Jedi Archive

Thread: Fixing the FRS

Glzmo
Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:50 pm
#79







NomakkVincron wrote:
Maybe I missed it in all the posts, but did anyone mention the idea to not allow padawans to give Knights FRS exp? As it is right now, Knights are farming pads on a daily basis, friends and foe just to get the xp they need. I know the amount isn’t great,(something like 200xp off each) but when you consider the fact that many Jedi are now putting up grinding cities for same faction Jedi to grind at, any Knight has the opportunity to get himself/herself 5-15 kills every 3 days easily. I personally could name 4-5 enforcers that achieved it partially through just killing friendly pads.





I didn't realize this was possible.Itdefinitely needs to go, unless the Padawans are overt, then I think it is understandable, although still a problem because of the possible 'farming'.

Message Edited by Glzmo on 02-14-2005 01:54 PM



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NomakkVincron
Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:57 pm
#80



Glzmo wrote:


NomakkVincron wrote:
Maybe I missed it in all the posts, but did anyone mention the idea to not allow padawans to give Knights FRS exp? As it is right now, Knights are farming pads on a daily basis, friends and foe just to get the xp they need. I know the amount isn’t great,(something like 200xp off each) but when you consider the fact that many Jedi are now putting up grinding cities for same faction Jedi to grind at, any Knight has the opportunity to get himself/herself 5-15 kills every 3 days easily. I personally could name 4-5 enforcers that achieved it partially through just killing friendly pads.


I didn't realize this was possible. It definitely needs to go, unless the Padawans are overt, then I think it is understandable, although still a problem because of the possible 'farming'.

Message Edited by Glzmo on 02-14-2005 01:54 PM





Yeah, I think it is becoming a big problem. Maybe it isnt as big of a deal on some of the lower population servers but on bloodfin I see it daily.



Iatau Yiewica
Nomakk Vincron
Eriku'
Savera kain
JoahSaett
Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:10 pm
#81

I agree with all your points. The FRS is no gain and all loss. Becoming permanently overt with little to no benefit is not something I desire, only those that love PVP are okay with this design.

Gonna ramble for a bit, and will edit this from time to time.

2. Allow us a non-PVP alternative to gaining the titles perhaps? Or at least allow us to follow the new TEF replacement rules in some manner.

- Allow us normal FRS and PVP interaction when we are 'Special Forces' status.

- If we go 'Combatant', do not allow us to gain FRS xp from other players, or them from us. Give a lower amount of FRS xp from NPC targets to maintain our station in the FRS. The possibility of farming would be lessened with the occupational rules, and the NPC's called to deal with the Jedi. (Not to mention visability gain and dealing with BH's).

- With 'On-Leave' status our place in the FRS could be held in check until the status returns to Special Forces or Combatant.

I really feel there should be a lightside and Darkside over-faction, it could solve be tied into the FRS through introducing Light Jedi Knight and Dark Jedi Knight professions.

These professions would be simular to the non-skill point using quest and xp gain system in JTL, and would ebb and flow according to Lightside/Darkside FRS gains and loss in game.

- Lightside and Darkside points could be gained by such actions as fighting opposing FRS opponents (NPC and PC), gaining and training an apprentice, various missions, etc, etc.

One thing I would also like to touch on again is the idea of allowing Jedi 'allies', I see this idea mentioned from time to time on the forums.

1. It would be consensual, and:
- It would end if the ally attempts to attack the Jedi, or visa-versa, takes any BH mission, etc.
- They will generate no visability for the Jedi while they exist in this status.

As it is, I have no desire to pursue Knight anymore, or even level my pre-9 Jedi. There is nothing there worth grinding for. My only decent saber is now a memory, and I cannot compete for replacement pearls with the hoard of Dark Knights presently at the graveyard, pretty much everything in game outdamages me.



Joraan Sett
(Master Smuggler/Pistoleer and Smuggler's Alliance Ace Pilot.)
Joah Saett
(Jedi and Alliance Ace Pilot.)
Corbantis
Kristhas
Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:38 pm
#82

Yeah Joah.. I keep hearing about allies too. THat would be a great boon for Jedi players.. even if they limited it to say 5 people. and only changable say once every 3 weeks if it's ended. It would let Jedi finally hunt with friends without fear of getting toasted becuase we had the audacity to want to have fun.
OohBo
Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:54 pm
#83


Force Defense:
(Should be affected by Force Manipulation)


Avoid Incapacitation


The Force Manipulation mod should reduce the Force cost of the ability, but it doesn't.


Since the "avoid incap" stat mod is only a switch no other FRS mods should affect this ability.



Side Note: It's unfortunate that none of the FRS mods affect the various stat mods in Force Defender. As such, those Jedi that enter the FRS with this discipline will receive very little benefits as they progress through the ranks, in essence making the experience unrewarding.


---------------------------------------------------------


I think that there should be some modifier added to the frs, or perhaps one of the three mods that already exist should be tweaked to improve the bonuses/defenses that one receives from Force Defense. It is sad that the Defenders get left out.


Very nice compilation of requests SonGouki, nothing that will unbalance the game, only improve the quality. Keep it up!




~Colonel Ubo Cid~Jedi Padawan~
"The only thing neccessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Support this Vision of a new FRS, and help save Jedi!
DrBonzai
Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:38 am
#84

SonGouki's post is really fantastic!



DrBonzai.
johnautry613
Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:46 am
#85

SonG,


I will say one thing that I do not like in your document. I do not like the fact that, as this is a wish list, you still do no have the jedi in a seperate faction. I think this is necissary to the FRS. Not only that, but the DEV's have soemwhere along the line had a similar idea.


Let me explain:


If you read the GCW system overhaulm you will see some information on how a planetary police force will handle jedi.


If a light jedi is on a rebel controled planet and they are succesfully scaned, nothing will happen.


If a dark jedi is on a rebel controled planet and they are succesfully scaned, the rebels will call in a hit squad.


If ANY jedi is succesfully scanned on an imperial world a hit squad will come in, regardless of rank or faction.


This right there demonstrates to me that faction does not matter at all when dealing with the GCW, and therefore should not be considered a part of the FRS. They should be fully constrained by the visibility rules (minor prayer for group/jedi/guild allowances on that) and they should be 'overt' to the opposite side jedi, but they should not be in anyway openly overt to the random npc or pc rebel or imperial. It just does not make since.


Last example, and I personally hate when people do this, but the Imperial stormies did not open up on Ben when they saw him in Mos Eisly, so why should I be special?



Lazurk Autry
12 Point Weaponsmith
Vendor Lazurk's Grenades
Lazurk's Forge
BarterTown Trading Post, Tatooine.
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Unknown_Death
Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:49 am
#86

wow SonGouki your my hero! Three cheers for SonGouki hipp hip horray! Hipp hipp horray! Hipp hipp horray!



Kiteroe
-Jedi Knight-
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lajak
Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:09 am
#87

Great post sonG, especially the part about defender



_____________________________________________________
Deloth Vesteros; retired master grinder, currently master Rifleman and... yea well who knows!
Devion Vesteros; afraid of the dark... thus the flashlight! (the nicest dark jedi you'll ever meet )
Uninformed
Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:48 am
#88

Is there any reason to hope this will be fixed before the CU and the GCW Revamps?


I do not pretend to understand why Force Powers is still broken/unbalanced some eight months after the revamp.


I play a DARK Jedi Knight. So I chose a hybrid with powers. I have kept it since the revamp because I stubbornly refuse to accept how broken or how unbalanced powers is against the other templates. Hehe. Glutton for punishment I guess.


It would take no time to fix what is broken with a lot of the tree itself. I do not even dream of an FRS fix any time soon at this point. I would settle for a fix on Powers.



General Jheball Sag/Dark Lord Malegant
Leader and Founder of the STORM Brigade
ttysco
Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:52 am
#89


SonGouki wrote:


ttysco wrote:

I am sorry I don't post on this forum much but when I see something that is totally outrageous I just have to make my comment.
First off... a Rank 0 Jedi Knight will only get 750-800 FRS off another rank 0 Knight. As you rank up the FRS does increase, it might not be substantial but it is an increase which is one mistake that our lovely corrrespondant has made. Rank 1 killing a Rank 1 will yield around 1.2k per kill. Rank 2 on Rank 2 is around 1.5k; and so on. Also if a lower rank Jedi Knight kills a higher rank Knight they will receive a larger amount of xp from that ranked jedi because of the skill dissadvantage that the person was at.
Well that out of the way its not always getting 750 frs off each kill as you rank up, that is only for a Rank 0 killing a Rank 0.
The other mistake you just so happenly made... which at first I had to read about six times before I believed it is the FRS required to get to Rank 11 or Council Leader. I will quote it specifically "The total required Rank XP needed to earn the highest rank, Council Leader (Rank 11), requires a combined total of 1,490,000 Rank XP to be earned to climb through all the ranks."; are you joking me? Anyone that was in the FRS system, which our Jedi Correspondent is not, would know that FRS xp and ranks are cumulative (sp?). That means in order to get Rank 11 council leader you only need the xp it tells you... which is 500k, not no 1.5mil, 1.5mill would be impossible in a span of years!
Now your calculations on how many jedi it would take to achieve this rank is also off. As stated before as you rank up and as the opposition ranks up you gain more frs per kill (any frs jedi knight knows this) so the 750 frs per kill is irrelevant and inaccurate.
In my opinion yes you got it right on how much FRS should be increased too due to mainly the fact of theres always more then just 1v1 jedi and its usually always groups. Yet even with an increase of xp to 5k per kill you want the maintenance to be increased again?! Being at council leader you would take a hit of 6600 FRS lost a day. That means you would have to if FRS gained was increased to 5000, kill atleast 2 FRS Jedi similar rank to you, by yourself to get full XP to maintain rank. Now this may seem easy for a Jedi Chancellor(sp?) someone who is Rank 2 would have a much difficult time advancing through the ranks.
So to sum up all of this, it is clearly obvious why the FRS Jedi Knights are still trudging along with a broken FRS system. The main person that is suppose to be giving our concerns and experiences to the Devs is not even in the FRS himself. 1.490mill xp to get Council Leader, I mean come on people am I the only one who sees what our problem is. He doesn't even know how the system works yet he is the one in charge of "corresponding" the player community to the devs. I hope other people see the problem we have here, and if not I fear the worse for all of us and the Jedi population as it might never get the proper fixes it truly needs in the FRS system.

You're right, I forgot that it was cumulative. It's been a while since I bothered with the FRS... I can't stand the current system and I don't care much for PvP atm either (though the GCW update and the CU will hopefully change my viewpoint on that one). IMO that just gives more motivation to get things fixed...

As for the scaling amount of FR XP earned as you climbed the ranks, I'm not privy to that information and I have yet to see someone post the full scaling amounts throughout the ranks, so I chose to simply use the Rank 0 cap as the basis for my calculations.

Of course, my original calculations will be off due to the fact that I forgot that it was cumulative. Regardless though, I still feel the numbers need to be looked at. If perhaps people could post what the caps are throughout the ranks I could revise the original post with a more accurate estimate. However, there will still be further complications in making an estimate, since we would also have to know how XP scales based on rank differences.

You have to realize though, that with all the suggestions in the original post, balance will also have to be maintained and only some of the suggestions may be necessary if implemented. For example, if FRS Jedi were given a method to track one another and group XP was not divided then perhaps an increase in the XP caps would not be necessary. These are all factors that the devs will (hopefully) consider and balance if these changes were to come about, but all options must still be presented in order to help the devs realize the problems in the current system.

I understand everyone's frustrations with the current system, but please understand that I can only work with what I'm given. Below is a chart of what is known so far about the FRS ranks, including the info you provided earlier. Like I said, if I could get the rest of the information I should at least be able to make a more accurate estimate, but there will still be the rank differentials to consider...

RANK FRS XP INC MAINT XP CAP
0 0 0 0 15,000
1 10,000 +10k 100 25,000
2 20,000 +10k 200 35,000
3 30,000 +10k 300 45,000
4 40,000 +10k 400 70,000
5 60,000 +20k 500100,000
6 80,000 +20k 600125,000
7 100,000 +20k 700178,500
8 150,000 +50k 800225,000
9 200,000 +50k 900375,000
10 300,000 +100k 1,000575,000
11 500,000 +200k 1,100625,000







Full Xp for everybody? Do you know what that leads to... it leads to 7 jedi ganking 1 jedi... non stop. You need to put more thought into this. If you get full xp as long as you hit the person once this game turns back into gank wars.

Message Edited by ttysco on 02-15-2005 01:57 PM

Grienthumb
Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:57 am
#90

Great idea's. Thanks for letting us know some of the idea's. I really dont likethe idea of aseperate pvp system for jedi only at all.......... butthen I am no game designer at all either.
SonGouki
Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:35 pm
#91






ttysco wrote:

Full Xp for everybody? Do you know what that leads to... it leads to 7 jedi ganking 1 jedi... non stop. You need to put more thought into this. If you get full xp as long as you hit the person once this game turns back into gank wars.




That's not what I said. I mentioned that it should perhaps not be divided amongst all involved and/or by damage inflicted. I didn't, however, purpose an exact solution...


If I were to make a suggestion it may be that perhaps only the FRS Jedi performing the death blow be awarded the FR XP, if it was envisioned that FRS battles should become a one-on-one affair. However, if they were in fact envisioned to be group battles then I might suggest instead some sort of diminishing returns system based on the number of players involved in killing a target rather than a straight calculation system based on damage inflicted. Regardless though, that is a decision for the devs to make within their overall vision of the FRS, as long as it works out in practical use of course.





- SonGouki

"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

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