Jedi Archive
Thread: Focus Thread Force Powers
Baciacca wrote:
I agree but Force Powers should be able to hold its own with the use of KD, Roots, Snare, and other effects that it should have. Force powers is gimped because of the lack of viable options and that is why everyone wants it to have more damage. The damage would not be needed if the profession could do more and didnt have certain "zip" bars.
I agree completely. In my eyes, powers should be a *support* class, along with healing and enhancer, yet should still be viable to compete and rival that of sabers.
I suppose lowering the skillpoint cost of powers so that it can be coupled with sabersisn't an option, so that just means to either output the damage, or like you suggest with the negative buffs and state effects. Be like healer, where you don't increase your own damage output, you lower that of your opponents.
- Bounty hunters get nada except more jedi to hunt because jedi number begins to increase
- Jedi get permadeath removed (still they whine)
-Bounty Hunters get nothing apart from an explosion of Jedi to hunt.
- Jedi get an entire village of quests and content for them to grind to become Jedi in a connect the dots session that's really only a timesink (whereas before it was a timesink with a factor of unknowing WHEN you would get the slot) (Still they whine)
- Bounty Hunters get nothing except an even bigger explosion of jedi to hunt.
- Jedi get god-patched to high heaven, (new robes, new style sabers) making a master template jedi very hard to kill, unless you exploit or create unfair advantages against him. (still they whine)
- Bounty Hunters get nothing.
- CU hits, Jedi get godmode enhanced by level cap pvp mechanics, and an entire planet for themselves to grind on that Bounty Hunters cant track them on. jedi also respec to the jedi templates they all heard was the best for PVP. They gain the perfect place to grind AFK without half the fear of Bounty Hunters coming after them (STILL they whine)
- Bounty Hunters lose the ability to track jedi on kashyyyk, unless we learn the rryatt trail and want to endlessly search instances. (jedi laughably call US whiners for their easy gameplay being given an extra boost and our disgust at it) Jedi whiners make THEMSELVES so hated by other people that they cry and whine when more people respec to BH to hunt a population explosion/infestation of jedi. This note, isnt a lovepatch for Bhers, its just the first increase in BH population (now you know how WE feel about JEDI lol)
- Jedi get a half patch where force run is MINORLY reduced along with a MINOR reduction in force heal, which still manages to heal 3/4s their health. They cry like they've been turned into lvl 1 nunas. (whining overdrive)
- Bounty Hunters get nothing
- Jedi get patched so they no longer incur visability from group members, so they can sit down in the rryatt trails AFK grinding and never needing to see daylight OR a BH because the amount of vis they'll get from wookiees is negligable compared to PCs. and the only PCs down there will be their group members, and groups will be spread out far. They will be on the terminals 2/3rds less, and only have to ever face 1 bounty hunter, even if they are complete templates or worse, one of the five masters *shock horror* Padawans will die a bit less than they used to (the crap ones will still die and gain vis, so no amount of patching can help them im afraid. well, any patch that keeps this a game that is).
(STILL they will whine after this)
- Bounty Hunters lose grouping ability, lose their marks name (fair enough, but how about giving marks a number so we can group up for ones we find out to be complete templaters?), and in doing so lose the element of surprise to use /target by having to spend countless seconds to a minute tabbing until they find their mark etc. kashyyyk still not patched by the devs to make it fair for the BHers etc.
And the jedi call us whiners? Look at the evidence. its like....8 love to your 1 nerf, and for us, we get about 1 love to 7 nerfs to our jedi capping ability.
The Jedi after this patch (if it goes through as is) will bring about another 1/3rd or more to the amount of jedi ingame reaching their mastered templates maybe more. Already there are half the number of weapon and armorstores there used to be on my server because half the population is jedi and less and less people use normal weapons and armor that crafters create.
The next whine will bring about complete xp loss being removed from Jedi dying.
If this rate of population explosion carries on SNOWBALLING instead of slowing the number of jedi and their advancement, and the amount of people getting jedi to advance in the first place, then soon you jedi wont have much "norm-fodder" of which to godmode over.
You'll whine more when the only people to fight are other Jedi whom are as relative in skills and powers as you.
(thats when they whine some more for more Jedi master spots to be opened up.....)
this is a perfect post
100/100
MyT_Chicken wrote:
BDragon wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:Sabers cost money by choice....people choose to waste money of pearls and resources....that is not a reason to make them better.
And power users choose not to pick sabers and have good DPS...
Your comment can be countered with one just as ignorant.
Except pearls and crystals are avalible equally for every person in the game jedi or not. I don't force LS users to pay money for something they can get for free. Thats not my problem. Thats just LS users being freakin lazy plain and simple. Before I got my Jedi I stocked up on a ton of pearls and crystals....it costed me nothing. There is nothing saying you couldn't have done the same.
Who said i paid for my pearls?
The fact however remains that LS has a higher upkeep than powers to deal the damage needed to surpass powers. You are NOT beating a power Jedi for damage with a crappy LS, you have to invest time into looting pearls (of which the quality needed doesnt even drop anymore) and have the best resources. Powers has 'good' level damage for free. LS has NO free damage, its requires a weapon and requires the very top end of loot to reach 'excpetional' levels of damage. Any non-greedy power Jedi would understand that.
Powers can never equal LS for damage at the rank of Padawan and to hope so it to be foolish. And yes im a DJK and yes i dabbled in powers pre-CU, i never saw it as a replacemtn for LS. There should be no chance of using powers to outdamage a master saber until a DJK is ranked. Alot of power Jedi dont like hearing that, but just think, if you can deal damage = MLS now, then wouldnt sabers need damage mods also unless you want to be nerfed?
Should add at master....(darkside powers)
Dark Rage- Have this work as an advanced berserk, while draining your own life
Death Field/Drain Life- Drain lifefrom others to heal self (xx meter radius if field...)
maybe Fear or Horror- Cause target(s) to cower in fear for a set amount of time, can t move/attack for a set time (xx meter radius if horror...)
if they keep cms as dot givers then add Plague- "Causes opponent to suffer through deathly ill poison," and is slowed for its duration...
these would be nice to add to make powers even more encouraging, though the ones I posted are pretty much stictly darkside and since if added they should be fairly powerful they would have timers... and they would most likely be called "unfair"
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Not the point. People choose to pay money they could get for free, thats not my problem. Powers doesn't have Saber Block either...or anything for that matter to redirect incoming fire. Yet I can hold a LS if I choose to. Powers is suppose to be just as good as LS. It's not. And paying to much for care insurance...I mean pearls and crystals is not justification to make LS better the Powers.
Namen_Xenomi wrote:
just because something has a higher dps that does not mean it is better. For example, hypothetically speaking.
Say Dervish did 1200 dmg every 2 decs, thats 600dps
Lets say lightning did 2000 dmg every4 secs, thats 500dps.
Now im sure you can see a situation where hitting for 2000 right away, is better then taking 2 swings to do so.
you are missing the point. you are using the word better out of context.
DPS DOES NOT MEAN ITS BETTER.
As powers users we can use lightsabers as well. We can be MLS as well if we want. We have that option. And dont even try to use saber block from MLS as an argument, as saber block is a joke without valor.
I'm done debating with you. I usually dont flame in threads or say anything negative, but man, talking to you is like talking to a wall. You are a grade A moron.
MyT_Chicken wrote:
BDragon wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
BDragon wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:Sabers cost money by choice....people choose to waste money of pearls and resources....that is not a reason to make them better.
And power users choose not to pick sabers and have good DPS...
Your comment can be countered with one just as ignorant.
Except pearls and crystals are avalible equally for every person in the game jedi or not. I don't force LS users to pay money for something they can get for free. Thats not my problem. Thats just LS users being freakin lazy plain and simple. Before I got my Jedi I stocked up on a ton of pearls and crystals....it costed me nothing. There is nothing saying you couldn't have done the same.
Who said i paid for my pearls?
The fact however remains that LS has a higher upkeep than powers to deal the damage needed to surpass powers. You are NOT beating a power Jedi for damage with a crappy LS, you have to invest time into looting pearls (of which the quality needed doesnt even drop anymore) and have the best resources. Powers has 'good' level damage for free. LS has NO free damage, its requires a weapon and requires the very top end of loot to reach 'excpetional' levels of damage. Any non-greedy power Jedi would understand that.
Powers can never equal LS for damage at the rank of Padawan and to hope so it to be foolish. And yes im a DJK and yes i dabbled in powers pre-CU, i never saw it as a replacemtn for LS. There should be no chance of using powers to outdamage a master saber until a DJK is ranked. Alot of power Jedi dont like hearing that, but just think, if you can deal damage = MLS now, then wouldnt sabers need damage mods also unless you want to be nerfed?
No it doesn't thats what ADK are for...I suggest you use one if your burning through crystals and pearls.
Message Edited by Namen_Xenomi on 07-09-2005 06:39 PM
Namen_Xenomi wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Not the point. People choose to pay money they could get for free, thats not my problem. Powers doesn't have Saber Block either...or anything for that matter to redirect incoming fire. Yet I can hold a LS if I choose to. Powers is suppose to be just as good as LS. It's not. And paying to much for care insurance...I mean pearls and crystals is not justification to make LS better the Powers.
you are missing the point. you are using the word better out of context.
DPS DOES NOT MEAN ITS BETTER.
As powers users we can use lightsabers as well. We can be MLS as well if we want. We have that option. And dont even try to use saber block from MLS as an argument, as saber block is a joke without valor.
No I'm using Better because if I swing a glow stick around I can still move. Better because I can out damage any power user with a good LS. Better because if I use a LS I hit fast, don't have nearly as many zip bars as Powers Users. And Better because there are more Viable attack w/ LS.
Yes my choice to go Powers, but having AOE doesn't make powers "Equal" to LS. When a Powers user attacks they either have to be STOPPED or moving.....Neither are viable for any type of combat.
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Namen_Xenomi wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Not the point. People choose to pay money they could get for free, thats not my problem. Powers doesn't have Saber Block either...or anything for that matter to redirect incoming fire. Yet I can hold a LS if I choose to. Powers is suppose to be just as good as LS. It's not. And paying to much for care insurance...I mean pearls and crystals is not justification to make LS better the Powers.
you are missing the point. you are using the word better out of context.
DPS DOES NOT MEAN ITS BETTER.
As powers users we can use lightsabers as well. We can be MLS as well if we want. We have that option. And dont even try to use saber block from MLS as an argument, as saber block is a joke without valor.
No I'm using Better because if I swing a glow stick around I can still move. Better because I can out damage any power user with a good LS. Better because if I use a LS I hit fast, don't have nearly as many zip bars as Powers Users. And Better because there are more Viable attack w/ LS.
Yes my choice to go Powers, but having AOE doesn't make powers "Equal" to LS. When a Powers user attacks they either have to be STOPPED or moving.....Neither are viable for any type of combat.
*ahem*, last post before I'm done.
POWERS SHOULD NOT BE EQUAL TO LS, THEY ARE COMPLETLEY DIFFERENT SKILLS AND PLAYSTYLES THAT SHOULD BE TRATED DIFFERENTLY, USED DIFFERENTLY, AND GAUGED DIFFERENTLY.
that is all
Good to see a focus thread like this Bac.....Would DEFINITELY like to see another one with healer as well. These 2 disciplines ATM are pretty much the worst ones at master compared to the others. Ok, on to the powers rant. 
The main issue at hand IS NOT against non-jedi. It is NOT against PVE. Publish 19 helped out considerably in those areas. The main issue at hand is force defenses. Right now, a lone jedi with defender 0040 can mitigate 45% of the initial damage from choke ticks. That is WITHOUT aura activate. With aura activate, mitigation rises to 62%. Now, you may know or not, this is one of the most heavily dabbled lines in defender. Here's another kicker. Add in improved force shield...AGAIN, in one of the most heaviliy dabbled lines in enhancer. This bumps mitigation to 75%.
A master defender alone can mitigate around 51% damage, very....VERY close to the armor they wear. Lightsabers, with their VERYLOW min/max damage range, really only have armor to dealagainst in the defense department. Yet, they Still have the ability to break that number down 65%. They have the chance to break upwards of 60% protection all the way down to 21%. They would have a chance to break that 51% mitigation factor (which is very close to a master defenders armor protection) down to 18%.
Force defenses and force shield STACK TO A HIGHER DEFENSE than +70 innate armor and improved force armor does. 60% vs. 65%? Is that balance?
And on a second note, see about removing warm-ups for lightning and force strike, and reducing Lightning Area's warmup. This is just obviously pointless and really doesn't help a Ranged Damage dealer if they are force to stand there for 5 seconds.
If powers is to become part crowd control, then there HAS to be crowd controls along the lines of enhancer. Right now, enhancer has awesome crowd controls and a ton of great defense skills as well. Powers? Next to NO crowd controls as well as mediocre damage. The only thing that sets powers apart from any other discipline is cloak. And, I'm sure many....MANY force wielders would give up cloak ifpowers was a VIABLE alternative to lightsabers.
ALL force powers should bypass armor with as much mitigation that is present with force defenses and shield. There should also be a way for a power user to reduce force defenses. (maybe with weaken)We absolutely aren't asking for as much as 65% reduction from maximum defenses, but possibly along the lines of 50% from maximum. This would defintiely give some damage potential for a power user (greater than before) without nerfing other disciplines, it would be MUCH more viable then before (even though it won't be near the damage of a LS), and it would provide tactical situations to both combatants. Power users are great against non-jedi profs, and since they have no force defenses to begin with, they wouldn't be affected by a change like this.
Force wielder definitely needs a couple more DOT's added. A few people have mentioned a "Drain Life" ability, and I would think that would make the perfect DOT. Also the force cost for breach is ridiculous for the chance it gives. I would suggest (based on other peoples POV) that breach should have a base cost (maybe 45-50) and additional costs for each buff taken away (say 75-100). 300 fc for a skill that isn't guaranteed to work is just plain stupid.
Funny, took me 1 year 3 months to unlock...and I have 3 ADK's. Considering it takes nearly 6 months to just unlock all the quests in the village, your half way there.
Namen_Xenomi wrote:
I'm done debating with you. I usually dont flame in threads or say anything negative, but man, talking to you is like talking to a wall. You are a grade A moron.
Not every Jedi has an ADK, and the FACT that the item happens to exist does NOT excuse the fact that without a specialty item sabers decay, not to mention the fact that crystals/pearls CANNOT be repaired, unlike every other weapon in this game.
Message Edited by Namen_Xenomi on 07-09-2005 06:39 PM
I'm not asking for it to be Equal, I'm asking it to be as viable as.
Namen_Xenomi wrote:
*ahem*, last post before I'm done.
POWERS SHOULD NOT BE EQUAL TO LS, THEY ARE COMPLETLEY DIFFERENT SKILLS AND PLAYSTYLES THAT SHOULD BE TRATED DIFFERENTLY, USED DIFFERENTLY, AND GAUGED DIFFERENTLY.that is all