Jedi Archive
Thread: the final straw
OckVofad
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:42 am
#53
I can tell you that the FS quests can be done by a non-combatant including the sith assassin and camp parts. There is a post buried in the TC forums of someone who did this to test it out. The devs also decreased the HAM and power of these mobs for non-combatants.
As for the rest of your post i'll say this. It is very difficult to truly role-play in a MMORPG like in a pen and paper game. Alot of gamers nowadays have never played those types of games. The modern compter RPG is not about roleplay it is about stat management or choosing what type of mod your avatar will have.
The only place where I have seen role-play truly enforced is in MUDs. I have given up expecting it from large-scale, commercialRPGs.
JACKALJOE
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:51 am
#54
biwan: whats the big deal? i mean jedi is a combat proff? you do realize that to be a jedi you must fight...do some combat proffs heck do em all! cause trust me as a jedi youre gonna get shot at by just about every one of them!! learn how they work by experiencing them. but i mean quiting a game because you want to do only one class (non combat)..to unlock another class JEDI (combat!!) makes not a whole lot of sense. i mean they did say they want you to experience the game a lil before you get jedi. this is in no way a slam to anyone doing non combat proffs as they are very valuable in this game! but please realize that to be a jedi is combat...if you live inside a cantina and never try anything else. then in my opinion you dont deserve nor are you ready to be a jedi. again no slam to any non combatants YOU ARE APPRECIATED AND RESPECTED.
glim3mer
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:54 am
#55
Unlike common belief not all Jedi are PvP puppets 
, We are broken though in the sense that as a melee profession we are not the strongest Swordsmen with less melee defense and some med skills can hold a better ground vs some higher end mobs. I do see that you guys are getting screwed left, right and center cause they are making it very dificulty and they are forcing you to do things you dont want to, but ask yourself this, did I want to do 32 professions? hmm? obviously not, I dint mind doing all the combat professions but I was forced to do all the entertainer professions as well and the crafting too. My 2nd holocron said be a Musician and my third said be a Droid Engineer. So why should you not brake your "characters background" in order to become jedi where so many of us had to? are you special? (not a flame or troll)
, We are broken though in the sense that as a melee profession we are not the strongest Swordsmen with less melee defense and some med skills can hold a better ground vs some higher end mobs. I do see that you guys are getting screwed left, right and center cause they are making it very dificulty and they are forcing you to do things you dont want to, but ask yourself this, did I want to do 32 professions? hmm? obviously not, I dint mind doing all the combat professions but I was forced to do all the entertainer professions as well and the crafting too. My 2nd holocron said be a Musician and my third said be a Droid Engineer. So why should you not brake your "characters background" in order to become jedi where so many of us had to? are you special? (not a flame or troll)Now they are changing this system to add a more constructive gamestyle to it, for sure amny people are not going to like it, I for one I am going to do the guests cause I am a Pro PvE jedi.
Those jedi you see camping Theed with there overt group of friends (those are the guys that are killing jedi) why? cause it makes too many people whine and we get nerfed all the time.
You shouldnt even bother for jedi if you feel sorry for current jedi cause then youll just feel sorry for yourself and quit this game, I suggest you keep doing what makes you happy in this game and do some of those quests slowly and have fun. Trying to grind this new system is not a good idea and the are taking precautionairy measures by implementing a cycle system of 3 weeks or so.
Another thing is that there are currently too many jedi that have unlocked. and the big problem is that too many complain about so being so many jedi and yet on the same time so many people complain that they want to get there jedi pub 9-10 unlockers. How is SOE giving out more jedi going to solve the issue of jedi overfload? its not and all the pub 9-10 unlockers (actually not all cause there is many people that understand) dont care and the attitute is I dont care I earned it. So SOE when faced with the delema of making customer happy and losing product or fixing problem and losing some customer....guess what, they are going to save there game. anyways that another story all together.
Bottom line all Im saying is that Jedi is way to hard to grind so even if you do get it you will quit! A bounch of my friends got jedi and guess what? they have quit! youll say but why? I told you its extremely dumb the amount of time required. So your not missing much.
All I want is Jedi to be the stronger in PvE, I dont care about PvP a saber 4/0/0/4 enhancer 2/0/0/0 healer 2/0/0/0 can hold of a BH no problem. If your looking to join GCW and join those fools on Theed thats a diferrent story then yes...youll need FOTM minimum.
These are just some thoughs, I wasent intending on basking you, you made a good point and I respect...these are just my though...from a person that already has jedi and isnt FOTM by choice
Alristico
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:54 am
#56
why do you think that the second slot opens upon making knight? I was pretty sure you get the second slot upon making padawan or maybe less.
also I know many of the badges require combatants but it wouldn't be impossible to get them. You just need to join a group and you can do the warren, a corvette, a theme park (jabba most likely), and thats prolly all you need after the poi badges.
JACKALJOE
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:58 am
#57
biwan: also one other point... in the new system it appears from the test center that the unlocking system has to do with most badges you can get from exploration and other non combat activites.. so maybe there is hope after all for non combats to get their jedi. so dont give up yet.. theres still a chance for ya id say!
Diorchas
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:00 am
#58
WarNerve,
You're right... I could. But as a Knight, am I not open to PvP at any time? Maybe I don't understand the way the system works (and I freely admit that may be the case), but I thought that a Knight is permanently overt (or might as well be as far as PvP goes). And if that is the case, all my roleplaying will make no difference at all once a PvPer who really IS a Jedi Master comes and wipes the floor with me.
And I can guarantee you... there will be scores and scores of non-roleplay Jedi who would grief me to no end if I were just a Knight claiming to be a Master. You have to know that's true.
And that all misses the point anyway. The point is that there should be a way for roleplayers to earn Mastery without having to play a game they hate and that has nothing with how Jedi are supposed to be. I'll paraphrase the character of Yoda here, as he had a couple lines that said it best:
"Wars not make one great"
and
"The Jedi uses the Force for defense, never for attack."
I may have gotten the exact wording wrong, but you get my point.
Diorchas
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:16 am
#59
I knew it would happen sooner or later. Someone finally accused me of wanting it easy. (AxeGrinder)
Maybe you didn't really read the rest of the thread, Axe, where I explained what I wanted and didn't want. Maybe you just chose to read the things that confirmed your already-held opinion of roleplayers and conveniently disregarded all the things that didn't fit your conception of us.
But because I'm a sucker for making myself understood let me address your points here.
I don't want it to be easy. In fact, I specifically said I want it to be extremely hard. The problem I have with the system as it is designed for Pub 10 is that it is geared exclusively to powergamers, PvPers and people who are willing to spend all their free time grinding. Some people (like me) would rather roleplay than powergame, dislike PvP intensely and simply have too much going on in our real lives to be able to dedicate that sort of time to a grind.
Still, I would not want to take away those peoples' rights to have fun the way they want to in this game. Even though I'd LIKE to see a system that demands Jedi roleplay, I know that's not feasible. But at least they could make a system where roleplayers and casual gamers aren't expressly excluded from being able to adequately play Jedi. Why should Jedi Masters be only the best PvPers? Indeed, I'd argue that the majority of hardcore PvPers are exactly the kind of people who SHOULDN'T be Jedi Masters because they have little to no interest in upholding what it means to be Jedi as defined by Star Wars canon.
The whole point is that the Devs have made this game into something that doesn't resemble Star Wars at all. They are catering to one section of their playerbase and completely spitting in the face of another. The reason I even took the time to post on this forum, knowing as I did that sooner or later I'd get someone flaming me, is because I've gotten so disgusted at the Devs for catering to powergamers that I just had to put in my couple of cents before I quit.
Roleplayers add atmosphere to any game, because they do their best to flesh out the game world. The SWG Devs will find, if they continue down this path, that disregarding the RPers, who are generally some of the more intelligent and dedicated fans of the game world (please note I said "generally"), is the surest path to disaster they could take. What they are doing right now is taking the path of least resistance and appeasing the powergamers. What they're doing is easier than actually making an effort to create a viable, interesting gameworld that rewards roleplaying as much as powergaming. And I'm just tired of it.
Diorchas
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:24 am
#60
Raistlin,
I agree with you about Jedi training. But you're wrong about the end goal. Jedi are not about combat. They train in combat to defend themselves and those who need defending. Using the Force for agression is Dark Side.
But it's a pointless argument, because the Devs have chosen to completely ignore any semblance of continuity. That's why I'm upset. Yes, the Jedi are great warriors. Yes, they sometimes need to fight. But they are not the agressive killers that the Devs have forced them to be in-game.
Jedi in SWG are a "combat profession" for two reasons. One, because the Devs made them that way and Two, because most of the players who have attained one simply have no vested interest in playing a Jedi AS a Jedi.
Diorchas
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:37 am
#61
Buxley,
First let me say that I'm not taking issue with your post. I think it was reasonable and I actually agree with most of it.
That said, there is a fine line between being "practical" and being "lazy." There has GOT to be a way to encourage people to roleplay Jedi. If it means creating a system whereby they need to drastically expand the power of their database, then why can't they do that? It's not like they don't have the money.
Speaking of money... I understand and accept that SOE is a business and has a bottom line. But no one will convince me that their profit margin in this game is so slim that they can't take a brave stand and actually do something revolutionary in the MMO field. I mean, if the only thing keeping them from implementing the KotOR Light/Dark points system is the power/capacity of their database, then that's easily fixed. Buy/create a better database. Dedicate more human resources to dynamic content. Hire full time writers to write involved, engaging quests and story arcs.
People are leaving the game. I think everyone can agree to that. The question is "Why?" The answer is simple: It's the content, stupid. People are leaving because there is no end game worth waiting for. What end game DOES exist is geared specifically toward acertain playstyle and utterly alienates those who are not keen on playing that way.
The Dev team has worked hard, there's no denying that. Anyone who creates a game of this scope has worked hard. But their decisions about the Jedi have, frankly, sucked. The last good decision they made was killing the Holocron system. After that they apparently decided that Jedi were all about PvP and that's what my little rant here is all about, when you get down to it.
Diorchas
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:46 am
#62
MPHark,
Where did I say that being a Merchant for a year entitled me to a FS slot?
What I was saying is that I've spent a year developing his character. I've spent a year adding atmosphere to the game world. I've spent a year as an active, dedicated participant in SOE's game. As it stands now, though, I have absolutely no shot at being able to roleplay a Jedi Master, yet a dedicated PvPer does. How is that fair? I've spent just as much time in the game as my PvP counterparts, yet an entire avenue of advancement and roleplaying is denied to me.
Again, I'm not saying that powergamers should be denied their chance to play Jedi. All I'm saying is that there should be a way for roleplayers to attain Jedi Mastery as well, especially since it's the roleplayers who will actually make an attempt to actually play Jedi the way Star Wars canon defines them.
DraxTIO
Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:23 am
#63
Diorchas wrote:
Is there any possible way that I could've illustrated my point more succinctly and eloquently than this guy did? It's this attitude and the Dev's willingness to cater to it that absolutely ruined PC Jedi.
DraxTIO wrote:
Diorchas wrote:
First and foremost, I'll say that my main character is a straight crafter/merchant.
LOL, um, your main crafter/merchant is the one that becomes FS. If you want to become a Jedi, you're going to HAVE to make him a combatant. Otherwise, upon unlocking your second slot, you would have to redo ALL of the steps on your second, new character to make him FS as well.
Jedi in a video game = combat profession. Always has been, always will.
Just a hint for you, kid... Jedi existed before KotOR and all the other FPS games featuring Jedi. Jedi are not a combat profession, they are a moral calling. The SWG Devs have MADE Jedi in this game exactly what you say they are and that's the essence of my point.
LOL, kid? OK.
In GAMES, Jedi ARE a combat profession, as they should be. They've been fighting ever since the Atari 2600. The VASTmajority of people are not buying this game to negotate peace treaties,do charity work, or any other kind of touchy-feely stuff with their Jedi.
Plenty of other people in this thread have given you a number of solutions as to how you can RP your Jedi without having to ever do combat.
Xx_fLawLeSs_xX
Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:29 am
#64
I understand the orginal posters issue, tho he forgot about something, SOE do not want us all become a jedi, they want you to go on a road they describe, if you dont want to do it your not gonna be a jedi.
Its like other things in real life. You will never become a master of any martial arts by simply meditating, you need the physical training as well.
Diorchas
Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:32 am
#65
Drax,
And in order to do that my character will forever be relegated to Padawan. This sounds reasonable and fair to you? This is supposed to be a roleplaying game. Why don't roleplayers deserve the chance to play a Jedi Master and powergamers/PvPers do? The only reasonable answer to that question is "Because that's how the Devs created the system."
And THAT, my friend, is what I'm angry about. Not that you and others like you are taking advantage of the system... but that the system was created that way in the first place. I shouldn't HAVE to pretend my Padawan character is a Master. I should have the opportunity to actually make him one.