Jedi Archive
Thread: Windu Vs. Obi-Wan
Akuma-Paragon wrote:
Mace woulda won
check out this interesting facts on Mace:
you know how General Grevious in the movies was always coughing?:
Windu crushed Grievous' chest with a powerful Force push, leaving the general with the asthmatic cough that would plague him for the rest of his life."
Mace was exploiting. Obi FTW.
To clear up a few things:
During the Mace v Palpatine duel, Mace may have "overpowered" Palpatine and knocked him to the ground, but old Palpy still had PLENTY of fight left in him with all the Force Lightning going on after that. You cannot watch the movie and tell me his cries to Anakin were sincere, after noticing the shifty glances he kept giving his future pupil. And for those of you who think that Mace had won the battle by having Palpy on his back, remember Vader put Luke in a very similari situation which Luke then recovered from, despite Vaders declaration "you are beaten."
Secondly, on Yoda v. Palpatine. Reading the novelization will clear up what happened here. Yoda lost because the nature of the battle was not like he was used to fighting. By merely fighting the battle, he lost. It was more than simply Yoda v. Palpatine, it was the Jedi's understanding of the Force versus the Sith's, and as the Sith had spent millenia learning and expanding knowledge, the Jedi had grown stagnant. Thats what Yoda turns tail.
On Mace v. Obi. I'd say this one would go to Obi-Wan. Mace is a badass yes, and his style is deadly effective, but Obi-Wan is a master of the classical style, the defensive style. Obi-wan is like the immovable object, Mace wouldn't be able to touch him, and while he wouldn't beat Mace in a specatacular display, eventually Mace would be unable to continue his attack and Obi-Wan would find his opening.
Jacella wrote:Obi-Wan, hands down. Mace was a magnificent fighter, but prone to tapping the dark side and losing control. Obi, on the otherhand was faster, more adept with the Force, and more versitile than Mace.
Obi-Wan beat up a JK droid that would have destroyed Mace.
mace because of this reason obi-wan is great very smart fighter but same with mace and he could control is anger if he couldn't u think he would be on the console?? i think not. The reason i think mace lost the anakin was because mace didn't think he had to worry about him because he didn't no what he was capable of doing obi knew anakin after all he was his master so obi-wan had the upper hand vs anakin he knew his moves his power he knew his fighting style now the reason anakin didn't win is because yes he did fight along side obi-wan alot but he wasn't experienced as obi-wan so he really didn't study him as closely as obi-wan study him
Hands Down Mace Windu!!!
I'm an avid starwars fan and I have read many starwars novels, including the one that gives the most insight into Mace Windu and his lethality, it's the book called Shatterpoint. Mace Windu had a very unique ability to see the breaking point or the weakness in an opponent. That skill alone was what made him deadly, Vaapad added to that made him just flat out lethal.
Many people think Obi-Wan would simply outsmartObi Wan which is definitely not true, I think outlast him may be more appropriate. In fact Obi Wan has no clear advantage. Mace Windu in my opinion was seasoned far beyond Obi-Wan. Obi-wan Was a Form III practioner (Soresu). Form III was developed as a defensive form of lightsaber combat to avoid getting hit with blaster bolts. Form VII (Vaapad) was more of an Offensive form it was unpredictable and very rare and only two other jedi mastered it, Sora Bulq and Depa Billaba, but MACE designed it. Obi Wan couldnt have been familiar with this. Think about it, Dooku laid Obi wan out.
So let's take this into account.
Mace could see shatterpoints and probably would see Obi-Wans weaknesses and overpower him with Vaapad, which is a very rare style that Obi Wan has very little knowledge about because it wasnt really practiced amongst the JEDI. Mace probably has some knowledge of every form of Lightsaber combat which would also give him the advantage.
It seems to me that Obi-Wan had a difficult time fighting against Anakin. Even though in the end he won, we must remember Anakin was still less experienced and the only reason Obi Wan could keep up was because he had patience and knew anakins fighting style intimately, Anakin's downfall was that he was fighting strictly with emotions and let his anger do the fighting for him this was Anakins mistake.
When Anakin fought DOOKU he was more focused and didn't tap into his anger,he was able to kill Count Dooku where OBI Wan was immediately knocked out, not once but twice, once in AOTC and then in ROTS. Count Dooku also was a master of Form II (Makashi) Which is lightsaber to lightsaber combat, which most jedi couldnt defend against because during this time period they didn't fight other JEDI because the sith were thought to be extinct.
Now Mace has all of what DOOKU had plus Form VII (Vaapad) Which combines Maces style withForm II and Form V, Form V was the advanced form of Obi Wans style.All that with Maces ability to see weaknesses, how could Obi Wan possibly have a chance. Not only that, I think Mace would just clearly overpower Obi Wan on a physical level.
ALSO to elaborate on the quote by an above post.
Obi-Wan says "Why, i am but a master of Soresu, nothing compared to vaapad." To which Mace responds, " You are a master of a classic style where i have created a lethal style, when i fought Grievous he quickly adapted to my style, Master Kenobi i feel that you are the only one amongst us that can defeat grievous."
I think the above quotes explain alot. Mace's style tapped into the Darkside, Greivous was trained by Dooku a darkside practitioner. It was easy for Greivous to adapt to this style because this was something he probably was taught or at least had knowledge of but didn't practice because Dooku was his master. I think classic in a sense means older style. Im assuming at this time frame most jedi began to learn the more advanced forms of combat because of the increase of enemies the jedi had. I think Mace felt that because this was an older or more classic form, it would give Obi Wan the advantage due to the fact that Greivous probably learned the forms most common amongst jedi during that time.
Message Edited by krazyboy1973 on 09-28-2005 10:58 PM
Message Edited by krazyboy1973 on 09-28-2005 11:01 PM
felipz wrote:
wow two in the same thread saying Mace beat Palpatine ... don't you guys think it's more than a coincidence when Palpatine "throws" his lightsaber off the window Anakin is walking in ?
hehe, yeah. Even some of my best friends who are normally pretty smart believe that palpatine was NOT faking it, but it was entirely too obvious that he was.
Beeni wrote:
Everitt_Cage wrote:
Speaking of Yoda's prime, while he might not have been physicaly as strong as he once was, his power in the force only increased with time. When it comes to what makes a Jedi or a Sith strong, its their strength in the force, not their physical strength that matters the most,so, as far as power levels, didnt we see him in his prime?
thats kinda what i was thinking u dont get to b an 800 year old jedi without having some stong skills or maybe his race just lived that long
What was it he said to luke? Basically that this "crude matter" means nothing? hehe.
Windu was duped by Palpatine. It was rigged.
In a straight up fight though, no outside influance and nowhere to run/hide/ambush, mace would win.
So...Both! Depending on where/when it took place.
Message Edited by SpaceJawa on 09-28-2005 11:25 PM
WookieOgre wrote:
felipz wrote:
WookieOgre wrote:
Obi-Wan would have lost to Windu. Everything I've read and seen in the movie leads me the conclusion in a straight up fight no one could take him except maybe Yoda in his prime.
As for Windu vs the Emperor, I really have no clue if he intentionally set things up so he would look like he was about to be killed to trick Annie to come to the darkside. I find it interesting that Mace had 3-4 other Masters (council members if I remember correctly) and the Emperor sliced through them like butter. Why couldn't Windu take him then if he was really better than the Emperor? I mean if you can't take someone with 3-4 of your buddies, you should back out of the fight if it becomes 1 on 1.
Yoda IMO was fighting Palp pretty good. The difference was the superior tactics by using the surroundings to his advantage......Yoda's age also had to play a role, he was just to old to last a fight that long. Kind of like Jedi currently in this game, we can't last past these 30 min fights lol.
How old was Palpatine at that time ?
Actually do we really know? Wasn't it written in a book that Palp had clones of himself and was able to keep himself alive by transfering his mind to the clone?
Yep, in fact if I remember right, Palpatine went through a body every 4-5 years because the dark-side of the force broke them down extremely quick.