Jedi Archive

Thread: Focus Thread Force Powers

SeraphDauthi
Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:51 pm
#53






Baciacca wrote:





nicmo wrote:

Powers should not be a replacement for Sabers, thus I don't believe it should ever be quite *AS* powerful as a saber assault. However, currently it's not viable in such a duel against pre-cu and pure post-CU sabers. My suggestion is to lower the force/action costs as sabers got, and either increasing the damage dealt or increase the damage rate (lower the timers).






I agree but Force Powers should be able to hold its own with the use of KD, Roots, Snare, and other effects that it should have. Force powers is gimped because of the lack of viable options and that is why everyone wants it to have more damage. The damage would not be needed if the profession could do more and didnt have certain "zip" bars.






What are you guys talking about?!?!?!?!? How many times has this been said that MASTER POWER WIELDERS is designed to be an ALTERNATIVE TO LIGHTSABERS with LIGHTSABERS DEALING DAMAGE FROM MELEE RANGE WHILE POWERS DEALS DAMAGE FROM RANGED. I got this wonderful idea and vision FROM THE DEVELOPERS STATEMENT OF WHAT EACH JEDI ROLE SHOULD BE.


STOP TRYING TO ALTER THE INTENDED ROLE OF POWERS per the Devlopers statement. So no, powers is not a freakin support class and needs to be the freakin nuker of jedi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Seraph'D/Azrael'D/Erinye'D/Promethios - Former Gorathian and BA Guildleader

(gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)


Headdead
Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:54 pm
#54

I think Powers need some more Skills, new Attacks etc.

First of all, i think Powers should have Debuffs, not only Force Break, maybe a Power which reduce the Attack Speed of an Enemy, another Power who will reduce the efficency of the next Heal to 50%?
A Power which acts like a stasis, but not such powerful as Stasis from Enchancer, maybe only 5-10 Seconds, to escape or so.

I dont see Powers just as a Damage Dealing Profession, i also think that it can be used to debuff etc.
Zilod
Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:58 pm
#55



biggest problem of power IMO is DPS


atm the profession is simply not viable as combat one.


i want also to point to the fact that power is not = ranged jedi as even LS have ranged attacks (and KD)


power is not a real debuffer, his only debuff (intimidation) is not really effective (too difficult to stack) and is not comparable to SAP or AB in efficency (LS better debuffer)


power have even less states than LS that have all the states of power and blind (that is a good defence state)


power is not a Crowd Control profession, it have just a laughtable snare (that have more cons than pros) the CC profession is enhancer that have snare, root and stasis.


power have less defence than LS that can block incoming fire.




this to try to show how power is not really an utility profession, LS imo have more utility than power and is way more effective both for damage and force use.




i see power more as a nuker/dmg dealer, expecially noticing similarity with rifleman/carb

i agree with the post that compared power to "dark mage"...


LS should be fast/consistant damage and a bit more defence

Power should be nuke/high burst damage and a bit more utility/debuff


also i think that to say FRS will fix it is bad thing...


1) we don't know how new FRS will impact on other jedi professions (maybe even sabre will do more damage than now and defence will block more damage)


2) not all power users are dark siders (joda used enhance/power against palpy for example) and power should be viable even for them whitout relying on huge FRS bonuses


3) not all jedis chose to rank and partecipate in GCW, so if they use powers why they should be screwed?



want also to point to the fact that in various movies (our first source) power is pictured as a pure damaging skill.... choke, force throw, force push, lighting.... they are not debuffs or utility.... they do damage and a lot of it


Many times we complain that this game doesn't reflect the movies.... let's propose changes to make it more similar instead to invent new roles and structures with our personal ideas in mind.



here some links to some old post i made....






(as said they are quite old and some things changed, but even now the general effectiveness is the same)

Message Edited by Zilod on 07-10-2005 01:16 AM

Niccolado
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:02 pm
#56

The only "common" attack with a little power is force Lightning. Its cool, and its very dark side. However, this special attack breaks when you take damage or as I also heard when you move. Just like Powerattack do for LS. If you could use that special attack in Power while moving and taking damage, plus a little extra damage, power would be better off, if not perfect.

Force Push and Force Throw would be great too!

Power is a great template with LOTS of potential! Power, should never be a support profession! The dark art is after all, all about attack and offense!




__A s p i r i n g S i t h L o r d______________________________
N I C C OL A D O S T A R W A L K E R


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W9
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Darkness hath meConsumeth.
Part of Darkness I hath Becometh


BloodravenII
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:15 pm
#57

Alright, you wanna know what's wrong with powers? Forget all these other complaints that are just completely beyond reason. You guys know who you are = )


This is what's wrong with powers:


We're a ranged combat class that CAN'T FIGHT as a ranged combat class! You put a zip bar on our primary offensive attack (force lightning) which completely eliminates any possiblity of fighting as a ranged profession. If you even MOVE you have to wait a minimum of a second or two before you can click the Force Lightning button otherwise you get an error and have to wait extra time. Then you have to wait for the 2 second zip bar to go through then you have to wait the 3 seconds for the animation to run through before you can fire. So you're looking at an effective 7-8 second time span inbetween lightnings if you expect to fight on the move.


GET RID OF THE DAMN ZIP BAR!


Force lightning doesn't need it's damage perked, though it could use some help vs. innate Jedi armor, it doesn't need any of this other hogwash that these people keep jabbering on about. You take out the zip bar and voila! Now we can fight as a ranged combat profession! YAY!


And fixing force breach so that it's a viable weapon in combat would be nice. As it stands it costs us more force then it's worth. It costs me more force to breach a guys buffs then it does for him to reinstate the buff! That's IF BREACH EVEN LANDS. How about giving it a timer so that they can't buff themselves again for "x" amount of time. Or have it so that it removes MULTIPLE BUFFS. Like the description makes you think it does.


I don't mind missing 1 out of 5 attacks. I don't mind that it takes 3 applications before our state attacks actually stick. I don't mind these things. What I DO mind is that I'm a ranged profession that is FORCED to fight toe to toe with the melee classes because some guy at SOE thought it would be funny to put a zip bar on my primary attack.


SOE Hampster 4 teh win!!1!

BobaFett111377
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:28 pm
#58

All the reasons I'm hearing for Powers to be weaker than Saber are pretty lame.


Myth #1 Powers should be weaker because its a ranged profession.


Truth #1 Sabers is alot better at ranged damage dealing than Powers. A halfway decent saber with do alot more damage with saberthrow than any Powers move and saberthrow doesnt suffer from a long windup timer. Saberthrow at MLS is a ranged KD that does alot of damage and has very little action/force cost and doesnt suffer from a LONG windup like Force KD does. Rifleman is a ranged profession, is it weak?


Myth #2 Powers is a support tree for Jedi.


Truth #2 You need to MASTER Powers to get full damage potential. In Sabers you can take 1 tree or Master it and still do more damage, faster, with less force/action cost and with less restirctions than a Master Powers Jedi.


Myth #3 My saber cost me millions of credits so it should be better.


Truth #3 Buy an ADK if you dont already have one, go NS or Krayt hunting. Personally, I had over 50 crystals before I even became a Jedi and I have looted many pearls/crystals since then. Tuning is so random, its not worth paying anything for pearls/crystals. Form a group and go hunting for them.


Myth #4 Powers is a crowd control profession.


Truth #4The only crowd control move Powers has is weaken that is a snare that only lasts a few seconds. Enhancer has 2 roots and a snare. But Powers does have alot of moves that ROOT themselves while using, making the only viable ranged moves Force Hit and Choke.


My template is Master Powers/3402 Enhancer/0440 LS/4000 Healer. I do alot more damagewith my crappy saber than I do with Lightning/Choke. I have 89 skill points invested in Powers and only 48 is sabers, yet I'm much more effective at using my LS than I am using Powers. I would like to see some sort of medallion to place pearls/crystals in or have the Powers damage based off the damage of the LS.


scoodoobydoo
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:33 pm
#59


i like this it gives better first strike capability which goes with ranged if u did this and got rid of zip bars except on maybe one high damage special *like power attack is* then well

anyone think this would make powers great ranged lightning shooters on the run ?


that range u claim powers have doesnt work with this self root of 6 to 8 seconds...


also if thats too much damage simple

have the damage based on the crystals in a fourth gen saber thats for show its certed by cl


as a mpowers u prolly have force speed 2 so if uhave nice crystals it wont be that bad


afaik lots of jedi have friends who help them find clear crystals and iduno pre cu pearl hunting was a big thing


once pearls are able to be hunted again... iduno.. anyways just thought id give my two cents



" jedi should be hard because being a jedi is your reward shouldnt be able to mess around and have fun"
"well this is a game for fun messing around is fun and if your that much of a
pr!ck irl you need to get laid"

"I am Scissors, Paper is fine, but Rock needs to be balanced"

Be careful... remember when Tiggs and Thunderheart acknowledged the pearl drop problem with premium / flawless? Look what came out of that one. *Can't fix it.. so you screw you guys
SeraphDauthi
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:39 pm
#60


double post


Message Edited by SeraphDauthi on 07-09-2005 06:42 PM



Seraph'D/Azrael'D/Erinye'D/Promethios - Former Gorathian and BA Guildleader

(gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)


Novock
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:43 pm
#61

1. Take the zip bar off improved force lightning and force lightning area. reduce the overall warm up and cool down timers. This alone would improve our offensive drastically.

2. Make atleast an advanced lightning single at master (zip bar would be appropriate here)

3. Give us access to force knowdown as well as advanced force knockdown.

4. Give us access to a single target imtimidate as well as the area

5. Give mindblast a startle effect and or a root effect

6. Replace the current animations done wbeing unarmed or with saber in hand to the animations done while holding a ranged weapon

7. Remove the zip bar from force strike

8. action and mind cost are to high make them somewhat comparable with sabers.





Novock
Cr|mson Kn|ghtsCo-Leader of <-CK->
Tim-bo
Cr|mson Kn|ghts- Architect/Droid Engineer/Merchant

yohmama
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:43 pm
#62

Bac, the seperation of our skills is tearing us apart!!! What we need to do is go back to the old jedi skill tree!! Then we must must make our skills more like it in KOTOR, Guardian, Counslar, and sentinal.
scoodoobydoo
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:45 pm
#63

heh yomama elite ? never man



" jedi should be hard because being a jedi is your reward shouldnt be able to mess around and have fun"
"well this is a game for fun messing around is fun and if your that much of a
pr!ck irl you need to get laid"

"I am Scissors, Paper is fine, but Rock needs to be balanced"

Be careful... remember when Tiggs and Thunderheart acknowledged the pearl drop problem with premium / flawless? Look what came out of that one. *Can't fix it.. so you screw you guys
scoodoobydoo
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:47 pm
#64


yohmama


forget the old one tree all skills thats not how swg is anymore and it shouldnt be


what makes u think all jedi dark and light have everypower ? they dont they all have theyre own specialty


if u dont know anything aboutthe EU of starwars just go your banished rofl

Message Edited by scoodoobydoo on 07-09-2005 04:47 PM



" jedi should be hard because being a jedi is your reward shouldnt be able to mess around and have fun"
"well this is a game for fun messing around is fun and if your that much of a
pr!ck irl you need to get laid"

"I am Scissors, Paper is fine, but Rock needs to be balanced"

Be careful... remember when Tiggs and Thunderheart acknowledged the pearl drop problem with premium / flawless? Look what came out of that one. *Can't fix it.. so you screw you guys
Zilod
Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:50 pm
#65



just a fast thing about power snare...


note that snare of weakness (and the above propose on stun) is bad because this is a 10 sec snare


you can apply a snare around every 30 secs so with it you have your hopponent snared for 10secs and immune at it for 20



the basicsanre enhancer get at 0002 (almest required) is a 15 secs snare (if i remember right or is not changed) so is more effective. (adv snare is 20 secs if i remember right)



having a short snare on a offensive attack (damage or debuff) will make just the opponent "immune" to the longer version of it. (bad thing both in groups and solo)


Message Edited by Zilod on 07-10-2005 01:52 AM

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