Jedi Archive
Thread: BH Ganking Overt Major problem when Knight returns...
navajo_joe
Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:44 pm
#53
the frs might not be like that anymore but won't know til its in testing and in live 
Phantom513
Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:25 pm
#54
Simple lesson: Do not go overt alone
I'm Full temp mls/mdef and i dont even go overt alone To easy to get your @ss kicked
chewboywa
Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:45 am
#55
DianaPrince wrote:
chewboywa wrote:
This was a danger since the first knight entered the FRS a year ago, I used to have bounty hunters with overt Jedi or the likes come after me when I was in the FRS. Not that I complain about it, I am a Jedi for a reason.
The FRS will seperate the men from the boys, newer Jedi that cannot handle this kind of PvP will not last very long in the FRS.Message Edited by chewboywa on 09-05-2005 08:38 PM
That was the old system my dear. That was when we could take 2-5 BHs at a time, or more even if we were good, then take time to finish off the Jedi's with the BH.
We also could have people in our group to fight back as well.
This is Post-Cu We are NOT as strong, and even if we were, the gank squad with the Bh is going to be ALL Jedi Knights that are going to be close to your equals no matter how good you are.
I'm NOT a 'newer' Jedi, but I am thinking of how things will be with the new system and the amount of Full Templates running around.
Also remember in the old days, Knights were not predominate, and full template Jedi were not so common either. Now they are a dime a dozen. And even if you are one of hte Best PVP Jedi on the server, 3-4 ok Jedis can take you out, Period. The only exception to this is if you run and can escape without getting a snare or root. Even if you AI yourself, you can't get away, your snare with theirs stacked on it or their root, and you are toast, even if you have FR2 to compensate for the snare somewhat.
(BTW a forced snare for AI is still stupid. If the Jedi or BH you are fighting can't snare or root you to prevent you from escaping, they shouldn't win, period. It would be different if they didn't have these skills.)
Anyway, think about it, and how things have changed, and how big of a mess this could be.
It may be they want all the Jedi that don't have the Prem Pearls like the old timers and the money for the good CA to just quit the game. I don't know. I have an edge here, but still don't think it is fair to the new Jedi either.
Holy cow! So you are saying you were able to tank 2-5 TKM/BH3000 wearing lightsaber PSG at a time?
They were the toughest to deal with my dear and I have dealt with that very situation and still survived because I managed to escape.
DianaPrince
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:48 am
#56
Holy cow! So you are saying you were able to tank 2-5 TKM/BH3000 wearing lightsaber PSG at a time?
They were the toughest to deal with my dear and I have dealt with that very situation and still survived because I managed to escape.
Um, usually pretty easily... Any full template didn't fear most BHs, especially a MD/MLS for example...
Also there really wasn't such a thing as a lightsaber PSG. They would report Lightsaber protection in the crates in error many times, but when taken from the crates or equipped, the Lightsaber protection would disappear.
So a lightsaber would cut through anything, but would still be counterattacked, blocked, or dodged by the player's profession abilities.
A MD in the Pre-Cu could easily hold their own to several elite professions if needed, and even AI and escape if needed.
Not only myself, but I have also watched several MDs dual 3 or 5 elite fighters at the same time, and easily incapp them all. - But that was pre-Cu, the good old days when Jedi wasn't just another profession and had special abilities.
Oh wait, Jedi have special abilities now, we can heal slower than a novice doc or novice cm, run barely faster than burst run foods at FR2, and can do roots, snares, and stasis - whoops, other professions can do that too..
Um, what else... Well MP has a few tricks that other professions don't, like area knockdown - wait a low level brawler can do that... Hm... Well AI does work, but you almost always die when you are to the point of needing to use it.
Oh, also Master Enhancers can revive themselves - like everyone with a hero ring can anyway (except they are punished with slow force regen for a considerable time afterward) - assuming they have enough force left to revive themselves, and if they are dead, chances are they don't.
Well MP Jedi have special tricks - Cloak, Choke (wait, CMs can pretty much throw the equivalent of a Choke), and Lightning - slow but unique, except for anyone with a shock cyber arm.
I forgot, a MD can do dominate mind to pull a creature off another player.. Wait is has a 20sec cool down timer now, and affects only one creature, other professions have the same thing, called taunt - and some even have area taunt - another thing Jedi don't have. Guess SOE knows the non-jedi are the stronger professions and can handle doing an area taunt where a MD Jedi can't. *wink
Oh, MD have great defense with no armor. Wait, TKMs also do, and stacked can have even higher defense... Oh, MDs have Aura to help them dodge an attack - oh forgot again, melee professions have a +500 COB that works exactly the same.
Oh, they can swing a lightsaber and do massive energy damage - wait, a good TKM can hit just as hard with their bare hands - faster even...
What else... Jedi's can throw a light saber, well, any ranged profession can do the same thing in effect, except the ranged professions hit for 3 times the damage of a jedi's lightsaber.
So Jedi are special, they get the ability to Cloak, I guess that is the only unique ability left...
But even though the Jedi abilities are no longer unique, they all get cool names with 'Force' added to the front of them. Like ForceAura instead of COB. But then again, they have a force bar to manage, even though they use the same amount of action and mind the other professions also use... So much for their abilities coming from the force - it just eats the force, it don't come from it.
Sad uh?
(Satire Intentional)
(BTW while on the subject of a MD's AI. It is still crazy that it now entails a forced snare - like I have said before, 90% of the ranged professions and Jedi have Snares, Roots, and Stasis abilities, so if a Jedi is fighting and tries to get away, and the person they are fighting can't do one of the above, then the Jedi kind of deserves the right to escape with AI on.
Now, not only do you get a snare with your AI, but then the Jedi or Ranged profession throws a root or additional stacked snare on you, stopping you cold. I could understand the forced snare if these were not abilities that the other professions and Jedi could not already do to you to prevent you from running, but they can, and players simply should be good enough to do this on their own and not have SOE nerf the MD profession because players let them get away.) - I keep saying this in hope that someone at SOE development with the ability to think might actually reconsiders this insane nerf on AI...
George Lucas where are you, have you seen how pathetic your Jedi have become in SWG? Do you know a Power Hammer/TKM person hits harder and is a strong as any Jedi? Don't you realize that maybe you should re-master all the movies so the Jedi use PowerHammers, as they are far more powerful than a silly light saber... Poor Yoda, no wonder he had to retreat, all you gave him was a Lightsaber, and if he only had a powerhammer or knew TKA, he could have easily stopped the Dark side of the force.
(BTW, this was my Jedi rant of the week, it wasn't directly aimed at your post in any way, I just added it because it was semi-on topic.)
Take Care all,
Di'ana
They were the toughest to deal with my dear and I have dealt with that very situation and still survived because I managed to escape.
Um, usually pretty easily... Any full template didn't fear most BHs, especially a MD/MLS for example...
Also there really wasn't such a thing as a lightsaber PSG. They would report Lightsaber protection in the crates in error many times, but when taken from the crates or equipped, the Lightsaber protection would disappear.
So a lightsaber would cut through anything, but would still be counterattacked, blocked, or dodged by the player's profession abilities.
A MD in the Pre-Cu could easily hold their own to several elite professions if needed, and even AI and escape if needed.
Not only myself, but I have also watched several MDs dual 3 or 5 elite fighters at the same time, and easily incapp them all. - But that was pre-Cu, the good old days when Jedi wasn't just another profession and had special abilities.
Oh wait, Jedi have special abilities now, we can heal slower than a novice doc or novice cm, run barely faster than burst run foods at FR2, and can do roots, snares, and stasis - whoops, other professions can do that too..
Um, what else... Well MP has a few tricks that other professions don't, like area knockdown - wait a low level brawler can do that... Hm... Well AI does work, but you almost always die when you are to the point of needing to use it.
Oh, also Master Enhancers can revive themselves - like everyone with a hero ring can anyway (except they are punished with slow force regen for a considerable time afterward) - assuming they have enough force left to revive themselves, and if they are dead, chances are they don't.
Well MP Jedi have special tricks - Cloak, Choke (wait, CMs can pretty much throw the equivalent of a Choke), and Lightning - slow but unique, except for anyone with a shock cyber arm.
I forgot, a MD can do dominate mind to pull a creature off another player.. Wait is has a 20sec cool down timer now, and affects only one creature, other professions have the same thing, called taunt - and some even have area taunt - another thing Jedi don't have. Guess SOE knows the non-jedi are the stronger professions and can handle doing an area taunt where a MD Jedi can't. *wink
Oh, MD have great defense with no armor. Wait, TKMs also do, and stacked can have even higher defense... Oh, MDs have Aura to help them dodge an attack - oh forgot again, melee professions have a +500 COB that works exactly the same.
Oh, they can swing a lightsaber and do massive energy damage - wait, a good TKM can hit just as hard with their bare hands - faster even...
What else... Jedi's can throw a light saber, well, any ranged profession can do the same thing in effect, except the ranged professions hit for 3 times the damage of a jedi's lightsaber.
So Jedi are special, they get the ability to Cloak, I guess that is the only unique ability left...
But even though the Jedi abilities are no longer unique, they all get cool names with 'Force' added to the front of them. Like ForceAura instead of COB. But then again, they have a force bar to manage, even though they use the same amount of action and mind the other professions also use... So much for their abilities coming from the force - it just eats the force, it don't come from it.
Sad uh?
(Satire Intentional)
(BTW while on the subject of a MD's AI. It is still crazy that it now entails a forced snare - like I have said before, 90% of the ranged professions and Jedi have Snares, Roots, and Stasis abilities, so if a Jedi is fighting and tries to get away, and the person they are fighting can't do one of the above, then the Jedi kind of deserves the right to escape with AI on.
Now, not only do you get a snare with your AI, but then the Jedi or Ranged profession throws a root or additional stacked snare on you, stopping you cold. I could understand the forced snare if these were not abilities that the other professions and Jedi could not already do to you to prevent you from running, but they can, and players simply should be good enough to do this on their own and not have SOE nerf the MD profession because players let them get away.) - I keep saying this in hope that someone at SOE development with the ability to think might actually reconsiders this insane nerf on AI...
George Lucas where are you, have you seen how pathetic your Jedi have become in SWG? Do you know a Power Hammer/TKM person hits harder and is a strong as any Jedi? Don't you realize that maybe you should re-master all the movies so the Jedi use PowerHammers, as they are far more powerful than a silly light saber... Poor Yoda, no wonder he had to retreat, all you gave him was a Lightsaber, and if he only had a powerhammer or knew TKA, he could have easily stopped the Dark side of the force.
(BTW, this was my Jedi rant of the week, it wasn't directly aimed at your post in any way, I just added it because it was semi-on topic.)
Take Care all,
Di'ana
DarthIvory
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:04 am
#57
from what iv seen All of you are talking about the Old Force rank system, I really dont think the New Force rank system is goin to be All Pvp and Light / Dark Knight's Are Not going to Have to be Overt. this is Just what people have Told me any way's . I really think SOE know's 100% How its going to Work But do you really think Tigg's would tell us? hell no!!! that would be to easy
Pearls Need to be fixed and there dum azz exp pack has to come out before there gona bring back the FRS ,
DianaPrince
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:05 am
#58
Stop crying. That's exactly the way it should be. The Jedi population is getting an obsene amount of slack in PvP; no xp loss upon cloning, BH's can't take your mission out of spite. If you had been traveling with a group while overt the way you're SUPPOSED to, to avoid ganking, your friends could've handled the overt jedi and you could've taken the BH on yourself. As for Knights becoming unplayable. GOOD. There are too many Jedi atm anyway. I hope alot more Jedi have your mentality because then I will be able to play mine without having to feel like I'm playing KOTOR
Well I wasn't crying, just trying to get people to think and debate a bit... But if you need a tissue, I will be happy to send you one. (j/k)
BTW, I was traveling with a group of 8 people, the gank squad was 3 groups of 8.. I personally got 7 of the Jedi on me because they were having a heck of a time killing me. (The jedi that dbed me said they were yelling for help to kill me in Vent, because they were afraid I would get away at the very least if not take a few more with me.) - And BTW, it was funny and I and the gank squad that killed me talked after the fight and had no hard feelings and laughed about it... (See again, I wasn't crying.)
As for this controlling the Jedi population? How? I am full template. I can die and even lose XP for the rest of the time I play the game. Nothing is lost for me, just like EVERY other Jedi out there, as most are now full template. XP loss means nothing even if it were back in game for PVP.
See again, you aren't thinking this through... How will this type of situation remove Jedi from the game? It won't, in fact it is going to bring more Jedi out, as they will be traveling in packs all the time. Where we pretty much don't have to do so now, and can just mind our own business.
Also Knights won't become unplayable, the ones that are good at ganking will basically rule the galaxy. So if you aren't a Jedi, be ready to be a flee in the game, as Knights will get more power and crush you every time you want to PVP. (Think bottom of Vader's boots if you want to participate with a non-jedi in the GCW - or even if you are a low level jedi)
Anyway, I appreciate your post, but you really need to think this out a bit more, and stop whining about there being too many Jedi. That is something SOE created with the dbl xp and dbl conversion of FS xp weeks. Not something the Jedi themselves created.
I myself kind of wish they hadn't done this as well. Before the CU and the XP dbling, a Jedi like myself was kind of unique, rare, and respected. (Let alone the months I spent becoming and gaining XP as a Jedi.) Now every 11yr old that had a couple weeks free is a Jedi. But again, you can't even blame them, blame SOE and their screwed up CU development team that was finally disbanded - thank God.
Take Care and above all, have fun in game. (Even when I died I had a good time, but it did create some further thoughts on the game, that is all.)
Di'ana
Well I wasn't crying, just trying to get people to think and debate a bit... But if you need a tissue, I will be happy to send you one. (j/k)
BTW, I was traveling with a group of 8 people, the gank squad was 3 groups of 8.. I personally got 7 of the Jedi on me because they were having a heck of a time killing me. (The jedi that dbed me said they were yelling for help to kill me in Vent, because they were afraid I would get away at the very least if not take a few more with me.) - And BTW, it was funny and I and the gank squad that killed me talked after the fight and had no hard feelings and laughed about it... (See again, I wasn't crying.)
As for this controlling the Jedi population? How? I am full template. I can die and even lose XP for the rest of the time I play the game. Nothing is lost for me, just like EVERY other Jedi out there, as most are now full template. XP loss means nothing even if it were back in game for PVP.
See again, you aren't thinking this through... How will this type of situation remove Jedi from the game? It won't, in fact it is going to bring more Jedi out, as they will be traveling in packs all the time. Where we pretty much don't have to do so now, and can just mind our own business.
Also Knights won't become unplayable, the ones that are good at ganking will basically rule the galaxy. So if you aren't a Jedi, be ready to be a flee in the game, as Knights will get more power and crush you every time you want to PVP. (Think bottom of Vader's boots if you want to participate with a non-jedi in the GCW - or even if you are a low level jedi)
Anyway, I appreciate your post, but you really need to think this out a bit more, and stop whining about there being too many Jedi. That is something SOE created with the dbl xp and dbl conversion of FS xp weeks. Not something the Jedi themselves created.
I myself kind of wish they hadn't done this as well. Before the CU and the XP dbling, a Jedi like myself was kind of unique, rare, and respected. (Let alone the months I spent becoming and gaining XP as a Jedi.) Now every 11yr old that had a couple weeks free is a Jedi. But again, you can't even blame them, blame SOE and their screwed up CU development team that was finally disbanded - thank God.
Take Care and above all, have fun in game. (Even when I died I had a good time, but it did create some further thoughts on the game, that is all.)
Di'ana
DianaPrince
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:10 am
#59
Thanks for giving my post thought and continuing the debate.
I hope my post and the others in here get more people to think about this a bit, so it doesn't become an unknown pending train wreck like we saw with many aspects of the CU.
Take Care,
Di'ana
I hope my post and the others in here get more people to think about this a bit, so it doesn't become an unknown pending train wreck like we saw with many aspects of the CU.
Take Care,
Di'ana
DianaPrince
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:22 am
#60
Is anyone forgetting that you had the option to RUN once the BH hit you? That would have released you from Stasis. I think people screw themselves with their template choices or their tactics.
First, as for screwing with my template choice, I have kept the same one for a long time, and I haven't lost a one on one Jedi Duel to date - nor I have a lost to a BH since I become Full template. So if you think my template is bad, I kind of disagree.
Ok, as for the stasis and run thing - um, it isn't quite that easy.
Sure it would have released me from stasis, but they immediately snared, and rooted me. (Several Jedi, can stack roots and snares you know.) And in sequence kept me pretty much in one spot.
I was able to actually run about 500m, but was caught by a cloaked Jedi that Rooted me again, their friends arrived on bikes and ForceRan, and finished the battle. I tried to AI, as long as I could and fight for an opening - i.e. root them, knock them down, and attempt to distance myself with FR, etc.
I am not a super hero Jedi, but I do ok, but when you have several Jedi on you, with abilities equal to yourself, Good luck on the surviving thing. I'm also a MD, so I really don't drop easily.
The other gank squads had the rest of my group pinned as well, even though we were able to defeat a few jedi in the process.
I'm sure I made mistakes, and I'm sure there is a possible way that I could of pulled off a better retreat. I did root and get away from them once, so it is possible.
However, the issues of the fight are kind of moot, as that is not what I wanted people putting thought into here.
Thanks for the input,
Di'ana
First, as for screwing with my template choice, I have kept the same one for a long time, and I haven't lost a one on one Jedi Duel to date - nor I have a lost to a BH since I become Full template. So if you think my template is bad, I kind of disagree.
Ok, as for the stasis and run thing - um, it isn't quite that easy.
Sure it would have released me from stasis, but they immediately snared, and rooted me. (Several Jedi, can stack roots and snares you know.) And in sequence kept me pretty much in one spot.
I was able to actually run about 500m, but was caught by a cloaked Jedi that Rooted me again, their friends arrived on bikes and ForceRan, and finished the battle. I tried to AI, as long as I could and fight for an opening - i.e. root them, knock them down, and attempt to distance myself with FR, etc.
I am not a super hero Jedi, but I do ok, but when you have several Jedi on you, with abilities equal to yourself, Good luck on the surviving thing. I'm also a MD, so I really don't drop easily.
The other gank squads had the rest of my group pinned as well, even though we were able to defeat a few jedi in the process.
I'm sure I made mistakes, and I'm sure there is a possible way that I could of pulled off a better retreat. I did root and get away from them once, so it is possible.
However, the issues of the fight are kind of moot, as that is not what I wanted people putting thought into here.
Thanks for the input,
Di'ana
DianaPrince
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:28 am
#61
dont go knight then
If my jaded view of the FRS system in the new post-cu happens, I probably won't.
Sad to have worked on something for more 2yrs, and not get to participate in it because it is poorly thought out in implmentation when solutions are there that would make my jaded view of the possible future FRS just a hyperbole.
I hope I'm way wrong, but if this gets some additional thought put into this subject that might get people to think about it, and devs to pay attention, then it is worth my time to post a few words.
Take Care,
Di'ana
If my jaded view of the FRS system in the new post-cu happens, I probably won't.
Sad to have worked on something for more 2yrs, and not get to participate in it because it is poorly thought out in implmentation when solutions are there that would make my jaded view of the possible future FRS just a hyperbole.
I hope I'm way wrong, but if this gets some additional thought put into this subject that might get people to think about it, and devs to pay attention, then it is worth my time to post a few words.
Take Care,
Di'ana
noxin
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:33 am
#62
Rugburn wrote:
chewboywa wrote:
MasterJedi2003 wrote:
This isn't new, and it was worse pre-cu, and worse when TEFs were around.
Not to forget about those warcry spamming TKM or fencer bounty hunters.
I have a pre publish 9 Jedi. I had the tons of fun when saber tefs were around. You guys now days have it way to easy. I would love for them to bring back saber tefs.
100% agree i have always wanted that part back when you realy needed to be carefull,but in the curent system i dont think it will work as good as it did
NoviceRangerFlurry
Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:00 am
#63
Skwall wrote:
Being Jedi is a risk, Being a Jedi/Overt is a bigger risk.
I play both sides, and the problem really lies on you. You should realize all of the possible situations that could arise from being overt + jedi.
Ex) Ideathblow 2 overts solo, I then recieve a tell saying they would like to duel, I say, sure but let me go covert. (reasoning for going covert is because these 2 were planning to stall me just so they could call in some reinforcements for gank me). As soon as I tell them I'm going covert, they tell me what they were planning to do.
So, lesson learned, SOE has forced players to gank. If your'e going to be overt and that happens in that situation, you want to
- let your groupmembers know to take off the overts on you so you can concentrate on the BH.
- That or just bail out of the battle (usually enemies won't stray too far from the group).
With that being said, its just the game mechanics, working as intended, and you must assume the risk of being both Overt and a Jedi.
In the old FRS knight's were always overt! And there was no choice, you wanted to be a knight(roleplay) you had to be overt/SF...
Just have to wait and see what this new FRS is all about!
This is also why Jedi were so UBER post CU, you'd need to be to stand any chance!
Message Edited by NoviceRangerFlurry on 09-09-2005 08:01 PM
NoviceRangerFlurry
Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:03 am
#64
chewboywa wrote:
MasterJedi2003 wrote:
This isn't new, and it was worse pre-cu, and worse when TEFs were around.
Not to forget about those warcry spamming TKM or fencer bounty hunters.
BH attack'ed and your Buddy's could heal and help you!
iskareot
Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:05 am
#65
winning answer --- this is EXACTLY why I think the FRS will weed out some carebare issues. -- or I hope.
paolo_ikro wrote:
Sorry if this comes across as negative, but that is how it was under the old system, it's nothing new.
1) Everyone who was a knight pre CU will remember this, this is one of the things that went with being a rank member. There are certain downfalls to holding a priviledged title/class, this is one of them.
2) Pre CU the best advise was don't enter the ranking system unless you are happy with your template, and accept that you can/will be ganked and you can/will lose both Jedi XP and ranking XP as a result of death.
3) We don't know what the FRS will be like, if/when it comes back, so until then, play as normal and enjoy yourself
