Jedi Archive
Thread: BH Ganking Overt Major problem when Knight returns...
Rugburn wrote:
Thorkahn wrote:
After reading this thread, I agree that the current BH system, pending FRS, is broken.
That said, I think the first issue is how the BH tef is working. Based upon the very little documentation, once a BH tef is applied, it is supposed to limit all combat to 1 vs 1, regardless of GCW status.
IE, even when combatant or SF, once the BH tef is applied, the other tefs should become negated.
Even with always overt status for FRS, this type of application for BH tef would prevent gank squads all around.
As for comments regarding PreCU Jedi vs PostCU Jedi, the reality is that with a combat lvl system, lvl 80 is lvl 80 regardless of class. The only difference then becomes armor and damage. Since Jedi cannot wear armor and PostCU glow sticks don't come close to the common place 1200 max damage weapons, it is clear that Jedi are weaker by comparison all around.
PreCU, I used to watch Knights, single handed, take on 3 to 5 BHs and win. Obviously SOE has even realized their own nerf to jedi when they at least try to make a 1 vs 1 system.
As for XP loss, I think it should be removed from the game, and for several reasons.
1) Jedi, pending FRS implementation, is weaker than other double elites. This is especially true considering the stats for glow sticks.
2) The volume of Jedi XP needed for mastering a tree or earning a branch is already high enough that we do not need penalties. Loosing FRS standing is penalty enough for any ambitious Jedi.
3) This is a game and as such is supposed to be fun. Loosing XP is not fun, especially when considering item 2.
4) Removing the penaly will eliminate allot of crying and make more peeps comfortable with PVP, thus making the game more enjoyable for more players.
Where should FRS go?
Bottom line, to make Jedi worth the work and worth having, FRS should simply raise combat level. IE, a knight should be like lvl 82, etc. Max lvl like 85 at top.
/peaceout
You were doing good till you said what I marked in red.. I dont think people understand the scope of what you are saying. Ok, lets imagine a system with no xp loss. What wouldwe have????? We would have a serious increase of Jedi completing their temps in very short order. We would also have a system where a BH goes to kill his mark and the jedi says "Hey Mr. BH, if I let you kill me, could we split the cash?". I mean, why would a Jedi need to fight back if he has nothing to lose??? Anytime you have a PvP system where there is money gain, you need the other side to lose something... I like the current system. The BH has a reason to win, and so does the Jedi
Fari enogh, except that with a lvl based combat system, the reward for being a jedi is not there.
A master BH / Master Doc is stronger than a lvl 80 jedi with a PostCU glow stick.
As long as this is the case, then the XP penalty should be removed, until the Jedi enters the FRS.
Then the penalty should be eventual removal from FRS and having to do the knight trails again, as an example.
Also, as long as Jedi are penalized for loosing, then the BH should also be penalized. Simple solution there is that they are penalized the bounty amount and that the BH bank account can go negative.
Until SOE can deomonstrate some real thoughful implementation, then penalties should be removed. All SOE is good at atm is removing stuff and making stuff not work anymore. As long as we have to play in a mostly broken system then paying for a subscription is penalty enough.
Talondir wrote:
dont go knight then
ROLF
Thats what I call an intelligent and thoughtful response.
NOT!
Argon2112 wrote:
i cudnt be bothered to read ur whole post lol buti get the idea... yer v gud point!!!
A bh can easily gank 1 jedi knight with 10 people!!! this 1 bh can shoot his mark and have a bunch of friends overt around the corner and lead the jedi into a trap... get his reward without needing to fight.... this can be very bad for jedi knights indeed!!!
maybe u said dat ... its 2am cba to readbut v serious issue yesh
suffering from CBA syndrome are we vidge?
Thorkahn wrote:
Rugburn wrote:
Thorkahn wrote:
After reading this thread, I agree that the current BH system, pending FRS, is broken.
That said, I think the first issue is how the BH tef is working. Based upon the very little documentation, once a BH tef is applied, it is supposed to limit all combat to 1 vs 1, regardless of GCW status.
IE, even when combatant or SF, once the BH tef is applied, the other tefs should become negated.
Even with always overt status for FRS, this type of application for BH tef would prevent gank squads all around.
As for comments regarding PreCU Jedi vs PostCU Jedi, the reality is that with a combat lvl system, lvl 80 is lvl 80 regardless of class. The only difference then becomes armor and damage. Since Jedi cannot wear armor and PostCU glow sticks don't come close to the common place 1200 max damage weapons, it is clear that Jedi are weaker by comparison all around.
PreCU, I used to watch Knights, single handed, take on 3 to 5 BHs and win. Obviously SOE has even realized their own nerf to jedi when they at least try to make a 1 vs 1 system.
As for XP loss, I think it should be removed from the game, and for several reasons.
1) Jedi, pending FRS implementation, is weaker than other double elites. This is especially true considering the stats for glow sticks.
2) The volume of Jedi XP needed for mastering a tree or earning a branch is already high enough that we do not need penalties. Loosing FRS standing is penalty enough for any ambitious Jedi.
3) This is a game and as such is supposed to be fun. Loosing XP is not fun, especially when considering item 2.
4) Removing the penaly will eliminate allot of crying and make more peeps comfortable with PVP, thus making the game more enjoyable for more players.
Where should FRS go?
Bottom line, to make Jedi worth the work and worth having, FRS should simply raise combat level. IE, a knight should be like lvl 82, etc. Max lvl like 85 at top.
/peaceout
You were doing good till you said what I marked in red.. I dont think people understand the scope of what you are saying. Ok, lets imagine a system with no xp loss. What wouldwe have????? We would have a serious increase of Jedi completing their temps in very short order. We would also have a system where a BH goes to kill his mark and the jedi says "Hey Mr. BH, if I let you kill me, could we split the cash?". I mean, why would a Jedi need to fight back if he has nothing to lose??? Anytime you have a PvP system where there is money gain, you need the other side to lose something... I like the current system. The BH has a reason to win, and so does the Jedi
Fari enogh, except that with a lvl based combat system, the reward for being a jedi is not there.
A master BH / Master Doc is stronger than a lvl 80 jedi with a PostCU glow stick.
As long as this is the case, then the XP penalty should be removed, until the Jedi enters the FRS.
Then the penalty should be eventual removal from FRS and having to do the knight trails again, as an example.
Also, as long as Jedi are penalized for loosing, then the BH should also be penalized. Simple solution there is that they are penalized the bounty amount and that the BH bank account can go negative.
Until SOE can deomonstrate some real thoughful implementation, then penalties should be removed. All SOE is good at atm is removing stuff and making stuff not work anymore. As long as we have to play in a mostly broken system then paying for a subscription is penalty enough.
The penalty for jedi losing needs to remain.. Period. I do agree that Bh's need some sort of penalty aswell. I'm sure if you ask a Jedi he/she would want to win 100% of the time, and so would the BH. There needs to be a balance. Removing xp would create a non-fighting system cause the Jedi has nothing to lose.. Do Bh's win all the time?..no Do Jedi win all the time?..no. You have to realize that Jedi is no longer the alpha clase it was pre-cu, so you cant sit there and dervish a bh to death.. The current system isnt perfect, but it would less so if you removed xp loss....
Message Edited by Rugburn on 09-07-2005 02:39 PM
Simple answer for you DON'T GET INTO THE FRS if you are worried about this. I myself can't wait for the frs to be perm overt and pvp. I love to pvp win or lose.
DianaPrince wrote:
Just had an incident today, was Overt (ya I know).
A factionally Opposed Jedi Caught up to me, Stasised me, waited for their friend, a BH that had my mark catch up.
The BH shot me once, then two other overt Jedis showed up, and I lost the battle. The first Jedi is even the one that DeathBlowed me.
However, the BH, got his full reward of 230+k, and I lost my 450k.
Now I understand that this is PVP and all... But once the BH shot me, None of my friends could heal or help me, but his friends could continue to kill me, while he watched and waited for his reward.
When Knights come back to game and we are permanently overt, all BHs will have to do is what this one did, Get a Gank squad of overt or other Jedi Knights, and not only get the FRS and PVP ranking, but the BH with his one shot will make you lose XP in the process. (Great for Knights wanting the PVP FRS as well, as the BHs will be able to track the Jedis for them to kill.)
Is this the 1 on 1 BH/Jedi that SOE envisions?
I don't think so, and if it is, Knights won't survive unless they run in packs of other Knights all the Time, especially now that Jedi are not even 1.5x a normal profession, and good TKM/Doc can kill most MDefs.
Does anyone else find this wrong? Why wouldn't the BH TEF also work to prevent others from attacking me, just like it prevents others from healing me?
Wouldn't this make more sense? When the BH hits you, you should only be attackable by the BH, not his group of Overt friends.
So if you get your Knight back, and are overt, be on the look out for the Massive BH/Jedi Gank Squads again.
Someone, please let the devs know that this will destroy the GCW. Even now, I don't want to PVP Overt anymore, as The Guild chats go wild to see if anyone in their guild has your mission, and they keep ya alive long enough for the BH to arrive.
It would be different if this was pre-CU, and I could hold my own against 5 people, and use AI or FR to escape a trap.
And no, I'm not whining, as I was XP capped, so it didn't mean much to me at this point, but seriously got me thinking.
Knights will become unplayable and BH/Jedi Ganks will rule once again.
Message Edited by DianaPrince on 09-05-2005 05:48 PM
well, Then People that think that the reward is not enough for the risk, Dont go Knight then
Thorkahn wrote:
acmtalk wrote:
More Power = More riskJedi knight + ranks Will give you more abilities(blocking,force dmg,etc..) + more force.. If you wanna go knight you better know of the risks, and Dont be such a "noobie" to fall in a BH trap...
If they make the FRS, what you are suggesting, then the risk vs reward for those in the FRS makes penalties understandable.
That is if SOE can create an FRS that actually works with skills that work. Considering the number of skills that currnetly dont work, I am not hopeful that they have the ability to create something the brings the reward back to Jedi.
That said, there still is no reward for becoming a Jedi in a PostCU combat lvl system. As such, the penalties should be removed.
If the FRS actually makes Jedi more powerful than non-Jedi, then I welcome the penalties.
I just don't have any faith that SOE can do the job.
I know that it would sux.. But oh well.. Last thing that we need in this game is to make jedi even more imbalanced to other profs
MasterJedi2003 wrote:
This isn't new, and it was worse pre-cu, and worse when TEFs were around.
Not to forget about those warcry spamming TKM or fencer bounty hunters.
chewboywa wrote:
MasterJedi2003 wrote:
This isn't new, and it was worse pre-cu, and worse when TEFs were around.
Not to forget about those warcry spamming TKM or fencer bounty hunters.
I have a pre publish 9 Jedi. I had the tons of fun when saber tefs were around. You guys now days have it way to easy. I would love for them to bring back saber tefs.
Don't go Knight, plain and simple. Shinto happens, get over it and play the game.
If you guys wanna be friggen easter bunnies make a Wookie crafter who doesn't do anything in-game worth a damn and PRETEND he's a Jedi.
Seriously, just have to suck it up, and if ya don't like it, don't go knight, that's all ya gotta do.
I get ganked overt all the time, do I whine? No, I think it makes for good story.
If ya'll can't play the game and at least force yourself to have a little fun with any given situation, then it isn't a game anymore, and it's only your own fault for letting yourself get to that point.