Jedi Archive

Thread: No more rebel vs imperial jedi.... light vs dark faction

Memnoch127
Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:10 pm
#53




Corvett wrote:



Sorry but this is about the GCW. Takeing me out of it takes the whole reason why I play this game. To those of you who think Jedi are all powerful has no clue about how to play this game. Any Master swordsman with a deceant powerhammer and CM or any Melee stacker can pwn a jedi at any given time. Learn how to play against all templates and quit whineing. I do not want my game to be left with just duels and guild wars if that is what you want then you do it. Don't force me into what you want.




Well what happens when all that is left in PvP is jedi? what happens when it is nothing but gank squads of jedi? its slowly heading that way, it will alienate everybody else.


As of right now when your a Knight you have zero to lose you can die 5000 times a day and come out chuckling about it.


being a knight yourself that runs around with a pack of Dark jedi you guys rarely ever lose unless its against a pack of combat stackers (going away in CU) or more jedi.


Sooner or later your friends will all be jedi, sooner or later the majority (not all as some dont wish to be jedi) will be jedi, we will then have more jedi PvPing then normal proiffessions and if someone joins the game they now have to grind out for close to a year to get a templete to even attempt to fight the current jedi.


That shouldnt be so, i know it isnt to bad on kettemoor now other than your group of Dark knights and the group of light knights that forms up to fight you guys every now and then but on other servers its way out of wack and all other proffessiosn other than combat medic and docter will go in the toilet.
Memnoch127
Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:17 pm
#54




pervel wrote:





You don't see a paradox in this? If you take Jedi out of the normal game, it doesn't matter how powerful they are. They will be fighting other Jedi who have the same powers. They could make Jedi 1000 times more powerful than normal chars or make them as weak as novice brawlers. It will not matter one bit since they will not be fighting normal professions. The only exception will be bounty hunters. But who really cares about bounty hunters other than bounty hunters themselves?


So basically you are asking to make Jedi an extremely hard profession to obtain and then reward them by taking them out of the normal game. It just doesn't make sense. I am actually not too worried about the devs doing this because even they can see that it will not make sense.




See your thinking in only black and white here, who says they just throw jedi into a corner and say there you go thats it.


They could think of 1000's of ideas for jedi to do and content for them and still have a functional PvP system through the FRS, im not saying lower the power of jedi or highten the power of jedi by anymeans im ONLY thinking of how this game will look 6 to 12 months from now.


Ok lets do the math here 6 months ago on live servers how many jedi did we have?? not many at all, now today we have packs of 10 15 20 jedi roaming around on a current bases, and you see a TON of padawans in robes id say atleast 5 padawans in any major city at any given time, could be up to 200 + padawans on each server.


Now give this 6 or more months more and now what do you have? atleast 100 more Jedi knights roaming around (assuming 100 or so padawans give up on the grind). Now how many Carbineer, pistoleers, smugglers do you normally see?? betcha its no where even close to that number of jedi there will be.


Takeing Jedi out o fthe GCW does not exclude you the player either, nope it does not since they gave you an ALT you can play with and do whatever you want with him. Put on some stormtrooper armor and go at it.


But yes this is starwars and we should be seeing armys of Imeprial Stormtroopers walking around not armys of Jedi knights


GadonThek
Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:16 am
#55
"I do not want to be taken out of the GCW...there is so little content in this game, why make it worse."

Its that self-centered attitude which stirs up such anti-Jedi feeling among the GCW crowd. "I dont want to be taken out of the GCW.....it doesnt matter if my profession is unbalanced and ruins it for everyone else, as long as I'm having fun...."

Like it or not, believe it or not, Jedi are unbalanced and ARE ruining PvP. These days there it's simply suicide to try a major PvP battle without bringing Jedi, if you dont, you get completely butchered by the enemy Jedi. If you assume a 20 vs 20 fight over a base, if the attackers have no Jedi and the defenders have one or two, then the attackers will lose 99% of the time. The same if the situation is reversed, and it gets worse in smaller engagements because it takes far, far longer for your group to down that single Jedi(if you even can down him), and all the while his "normal" friends are beating the snot out of you.

When I joined SWG I envisioned legions of ordered Stormtroopers fighting rag-tag Rebel forces, huge blaster-battles, hard-fought victories and crushing defeats, not a Jedi standing over dozens of smoking corpses, lightsaber in hand and a Combat Medic or two following in his wake. While Jedi are more powerful than normal professions, they will dominate PvP, and as this is an MMO, you CANT have one "class" dominate PvP exclusively, EVERYTHING has to have a counter, so as I see it the Jedi have two choices come the CURB:

1. Remain part of the GCW and lose most of their power, ie, they become a profession worthless to anyone bar Roleplayers because of the time taken to aquire one vs their effectiveness(which wouldnt be a bad thing IMO, if more Jedi were RPers then SWG would be a better place).

or

2. Remain as poweful as you are now, and be segregated into your own PvP community, where you cant ruin PvP for the rest of us anymore.
Corvett
Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:13 am
#56

Memnoch127 wrote:

Corvett wrote:



Sorry but this is about the GCW. Takeing me out of it takes the whole reason why I play this game. To those of you who think Jedi are all powerful has no clue about how to play this game. Any Master swordsman with a deceant powerhammer and CM or any Melee stacker can pwn a jedi at any given time. Learn how to play against all templates and quit whineing. I do not want my game to be left with just duels and guild wars if that is what you want then you do it. Don't force me into what you want.

Well what happens when all that is left in PvP is jedi? what happens when it is nothing but gank squads of jedi? its slowly heading that way, it will alienate everybody else.
As of right now when your a Knight you have zero to lose you can die 5000 times a day and come out chuckling about it.
being a knight yourself that runs around with a pack of Dark jedi you guys rarely ever lose unless its against a pack of combat stackers (going away in CU) or more jedi.
Sooner or later your friends will all be jedi, sooner or later the majority (not all as some dont wish to be jedi) will be jedi, we will then have more jedi PvPing then normal proiffessions and if someone joins the game they now have to grind out for close to a year to get a templete to even attempt to fight the current jedi.
That shouldnt be so, i know it isnt to bad on kettemoor now other than your group of Dark knights and the group of light knights that forms up to fight you guys every now and then but on other servers its way out of wack and all other proffessiosn other than combat medic and docter will go in the toilet.






I think you will find Jedi are being nerfed even more than they are now which is very unfortunate since they are suposed to be the Elite. So everyone should wait to complain till then. They said jedi are going to be only 1.5 times that of a normal person which to me is BS since I have to grind 568876826342764876234xp more than a normal profession. If you do the time and work there should be a reward for it.



"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering leads to whineing, whineing leads to crying on the forums, crying on the forums leads to the big nerf."
GadonThek
Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:33 am
#57
"I shouldnt be excluded from the GCW, thats not fair"

And its fair that, as a BH/Carbs and soon to be BH/Rifleman, Im effectively excluded from PvP by YOU? Right now, going ranged in PvP is suicide, and Im sorry, but thats just f**king stupid in a game about Star Wars.

All the CU hints about increasing the range we can shoot from and the new damage vs armour system are great, but unless something is done about Jedi then ranged will still be the gimp of the GCW.
Memnoch127
Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:44 am
#58




Corvett wrote:





I think you will find Jedi are being nerfed even more than they are now which is very unfortunate since they are suposed to be the Elite. So everyone should wait to complain till then. They said jedi are going to be only 1.5 times that of a normal person which to me is BS since I have to grind 568876826342764876234xp more than a normal profession. If you do the time and work there should be a reward for it.


Well look at it this way if they remove jedi from the GCW then there will be no need for a nerf whatsoever and can remain at there current power level

The_Shadow_Jedi
Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:49 am
#59

In the movies, there was a full scale war going on between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance, it was nice to see, but in the end that wasn't what really mattered.


What DID matter was the smaller war, the secret war only known to a few.


The war between the Light Side and Dark Side of the Force.


It should be the same in SWG.

SatansCircus
Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:50 am
#60
Imperial jedi have never made sense in this game. Rebel jedi are feasible since they would be trying to restore the republic in which case it would make sense that rebel jedi be included in the GCW. During the days of the republic, the jedi knights were the leaders and commanders of the armies. Dark jedi were used by the imperials to rout out the light jedi but there was never really a standing group of imperial dark jedi so their role in the GCW would be limited.


However I see no way this could ever be implemented in game.



*** sig changed by moderator - inappropriate ***
Corvett
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:09 pm
#61

GadonThek wrote:
"I shouldnt be excluded from the GCW, thats not fair"

And its fair that, as a BH/Carbs and soon to be BH/Rifleman, Im effectively excluded from PvP by YOU? Right now, going ranged in PvP is suicide, and Im sorry, but thats just f**king stupid in a game about Star Wars.

All the CU hints about increasing the range we can shoot from and the new damage vs armour system are great, but unless something is done about Jedi then ranged will still be the gimp of the GCW.




Lets see here.


Jedi can kill Ranged.

Melee stacker can kill Jedi.

Ranged can kill melee stacker.


Seems balanced to me. I have a MBH/ Master Pistoleer and I kill any melee stacker with out problem, yet a melee stacker can Kill my Rank 3 DJK (Which should never happen). Everyone needs to learn how to play the game and quit whineing. If ppl focused on how to play the game more than whineing pp, would do alot better in game.



"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering leads to whineing, whineing leads to crying on the forums, crying on the forums leads to the big nerf."
Memnoch127
Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:57 pm
#62
Melee stacker has already been announced its going away. So melee and Ranged will be more balanced with each other however they have mentioned nothing about jedi.


They say jedi are already balanced in the CU comes but that is simply impossible since they admitted to the fact they have not even touched the CU when they did the Jedi patches. How can you have an already balanced class when you havnt even started on the CU??? its like building a floor to a house and not even haveing the base or the top done for the house yet.


but as far as current jedi goes the problem is not 1 vs 1 its 10+ jedi roaming around in packs just completly destroying everyone. Thats the problem we have and have had in the past, everytime there is a super "uber" class people do this because its just human nature to want to be the best.


Remember back when CH was the main thing? remeber how everybody to CH and all we saw was Pet wars? or when CM was huge wasnt everybody and there mother a CM? or the original stacker that took 10 people of non stackers just to bring one person down? Remeber when Rifleman got the extreme over the top AOE straffe 2 bug where the damage modifer would bounce off already dead NPC and make it so it hit normal players for 5 or so times the damage of normal?? there is many more examples.


Sooner or later though unless there is changes or measures set into place we will have completly dominated Jedi server where something will need to change, if you balance Jedi jedi into every other class you just made a class that took 7 or so months to get and be just as good as a pikemen or swordsmen, obviously not worth the effort.


SO yes as stated a question to me i have thought about all possibilites you can Nerf jedi.

Nerfing = bad nobody wants to see them get nerfed down to very weak levels.


you could balance them out with every other proffessions which wouldnt be to bad but it is takeing power away from the jedi in a way, and youd hear MASSIVE crying from jedi saying why should i grind 7 months just to be on par with normal proffessions, in that case they would need to redo the entire jedi tree over again and so on and so forth. This option could work and im not saying it couldnt im just saying many jedi would hate it.


Or you could remove jedi from the normal PvP (still leave guild wars, dueling, and possibly battlefields and certain zones i dunno) Introduce more content for jedi to keep the happy and adjust the FRS for jedi so its easier to gain in it as the levels of knights appear onthe server's.


This last option would stop a nerf in power levels, prevent jedi gank squads of huge numbers roaming around destroying everybody, and make the non jedi who dont wish to deal with them not have to grind out defense stacker (even though defense stacker is going away in the cu) to stay alive in PvP.
Memnoch127
Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:00 pm
#63




Corvett wrote:




GadonThek wrote:
"I shouldnt be excluded from the GCW, thats not fair"

And its fair that, as a BH/Carbs and soon to be BH/Rifleman, Im effectively excluded from PvP by YOU? Right now, going ranged in PvP is suicide, and Im sorry, but thats just f**king stupid in a game about Star Wars.

All the CU hints about increasing the range we can shoot from and the new damage vs armour system are great, but unless something is done about Jedi then ranged will still be the gimp of the GCW.






Lets see here.


Jedi can kill Ranged.

Melee stacker can kill Jedi.

Ranged can kill melee stacker.


Seems balanced to me. I have a MBH/ Master Pistoleer and I kill any melee stacker with out problem, yet a melee stacker can Kill my Rank 3 DJK (Which should never happen). Everyone needs to learn how to play the game and quit whineing. If ppl focused on how to play the game more than whineing pp, would do alot better in game.



when is the last time you saw any ranged proffession other than a Rifleman take out a Defense stacker/melee??


Carbineer is a joke, pistoleer you rarely see anymore and BH needs work on there specials, the BH arent in to bad of a shape but do need help. On the melee side other than pikemen (who not have the most common insane DOT weapons) every one of them kicks everyone elses buts.



But again normal proffessions are all changeing in the CU along with DOT's and other things.

Message Edited by Memnoch127 on 03-09-2005 03:08 PM

Emperador
Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:58 pm
#64




Corvett wrote:




omadnay wrote:
Some people are over-reacting and seem to be forgetting about...
"Duel", Bounty Hunters, Guild Wars, and the fact that this idea leaves the GCW options open!

There are a lot of features in this game that just get too overlooked.

If a player isn't red on your radar, you think you can't fight them?

Duels can be one of the most fun forms of PvP, in my opinion.

There's plenty of oppurtunity to "own" people.

- Omadda Szool
Kauri

May the force be with you.





Sorry but this is about the GCW. Takeing me out of it takes the whole reason why I play this game. To those of you who think Jedi are all powerful has no clue about how to play this game. Any Master swordsman with a deceant powerhammer and CM or any Melee stacker can pwn a jedi at any given time. Learn how to play against all templates and quit whineing. I do not want my game to be left with just duels and guild wars if that is what you want then you do it. Don't force me into what you want.



Now I had to bold this in your response as this is not a mean for your arguement, come CURB there will be no stacker, so what do we all do now. just let the jedi win everytime.


Yes jedi is hard to obtain but that is your choice to do so not all our choice. personally I did the grind and have the dark jedi knight but at no time do I think just because I have a jedi I am supposed to be granted special rights over the greater good of the game. You only want the jedi for one thing and one thing only to OWN your opponent, well let me let you on to something the CURB is being delivered to us to prevent any one player from doing this solo.


Jedi can solo and can solo with great efficiency. As things stand now there are not single jedi running around there are LARGE packs of them and this is a game breaker. The DEVS most assuredly know this and we can assume a change will be brought upon us. Instead of being brought to complete uselessness how about we step back and let things change for the better. Yes let jedi fight in the GCW but bring HUGE and DEADLY responses to those choices. If it means an instant spawn of 12 nova troopers so be it, this way those jedi in the GCW have content but have to be very smart about their powers as a jedi.


PLEASE SPARE US THE CRYING ABOUT HOW HARD YOU WORK OR HOW LONG IT TOOK, IT WAS MEANT TO BE HARD AND I PERSONALLY THINK IT IS STILL WAY TO EASY TO OBTAIN.


Corvett
Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:49 am
#65

Emperador wrote:

Corvett wrote:

omadnay wrote:
Some people are over-reacting and seem to be forgetting about...
"Duel", Bounty Hunters, Guild Wars, and the fact that this idea leaves the GCW options open!

There are a lot of features in this game that just get too overlooked.

If a player isn't red on your radar, you think you can't fight them?

Duels can be one of the most fun forms of PvP, in my opinion.

There's plenty of oppurtunity to "own" people.

- Omadda Szool
Kauri

May the force be with you.



Sorry but this is about the GCW. Takeing me out of it takes the whole reason why I play this game. To those of you who think Jedi are all powerful has no clue about how to play this game. Any Master swordsman with a deceant powerhammer and CM or any Melee stacker can pwn a jedi at any given time. Learn how to play against all templates and quit whineing. I do not want my game to be left with just duels and guild wars if that is what you want then you do it. Don't force me into what you want.

Now I had to bold this in your response as this is not a mean for your arguement, come CURB there will be no stacker, so what do we all do now. just let the jedi win everytime.

Yes jedi is hard to obtain but that is your choice to do so not all our choice. personally I did the grind and have the dark jedi knight but at no time do I think just because I have a jedi I am supposed to be granted special rights over the greater good of the game. You only want the jedi for one thing and one thing only to OWN your opponent, well let me let you on to something the CURB is being delivered to us to prevent any one player from doing this solo.

Jedi can solo and can solo with great efficiency. As things stand now there are not single jedi running around there are LARGE packs of them and this is a game breaker. The DEVS most assuredly know this and we can assume a change will be brought upon us. Instead of being brought to complete uselessness how about we step back and let things change for the better. Yes let jedi fight in the GCW but bring HUGE and DEADLY responses to those choices. If it means an instant spawn of 12 nova troopers so be it, this way those jedi in the GCW have content but have to be very smart about their powers as a jedi.

PLEASE SPARE US THE CRYING ABOUT HOW HARD YOU WORK OR HOW LONG IT TOOK, IT WAS MEANT TO BE HARD AND I PERSONALLY THINK IT IS STILL WAY TO EASY TO OBTAIN.







You are missing the point here altogether. It was meant to be hard however there was also reward for that as well and that reward is I am SUPPOSED to be stronger than any other who can master their proffession in a couple of days. I chose to do this yes this is a true statement as well. Again however I chose to do this knowing I would be rewarded for my efforts and that reward is being stronger than you the normal proffession. SO SPARE US YOUR CRYING ABOUT HOW WE SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT OF THE GCW CAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY YOUR TOON. I CHOSE TO PLAY IT KNOWING IT IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT YET REWARDING AND THAT REWARD IS TO BE STRONGER THAN ANY OTHER PROFFESSION.



"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering leads to whineing, whineing leads to crying on the forums, crying on the forums leads to the big nerf."
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