaluate your research again. If you are, as I said earlier trying to balance the entire game as far as medical professions- damage - jedi defenses etc etc, your really posting in the wrong forums and need to talk in the general game forums to pitch your ideas. This forum is going to get you alot of negative feedback because your op pointed out jedi as the problem but your response calls for changes to the entire system. You really need to know more about our profession, the game as a wholeand research more before you post like this or you run the chance, as you have seen, of getting flamed. Thats That's two cents and its not a flame its a consideration to take into account.
Morpheous
Jedi padiwan( would be pwed if he didnt didn't FR2)
Kauri server