Jedi Archive

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I can speak for the Devs on this and tell you all that their vision of it was always a First/Alpha Strike tool. It was never ment to be a tool for escape and evasion. So again the Devs vision of Force Cloak is that it is a First/Alpha Strike tool.

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I don't use cloak, but I do have a vested interest in the way this is being handled.

It may have always been their vision for cloak to be a 1st strike tool, but it is also a great escape and evasion tool.

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QFE

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Baciacca wrote:

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GuXinglong wrote:

I think a Dev, I've seen Blixtev's name being bandied around unfairly, needs to step in here and clarify what their vision of cloak is to see if it lines up with the players vision of cloak. IF a snare is working as intended, I think powers users can live with it as long as someone up the chain comes in and clarifies the devs visionfor it.

I'm specifically thinking about the offensive versus defensive arguments in a couple of other threads. Many powers users I know usecloak as a defensive ability to *get away* from combat and recuperate. This is a completely legitimate use of an ability that takes you out of combat. To me, the new changes will do just that: remove the user from combat completely. I don't like the fact that a few people are using a few obscure dev quotes, without links to the original sources mind you (!!), to stir up the pot on this system change to the game's stealth invisibility rules.

I agree totally that the exploiting needs to stop and these changes will hopefully fix the worst ones. But I think the community needs more clear information instead of all the rumormongering going on right now.

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I can speak for the Devs on this and tell you all that their vision of it was always a First/Alpha Strike tool. It was never ment to be a tool for escape and evasion. So again the Devs vision of Force Cloak is that it is a First/Alpha Strike tool.

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If they put a snare on it, then it will only be a viable first-strike tool for those with some Defender in their templates.

Does this mean they only envision Defenders as viable first-strikers?

THE FIX FOR CLOAK IS SO SIMPLE THAT IT HAS CLOUDED YOUR MINDS.......

1. Higher FC

2. MIND COST (this one is key) to detour overuse of cloak

3. Actions towards any other player breaks cloak (healing self or channeling should not break it)

4. Realizing that jedi cloak and Ranger stealth are and should remain 2 seperate systems with seperate rules.

No matter what cloak was intended for it has now become a means for escape, not a first strike skill, and personally I like how cloak is except the healing of others and the base shut downs...

A ranger is hiding or being stealthy so yes a snare on their stealth. A jedi is forcing the mind do believe it is not seeing the jedi, so with proper FC and MIND COST (this is key) there should be no snare and self buffing, healing channeling, meditating should not be affected.

FC and MIND COST is key people, do the proper math and coding and I assure all of you that cloaking threads will dissappear from the forums.

./flameOn

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Stuyf wrote:

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Baciacca wrote:

Im refering to the following statements:

The Rifleman's Cover ability and a Jedi's Force Cloak now adhere to a common rule-set that falls in line with the new hiding/stealth system introduced with the Ranger revamp.

Here are some rules common to all types of buffs that remove you from sight (including Force Cloak):

1. Taking any offensive action reveals you instantly (currently the only exception is the Rifleman's ability Conceal Shot).

2. Interacting with some objects in the world instantly reveals you (could be switches, terminals, containers, etc)

3. Some commands cannot be executed and require you to reveal yourself before executing the command

4. All of these buffs can be "toggled off" at any time you wish to become view-able by others

5. Some non-combat actions can also reveal you (like healing for instance)

6. You are afflicted with a movement snare when you are stealthy (rooted when just camouflaged)

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1. Offensive actions consist of anything other than a heal, channel or protections (shield, armor, feedback, absorb, AI, resists, etc). So dont press your saber attacks or force drains while under cloak.

2. Using cloak to stop base takedowns will be stopped with this fix.

3. Still waiting on a list from the Devs.

4. Seems that they are making the "stealth" or cloak a toggle if it is already not that way.

5. My first impression of this is that we will not be able to heal at all. Ive been asking the Devs if this included healing ourselves or just healing others.

6. A snare is being added just like it was to AI so that Cloak is nolonger and escapse tool. The Devs first classified it to be a tool for "First Strike" ability on implementation.

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But then the snare would aply after the cloak is activated right?!!? so then its still an escape tool..... root the enemy, burstrun away and then when you're far enough cloak... you might walk slower but they can't target or attack you when you're cloaked so you can just walk away.....

Message Edited by Stuyf on 09-19-2005 06:31 PM

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Jacella wrote:
Honestly, it doesn't look like much of a nerf at all.

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Agreed Im still trying to see the real nerf to it.

the only one I see (is a snare effect BUT.. you can still cloak.. you cant be targeted is the key here)..

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antares_Kauri wrote:

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EvilAztec wrote:

If this goes through, basically I'm just going to use my multi accounts cry nerf on every other combat prof.

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There's the real SWG Jedi attitude.

antares

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Unfortunately I have to concur. I remember in days gone by: Nerf the Master Commando, Nerf TK, Nerf Combat Medic, etc. The constant process of dumbing down this game has been infuriating but worse yet are the nerf herders cryingin theirWheaties because the devs slaughtered their sacred cow.

sry dbl post

Message Edited by Novock on 09-20-2005 09:38 AM

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Baciacca wrote:

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GuXinglong wrote:

I think a Dev, I've seen Blixtev's name being bandied around unfairly, needs to step in here and clarify what their vision of cloak is to see if it lines up with the players vision of cloak. IF a snare is working as intended, I think powers users can live with it as long as someone up the chain comes in and clarifies the devs visionfor it.

I'm specifically thinking about the offensive versus defensive arguments in a couple of other threads. Many powers users I know usecloak as a defensive ability to *get away* from combat and recuperate. This is a completely legitimate use of an ability that takes you out of combat. To me, the new changes will do just that: remove the user from combat completely. I don't like the fact that a few people are using a few obscure dev quotes, without links to the original sources mind you (!!), to stir up the pot on this system change to the game's stealth invisibility rules.

I agree totally that the exploiting needs to stop and these changes will hopefully fix the worst ones. But I think the community needs more clear information instead of all the rumormongering going on right now.

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I can speak for the Devs on this and tell you all that their vision of it was always a First/Alpha Strike tool. It was never ment to be a tool for escape and evasion. So again the Devs vision of Force Cloak is that it is a First/Alpha Strike tool.

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Hmm you are not really suppose to be speaking for the devs though, thats Tigg's and TH's position you are suppose to be representing us to the devs. It seems to me from readin your posts you are in complete agreement with these changes and are not representing our frustration to the devs but rather tell us our frustration is not warranted and this makes sense.I Would argue on the merits of the case here that you don't allow a playstyle to continue for months and then out of the blue say you know its not working as intended we really intended jedi to have to tip toe around when using cloak. BTW its easier for me to use cloak with it snared to get away then it is an aplha strike. to truly sneak up on someone you are going to have to cloak cpl meters out so theyd on't see you on radar, cloak tip toe in and hope they don't move all at the risk of loosing force. To escape (minus the follow tricks and the CM ability to apply DOT to a cloaked jedi which still hasn't been fixed) all I need to do is move away from oppent and find a nice vacant space of 50 meters or so. I don't have to actually travel far to get away. That leaves me to believe the intent statement doesn't match the proposed change and is bogus. Its an attempt to justify compeletly changing the way cloak works rather than fixing the areas where iw was being abused .. looting healing others and such. Its a joke and a half.

./agree

Can we vote for another corr please? With cloak he's /shrugging and repeating what the devs said... Shows how much he cares about Jedi outside his own template/interests and also he sees Powers as a crowd control when Enhancer is really that, Powers is just a piss poor damage nuker that got 75% weaker than pre-CU and was supposed to be "a viable alternative to lightsaber".

What makes no sense is that cloak is supposed to be a first-strike tool according to the devs, yet people are saying powers is a crowd control? Make up your mind?

I DO agree that cloak in terms of PVE looting or DWB/Vette runs should not be allowed, but things like first-strike does not work very well with a profession like powers with lack of offense without a LS and practically zero defense, but of course the defenders will be happy to still have and use it. Be sure to stay tuned for nerf cries on FR3+stasis because that will be the last escape method left in the Jedi profession.

THE SIMPLE ANSWERS ARE SOMETIMES THE BEST