Jedi Archive
Thread: Suggestion for Pearl/Crystal Fix.
JediMasterCarlito wrote:
iskareot wrote:
Spare me, I have been in all of this messsince beta, Telling me this class has gotton easy is almost a joke--.. I know what is bad and good. I also know enough about Star Wars... I'm willing to bet you were not even born when the First Movie was released.. on top of that, I did not like the FRS or the way it was farmed, I did like the way however it weeded out alot of people afraid to play the class as it was intended (hence the overtness) So with that said...- You say be more "Jedi like", then I say to you go back and grind about a year or so to get your Jedi like feel and not the 3 weeks to 4 max it takes now...take the time to learn the prof and PLAN better vs hurry up and wait mode.
Eh? You obviously do not even bother to research people before you post about them do you? I've been a Jedi longer than you have, and have grinded Jedi characters in each "era" of Jedi. I think I know more than most on the profession that is for sure. Do not deny the fact that this profession has been easier to obtain since it's conception, or grind for that matter.
And how can you say with a straight face that you did not like the FRS, yet you liked overt nature of it? That was the FRS! There wasn't anything else to it.
Yes I know who you are and you know who I am..that serves us no gain,we are both Pre 9 Jedi so with that said there is not a major time difference so that is a moot point.I have had to grind in all crappy, risky times, crit fails just like you... Ok so we both know this. The FRS , yes I liked it for the Overt part not the way to achieve mods or advancement (Sorry I should have been more clear) I was not nor EVER fightclubbed, I had a wopping 769 FRS XP at the shutdown.I thought that part was a mess and caused issues bigtime so yes parts I liked some I did not.
(On a Note I have ground JEDI TOO in both "era", I can tell you that after getting out of my -10 mill hole and fixing a bad Respec gone bad type toon.. BACK to my full template. Granted only 13 mill but I can tell you in the whopping 10 days it took it was a joke... risk is gone we both know this nor need to even prove that one.
Now then, if you think that sabers were not made from a Pearl and or had Crystal in them , I'm sorry (sure the amount is somewhat a goofy thing) but you have to remember it's a game... with all that you said above you might as well just say one guy can make all the sabers and then hand you a uber one right in the game. I mean since its all Star Warsy... lets just do that, go to a NPC he hands you a Saber pre made doing 800 damage... Kinda like how Ben just handed Luke , Darths..I mean lets just get real Star Warsy..
I guess you really like the fact that you might have a much more powerful than the influx of Jedi on your server now? I know I don't. Everytime I fight some post CU Jedi I feel bad, as they cannot match my damage output whatsoever. Heck even quite a nice chunk of pre CU lightsabers don't match up, since quite a bit of those guys didn't get to farm Krayts for months on end since they were still grinding. I don't think that is fair quite honestly, and the CU was put in place to prevent that kind of thing.
Then where is the line drawn? Where or when do we make something obtainable to do somthing else, like a skill tree? I mean you brought up the term Star Warsy and I remember somthing like this came up in Beta on Bria and it was along the lines of "What makes you think somthing is "Star Warsy"? ... now think about that a second... My answer was that Its different for everyone... not the same for each person hence the title "Live in your own saga of Star Wars"...
Now then as far as Power and Jedi... Bah, please spare me you have been in this just as long and we have both seen ourselves made into mere shadows of ourselves, I will not dissagree that the power difference right now is all over the place, but I mean where do we draw the line? Do we nerf old so the new can have what we do or do we fix the new so that they can compete with the old?
This is nothing new in this game at all, in fact this is what we are "a giant beta" at times and you know this. Now then, if we are going to go on the ideal or fact that "Hey You got to loot Krayts and I didnt!", then I want to say, Hey You got to get pre CU Stuff and items that I want, everything from Pre CU Ubese shirts that do not decay to Pre CU pistols that we can't make anymore doing 1200 damage in crates with stupid low SAC.
I mean this is a round robin type issue. Sooner or later the line has to drawn and things need to be applied to do the best fix at the moment anymore. We are not at patch 7 or 9... this is freaking now 23... oddly we have reinvented the wheel so many times I dont know if it even has spokes to roll anymore at times.
Why the Hell other then some basic skills (Trials)do I even have to make one... some people just got them handed or thrown to them like a ball or a common weapon.
If You think we have not progressed then I'm sorry for that as well, we have come a long way that is for sure, 4 revamps and now this--- can't say its been all perfect but crap , dont feed me that jive, not this late in the game man... it won't float.
Eh? I never said we haven't progressed. Perhaps you mistook "forward thinking" in regards to this lightsaber problem as the profession not progressing. This lightsaber problem has always been a problem. They removed pearls from the crafting process and made them swappable in a container. Sorry that's not quite forward thinking. I know you've been around these boards for a while and if you remember correctly, our #1 issue back then was the use of pearls/crystals in our lightsabers and cost of getting them and maintaining them. My oh my, where we would be without ADKs. I wonder if your feelings on the matter would have changed then?
No my feelings were the same on that, I hated the crit fails and the decay rate are you kidding?? Who didn't, they cost 6 mill and up and we would lose them or grind them up (Remember making New gens to make them last longer lol)... Yeah I do too... None the less ADKs saved those and most of us.. now then I have a question? Do you think its fair for you to have your ADK?
How about the Jedi that has not been in the game that long 6 - 7 months or so? They want one too? Is it a reward? Why can't they just go get one from a NPC?(dont say they can just go buy one either because then the buying of Pearlswould come into plat as well.) I mean if this is about the "Deserves" then I say, in the words of William Money , "Deserves got nothing to do with it".. I mean I'm going to go left of center and just say, why do anything that takes time and effort to get pearls? You want to go left with this, well keep going .... Why do we need to even use resources to make them? --- My overall answer is this: ITS THE GAME DESIGN... this is what THIS GAME is part of, fixing it is one thing, changing somthing and it's over all purpose is another.
I still think we need to figure out some things while yes I think Pearl drops are very important if they can make a fix where we can retune a pearl that has been , then lets do it and flood the market and people with what we have. By all means it cant be worse then what it is now. As far as Im concearned that is "Forward Thinking"... sure its not the fix we need... but time is money and time is fleeting.
Sure we all want a easy way, as I can see- but at the same time there is somthing to be said for some good ole fasion reward for effort at the same time even in a game. You say "Jedi like" and I almost want to cringe.... I mean crap man if we are going to go down that road you better clear out about 50 threads... because this is no where near what it could be or should.... we have left THAT notion a LONG LONG time ago. (Hence the 50000 of us right now).... I mean that was funny.
Sorry, but you're thinking in a timeline this game is loosely based off of. And as far as the "reward" for Jedi, how does hunting for components required by your lightsaber for endless amounts of hours translate to a reward? I guess my ideas of rewards are much different than yours.
The best thing about that statement is YES, they are and that is what makes the game so great, but the good news is it looks like some DEVs thought the same way on alot of things, i.e. tissues, items, rare items, etc.. I don't need to go on but you see the point. I think that the finding and harvesting resources is part of what JEDI IS IN THIS GAME...!
If we are going to base this on "Fun" then I want back the 9 months on Dath and Endor grinding alone in the middle of nowhere in fear of BH's and death/skill loss/. To me I'm not sure that was fun or a reward but guess what? That was the design! While I dont dissagree with you on some things, I do on others.
You can think what you like about how some of this has played out.. but at this point I want things to just work... I dont even want NEW content, I just want skills to work and items to function as intended. If it would help the population by allowing a retune Im all for it... Making things harder then they are at this point is a insult and a Joke... if they want to do this then just bring back skill loss and call it a day.
I am in support of this proposal, although it may completely ruin the market because of the abundance of tuned pearls in existance.
AnknSkywlkr wrote:
I've already suggested what I think is the most fair way of fixing the whole pearl/crystal situation....
GET RID OF THEM.
Make crystal packs a normal, craftable component that uses experimentation and carries damage, speed, SAC, and Force Cost stat modifiers. Then the more skills you have in Lightsaber Techniques, the better each part of the lightsaber becomes -- crystal packs and final lightsaber. At Master Lightsaber, with the right resources and using the correct tools and foods, you would have the ability to craft the best lightsabers through skill points and time invested -- rather than through random luck or some prayer to the pearl drop and tuning gods.
That's the way to fix this mess.
qfe
I don’t like the suggested change. It doesn’t help those who didn’t stock pile older tunes. Most of us don’t have unlimited credits to buy crystals/pearls but we do have the means to loot them on our own.
If something like this were to happen I don’t see it helping the average Jedi. If we had the credits to buy what we needed we simply would right now and move on. The number of Prem/Flawless pearls that tuned badly isn’t high enough to cause a huge flood on the market. So those that do show up are still going to cost a good buck. If there is some sort of quality drop than all the tuned prems are going to be reduced to not much better than what’s available now. So what’s the point?
Honestly I feel the problem should be corrected rather than side stepped. I don’t for one second believe the devs are having a problem fixing this issue. For those that don’t know - this problem is a total loot system issue and not just a Jedi loot issue. In the old days back when we could loot something worth the time the system (like it is now) was based on CL. Back in the day CL250+ would mean you could loot a Prem Pearl/Crystal. A CL300 would mean you could loot a Flawless Pearl/Crystal. I’ve never seen a CL300 NPC before the CU, the highest I have ever seen would have been a Dark Jedi Master NPC who was around CL260. Due to the CL level they dropped Prem Crystals. A NS Elder was also a high CL mob and again due to the CL level dropped a Prem Crystal. The only CL300 mob that dropped Jedi loot before the CL that I knew of was the Ancient Krayt Dragon which again due to the CL being 300+ dropped a Flawless pearl.
Crystals and Pearls are not the only loot that is tied to the CL.SEA’s also go by what CL the NPC was. If the NPC was a low level 1 shot kill Jawa you can expect the CA/AA to be a +1. With mobs that dropped Prem Crystals you could expect very high numbers all the way up to the max of +25. Dark Jedi Masters since the start of the game always dropped very high level CA/AA’s. Those who have been around would remember back in the day when the Imp Prison mission wasn’t bugged and people were there with a long line of ATST’s for loot.
The problem with the loot system as it stands right now is that the core loot CL numbers have not been changed. Right now it still takes a CL250 mob to drop a Prem, and a CL300 to drop a Flawless. Most mobs in the game right now are CL70-96 which means they drop Good level loot.
Now with the CU the devs had no problem taking mobs like the NS elders and Krayts and adjusting the CL to bring them down within reason. A CL250 NS elder would one shot kill anyone without Avoid Incap, so nice job. So why didn’t they reduce the CL levels on loot as well? Sorry but with the new loot change for BH marks its very clear the devs have the power and ability to single out a set of mobs in the game and adjust the level of loot they drop. So it’s BS that they couldn’t take the Krayt spawn and adjust only the loot they drop to make it right.
Dark Jedi Master NPC’s used to drop Prem Crystals. They could be found on Dant just walking around having a smoke. They could also be found from the same mission above at the Imp Prison. Many people started to farm the place because it was the only place in the entire game that had a NPC on demand of that level who did drop loot. The devs walked in and dropped the CL of the DJK/DJM down to 96/113. Showing once again they can adjust the levels when they see fit. These NPC’s didn’t get any sort of nerf to the loot drops, they all drop the same items but with the CL cut in half the loots level did also. They now drop Good Crystals for DJK and Quality Crystals for DJM. The SEA’s are also from +6 to +16 vs. the steady stream of +20-25’s.
So why hasn’t this been fixed? If you like the devs and feel they wouldn’t screw anyone over then the only thing that comes to mind is that they have a huge loot revamp coming. So any major change to the loot system right now would make any major change coming soon look like another CU….It would make it very hard for them to increase the time or level of a mob to get loot you were getting easy last night.
What I would like to see is for our Correspondent to push for the issues we need delt with. So what can be done?
1) Fix the Dath Prison mission. This would include the Imp NPC outside, the bars around the prisoner and making all DJK/DJM NPC’s spawned by the mission drop no loot other than what is needed to finish the mission. The devs have already proved to all of us this sort of thing can be done, they did the exact same thing for the Krayt mission to get the weapon sch. You spawn a Krayt but is has no loot so no one farms the mission. This would fix all farming of DJK/DJM from this POI….Hell it would also end any chance of anyone going out that way again.
2) Adjust the CL of all loot. Bring the system back to what it was before the CU using today’s values. What this means is that a Anc Krayt Dragon – CL96 would drop a Flawless Pearl, A Giant Krayt Dragon CL 86 would drop a Prem Pearl, A Cannon Krayt CL 81 would drop a Quality Pearl, A Juv CL 79 would drop a Good Pearl.
3) The changes above would also apply to NPC’s so that DJK/DJM would drop Prem/Flawless Crystals. They would have to adjust the CL of the DJK to CL95 which we’ve already seen is not a big deal for them. This would also allow missions for NPC’s who drop crystals to drop better levels. CL 82 missions on Lok or Dant would start dropping Quality Crystals.
4) If the above is somehow too hard to do then here is another solution. Why not add a few Krayts and NPC’s that spawn randomly who are CL 250-300? I have seen plenty of mobs on Dath and Dant who are CL389. When I run into a Quenker who has a CL of 389 I simply go the other way. If I knew it had a chance to drop some loot I would call in the entire Dant Army and we would nuke it, loot it, then have some of it for dinner. We’ve seen how easy it was for the Devs to take DJM’s from Cl268 to CL113 so it’s not impossible.
The devs have pushed the story that anything that requires a lot of work will not get full attention. I do agree that to setup a whole new system, new icons, new windows….Its a lot of work. However to adjust a current – and working system isn’t too much to ask for. Again the only reason why the devs have not done this would have to be due to a much larger loot revamp coming down the pipe. If this is indeed the case why not just tell us so we have something to look forward to? The work involved to take the current system and adjust the numbers which works for everyone is a lot faster than to ask the devs to recode the entire crystal/pearl system so they are no longer bio linked and could be retuned.
Hell if for some reason the devs were really going to look at dropping the bio link why not drop the entire tune system and go back to pre 9 days when a looted crystal/pearl had stats we could see and skip the bio link so I could take my pearls from a Jedi who is not using them today and give me to a Padawan who could use them.
I’m tired of the lies, tired of our Correspondent not fighting for us. You took the job Baciacca, please step up and let us know when you plan to begin.
Baciacca wrote:
Suggestion for Pearl/Crystal Fix.
I recieved a PM today from a community member asking me to address his suggestion. His suggestion was this.
"With the current situation of pearl drops as they are, which is very unbalancing for the game, and the devs seems to have problems fixing it, would it not be an idea to suggest to them to remove the "jedi specific requirement" on already tuned pearls and crystals. As we all know older most older jedi have a stock of tuned pearls they dont use because they have slighty better ones in their saber ADK'ed. this will create a new market and allow older jedi to give to new jedi in their guild, or sell them if they wish."
With that said. I am also aware that this has been dicussed in the past.What I told him was maybe a re-tune option instead of just taking away names (BioLink) from current tunes. I know there are some of us older Jedi that have plenty of extras (in some cases bags of 50) but would it be fair to allow us to sell them for Millions of credits?
/Discuss
Edit:
I guess what I am wondering is would people be ok with this if proposed to the Devs? A re-tune option.
Message Edited by Baciacca on 08-16-2005 12:17 PM
this idea would kill the economy even more than it already is on all servers
Baciacca wrote:
Suggestion for Pearl/Crystal Fix.I recieved a PM today from a community member asking me to address his suggestion. His suggestion was this."With the current situation of pearl drops as they are, which is very unbalancing for the game, and the devs seems to have problems fixing it, would it not be an idea to suggest to them to remove the "jedi specific requirement" on already tuned pearls and crystals. As we all know older most older jedi have a stock of tuned pearls they dont use because they have slighty better ones in their saber ADK'ed. this will create a new market and allow older jedi to give to new jedi in their guild, or sell them if they wish."With that said. I am also aware that this has been dicussed in the past. What I told him was maybe a re-tune option instead of just taking away names (BioLink) from current tunes. I know there are some of us older Jedi that have plenty of extras (in some cases bags of 50) but would it be fair to allow us to sell them for Millions of credits?/DiscussEdit:I guess what I am wondering is would people be ok with this if proposed to the Devs? A re-tune option.Message Edited by Baciacca on 08-16-2005 12:17 PM
People would buy exactly 4 pearls and re-tune as long as they dont have 4 close to perfect pearls. You could limit this by attaching a list to each pearls consisting of all people that already tuned the pearl, which would be way too much database overhead to be anywhere near smart to do.
I think the tuning system as it stands currently is fine, the devs just need to bring the pearl qualities in line with the max level of krayts (and do the same for NS and crystals).
shafar wrote:
AnknSkywlkr wrote:
I've already suggested what I think is the most fair way of fixing the whole pearl/crystal situation....
GET RID OF THEM.
Make crystal packs a normal, craftable component that uses experimentation and carries damage, speed, SAC, and Force Cost stat modifiers. Then the more skills you have in Lightsaber Techniques, the better each part of the lightsaber becomes -- crystal packs and final lightsaber. At Master Lightsaber, with the right resources and using the correct tools and foods, you would have the ability to craft the best lightsabers through skill points and time invested -- rather than through random luck or some prayer to the pearl drop and tuning gods.
That's the way to fix this mess.
qfe
all ls would have the same stats under that system
and since many new jedi dont have much money they wont beable to afford to buy them anyway :s
AnknSkywlkr wrote:
I've already suggested what I think is the most fair way of fixing the whole pearl/crystal situation....
GET RID OF THEM.
Make crystal packs a normal, craftable component that uses experimentation and carries damage, speed, SAC, and Force Cost stat modifiers. Then the more skills you have in Lightsaber Techniques, the better each part of the lightsaber becomes -- crystal packs and final lightsaber. At Master Lightsaber, with the right resources and using the correct tools and foods, you would have the ability to craft the best lightsabers through skill points and time invested -- rather than through random luck or some prayer to the pearl drop and tuning gods.
That's the way to fix this mess.
QFE