Jedi Archive
Thread: No more rebel vs imperial jedi.... light vs dark faction
element123
Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:08 pm
#40
GadonThek wrote:
"I do not want to be taken out of the GCW...there is so little content in this game, why make it worse."
Its that self-centered attitude which stirs up such anti-Jedi feeling among the GCW crowd. "I dont want to be taken out of the GCW.....it doesnt matter if my profession is unbalanced and ruins it for everyone else, as long as I'm having fun...."
Like it or not, believe it or not, Jedi are unbalanced and ARE ruining PvP. These days there it's simply suicide to try a major PvP battle without bringing Jedi, if you dont, you get completely butchered by the enemy Jedi. If you assume a 20 vs 20 fight over a base, if the attackers have no Jedi and the defenders have one or two, then the attackers will lose 99% of the time. The same if the situation is reversed, and it gets worse in smaller engagements because it takes far, far longer for your group to down that single Jedi(if you even can down him), and all the while his "normal" friends are beating the snot out of you.
When I joined SWG I envisioned legions of ordered Stormtroopers fighting rag-tag Rebel forces, huge blaster-battles, hard-fought victories and crushing defeats, not a Jedi standing over dozens of smoking corpses, lightsaber in hand and a Combat Medic or two following in his wake. While Jedi are more powerful than normal professions, they will dominate PvP, and as this is an MMO, you CANT have one "class" dominate PvP exclusively, EVERYTHING has to have a counter, so as I see it the Jedi have two choices come the CURB:
1. Remain part of the GCW and lose most of their power, ie, they become a profession worthless to anyone bar Roleplayers because of the time taken to aquire one vs their effectiveness(which wouldnt be a bad thing IMO, if more Jedi were RPers then SWG would be a better place).
or
2. Remain as poweful as you are now, and be segregated into your own PvP community, where you cant ruin PvP for the rest of us anymore.
I understand your point, but you say my attitude is selfish because I want to be able to play along side my friends?? You are trying to exclude us from playing a major part of the game for your benefit...who exactly is being selfish. I do however see where you are coming from from, but why should anyone go without? The devs need to balance the game for so EVERYONE can play.
Message Edited by element123 on 03-08-2005 03:09 PM
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:22 pm
#41
GadonThek wrote:
"I do not want to be taken out of the GCW...there is so little content in this game, why make it worse."
Its that self-centered attitude which stirs up such anti-Jedi feeling among the GCW crowd. "I dont want to be taken out of the GCW.....it doesnt matter if my profession is unbalanced and ruins it for everyone else, as long as I'm having fun...."
Like it or not, believe it or not, Jedi are unbalanced and ARE ruining PvP. These days there it's simply suicide to try a major PvP battle without bringing Jedi, if you dont, you get completely butchered by the enemy Jedi. If you assume a 20 vs 20 fight over a base, if the attackers have no Jedi and the defenders have one or two, then the attackers will lose 99% of the time. The same if the situation is reversed, and it gets worse in smaller engagements because it takes far, far longer for your group to down that single Jedi(if you even can down him), and all the while his "normal" friends are beating the snot out of you.
When I joined SWG I envisioned legions of ordered Stormtroopers fighting rag-tag Rebel forces, huge blaster-battles, hard-fought victories and crushing defeats, not a Jedi standing over dozens of smoking corpses, lightsaber in hand and a Combat Medic or two following in his wake. While Jedi are more powerful than normal professions, they will dominate PvP, and as this is an MMO, you CANT have one "class" dominate PvP exclusively, EVERYTHING has to have a counter, so as I see it the Jedi have two choices come the CURB:
1. Remain part of the GCW and lose most of their power, ie, they become a profession worthless to anyone bar Roleplayers because of the time taken to aquire one vs their effectiveness(which wouldnt be a bad thing IMO, if more Jedi were RPers then SWG would be a better place).
or
2. Remain as poweful as you are now, and be segregated into your own PvP community, where you cant ruin PvP for the rest of us anymore.
And I understand what you're saying. However, I've been told, though I can't verify this personally, that Jedi are supposed to be an Alpha class. They're supposed to dominate in combat. That's part of why they made it a PITA to get.
It'd be kind of interesting to see how City of Heroes is going to deal with this. For those that don't know, they have a couple of Prestige "Classes" that you have to max your first character's level to get. They're quite powerful, from what I understand. The reason this is relevant is, they're planning on adding City of Villains, making the game PVP for the first time. I wonder how they'll deal with their Alpha classes.
Geekboyjr
Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:13 pm
#42
First off /cheer for Pervel. You are putting up quite a fight and I support you 100%. Now on to the rant. All this non-sense about removing us from the GCW, and we'll be nerfed for being so unbalanced is garbage. If you want to be a fencer, pistoleer, dancer, etc. and you go overt you know what you're getting yourself into. That's your fault, not ours if you happen to wander across our path. Secondly for those who whine about Jedi being to powerful, and that you have no chance. No one is forcing you to be weak. Get a real profession and maybe you'll have a chance. I could grind out a TKM/Master Swordsman/Master Brawler and throw what's left into fencer in 1-2 weeks tops. That temp alone will give a decent Jedi a problem. They aren't going to nerf Jedi, these are the people that have been with the game since the beginning. We've put our time in and paid our dues, and this is our reward. Right now it takes 4 months of solid grinding to get Jedi Int. last time I checked smuggler didn't take that long to get, and come to think of it neither did Carbineer. Oh for those of you that want boring drawn out quests for the Jedi you can F right off, I did my quests it was called, "The Village". Jedi aren't going anywhere, accept it. For those of you that have the short and curlies to stick around I'll see you on the battle field. I'll be the one standing over your corpse.
GadonThek
Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:16 pm
#43
Thats what I like to see omadnay, you take everyone's grievances and come up with an acceptable compromise. Your analysis is sound, and your solutions are well thought out, and they could just work. The problem is, they are labour-intensive, and we all know how much those devs hate doing work 
If the changes you suggested came into the game, I would love them, but if it comes down to a choice between segregating the Jedi totally or having things remain as they are....well, its pretty obvious from my previous post where I stand.
As for you, Mr "omg I can grinded for 4 month and so I shud be teh ub4r an if u dun like it u can go grinded up a melle stacker noobzor, lolz lolz lolz", please go and die in a ditch. Some of us enjoy playing a STAR WARS game, you know, one where people use blasters as opposed to stone knives and fists. I suggest you try World of Warcraft.
If the changes you suggested came into the game, I would love them, but if it comes down to a choice between segregating the Jedi totally or having things remain as they are....well, its pretty obvious from my previous post where I stand.
As for you, Mr "omg I can grinded for 4 month and so I shud be teh ub4r an if u dun like it u can go grinded up a melle stacker noobzor, lolz lolz lolz", please go and die in a ditch. Some of us enjoy playing a STAR WARS game, you know, one where people use blasters as opposed to stone knives and fists. I suggest you try World of Warcraft.
KaratonCha
Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:52 pm
#44
Amen, I completely agree, also I think they should place a crime faction of some sort for smugglars and BH's to join... just a thought.
Emperador wrote:
Please pull jedi from the rebel and imperial factions. Make a factional system that consists of light vs dark jedi. Why is just silly seeing all these imperial jedi for one as there were only two at the time and the like goes for rebel jedi there were only two and of that one died of old age.
This would go a long way to pushing jedi to the less seen and pulls this back closer to movie ideology/mythos. I have absolutely no problem dropping my imperial tags for a DARK jedi symbol by my name. This also fixes the problem of one needing a jedi or multiple jedi most times to defeat any PvP GCW base.
Sure light and dark jedi should be allowed to join in on the GCW but some system must be inplace that puts them at a HUGE disadvantage, say when NPCs from a base are attacked by a jedi, the imperial army or rebel faction send in some serious fire power to attach those player jedi. Yes a jedi can join in but their are HUGE risks and great presitge if you do.
Flame away! LOL. I know that many hate the idea of not being able to use their jedi as the end all be all of SWG.
Memnoch127
Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:10 pm
#45
Geekboyjr wrote:
First off /cheer for Pervel. You are putting up quite a fight and I support you 100%. Now on to the rant. All this non-sense about removing us from the GCW, and we'll be nerfed for being so unbalanced is garbage. If you want to be a fencer, pistoleer, dancer, etc. and you go overt you know what you're getting yourself into. That's your fault, not ours if you happen to wander across our path. Secondly for those who whine about Jedi being to powerful, and that you have no chance. No one is forcing you to be weak. Get a real profession and maybe you'll have a chance. I could grind out a TKM/Master Swordsman/Master Brawler and throw what's left into fencer in 1-2 weeks tops. That temp alone will give a decent Jedi a problem. They aren't going to nerf Jedi, these are the people that have been with the game since the beginning. We've put our time in and paid our dues, and this is our reward. Right now it takes 4 months of solid grinding to get Jedi Int. last time I checked smuggler didn't take that long to get, and come to think of it neither did Carbineer. Oh for those of you that want boring drawn out quests for the Jedi you can F right off, I did my quests it was called, "The Village". Jedi aren't going anywhere, accept it. For those of you that have the short and curlies to stick around I'll see you on the battle field. I'll be the one standing over your corpse.
ok where to start here, first of all is it really anybody else fault for wanting to perticpate in the GCW if there NOT melee??? geez your excludeing a ton of people here.
your right Combat stackers pwnz jedi (unless your defender but we all know the flavor of the months wants force run and not defender) 100% agree with however its gonna stop so then jedi will be beating melee down so now the agrument if you want to PvP go jedi or i will ownz youz i bet.
Is your reward Really to go in with packs of other jedi and killing other groups of players who dont wish to dedicate there entire templete to melee stacking??? god forbid if they want to be a smuggler/pistoleer. or a commando or rifleman or carbineer or Bounty Hunter. I guess those guys should just get the "F out" as you so put it.
No im sorry but i am just gonna have to disagree with you here if you want to Pwnz other people so badly why not fight other jedi??? that really is your reward you with yoru templete fighting against other people who you may or may not get a chance to kill you "might" win or you "might" win it really comes down to who is better with there jedi templete, food, lightsaber stats, managing there force bar.
Tell me you havnt spent the last few months of this game just wanting jedi so you could be "uber" in PvP.
I perosnally hope they do that because nobody should be "forced" to go jedi knight just to PvP, if they made the FRS fun, exciting, and worth while would it really matter that you now had to go out and PvP against other jedi instead of beating down the guy who doesnt want to stack or soon after the CU cant even stack anymore thus makeing them even weaker for you to kill? what does it prove?
Memnoch127
Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:18 pm
#46
GadonThek wrote:
"I do not want to be taken out of the GCW...there is so little content in this game, why make it worse."
Its that self-centered attitude which stirs up such anti-Jedi feeling among the GCW crowd. "I dont want to be taken out of the GCW.....it doesnt matter if my profession is unbalanced and ruins it for everyone else, as long as I'm having fun...."
Like it or not, believe it or not, Jedi are unbalanced and ARE ruining PvP. These days there it's simply suicide to try a major PvP battle without bringing Jedi, if you dont, you get completely butchered by the enemy Jedi. If you assume a 20 vs 20 fight over a base, if the attackers have no Jedi and the defenders have one or two, then the attackers will lose 99% of the time. The same if the situation is reversed, and it gets worse in smaller engagements because it takes far, far longer for your group to down that single Jedi(if you even can down him), and all the while his "normal" friends are beating the snot out of you.
When I joined SWG I envisioned legions of ordered Stormtroopers fighting rag-tag Rebel forces, huge blaster-battles, hard-fought victories and crushing defeats, not a Jedi standing over dozens of smoking corpses, lightsaber in hand and a Combat Medic or two following in his wake. While Jedi are more powerful than normal professions, they will dominate PvP, and as this is an MMO, you CANT have one "class" dominate PvP exclusively, EVERYTHING has to have a counter, so as I see it the Jedi have two choices come the CURB:
1. Remain part of the GCW and lose most of their power, ie, they become a profession worthless to anyone bar Roleplayers because of the time taken to aquire one vs their effectiveness(which wouldnt be a bad thing IMO, if more Jedi were RPers then SWG would be a better place).
or
2. Remain as poweful as you are now, and be segregated into your own PvP community, where you cant ruin PvP for the rest of us anymore.
you about summed it up right there i couldnt agree more in your points and as i highlighted this is the one where if jedi are gonna be changed it is for the best in this option. Simply as we all worked hard on our jedi and i personally do NOT want them nerfed to Creature handler level. So by all means take them out of the GCW or limit there role atleast so the game doesnt suffer and die from nobody can go overt without jedi power behind you.
certifiedandrew
Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:20 pm
#47
No. I haven't invested all this time so I can fight 10 people over and over.
Emperador wrote:
Please pull jedi from the rebel and imperial factions. Make a factional system that consists of light vs dark jedi. Why is just silly seeing all these imperial jedi for one as there were only two at the time and the like goes for rebel jedi there were only two and of that one died of old age.
This would go a long way to pushing jedi to the less seen and pulls this back closer to movie ideology/mythos. I have absolutely no problem dropping my imperial tags for a DARK jedi symbol by my name. This also fixes the problem of one needing a jedi or multiple jedi most times to defeat any PvP GCW base.
Sure light and dark jedi should be allowed to join in on the GCW but some system must be inplace that puts them at a HUGE disadvantage, say when NPCs from a base are attacked by a jedi, the imperial army or rebel faction send in some serious fire power to attach those player jedi. Yes a jedi can join in but their are HUGE risks and great presitge if you do.
Flame away! LOL. I know that many hate the idea of not being able to use their jedi as the end all be all of SWG.
Corvett
Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:27 pm
#48
Emperador wrote:Please pull jedi from the rebel and imperial factions. Make a factional system that consists of light vs dark jedi. Why is just silly seeing all these imperial jedi for one as there were only two at the time and the like goes for rebel jedi there were only two and of that one died of old age.This would go a long way to pushing jedi to the less seen and pulls this back closer to movie ideology/mythos. I have absolutely no problem dropping my imperial tags for a DARK jedi symbol by my name. This also fixes the problem of one needing a jedi or multiple jedi most times to defeat any PvP GCW base.Sure light and dark jedi should be allowed to join in on the GCW but some system must be inplace that puts them at a HUGE disadvantage, say when NPCs from a base are attacked by a jedi, the imperial army or rebel faction send in some serious fire power to attach those player jedi. Yes a jedi can join in but their are HUGE risks and great presitge if you do.Flame away! LOL. I know that many hate the idea of not being able to use their jedi as the end all be all of SWG.
I stongly disagree. I do NOT want to be taken out of the GCW sorry I worked to hard to be part of it. I ceartainly do NOT want to be penalized to be part of it either.
pervel
Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:29 pm
#49
Memnoch127 wrote:
GadonThek wrote:
"I do not want to be taken out of the GCW...there is so little content in this game, why make it worse."
Its that self-centered attitude which stirs up such anti-Jedi feeling among the GCW crowd. "I dont want to be taken out of the GCW.....it doesnt matter if my profession is unbalanced and ruins it for everyone else, as long as I'm having fun...."
Like it or not, believe it or not, Jedi are unbalanced and ARE ruining PvP. These days there it's simply suicide to try a major PvP battle without bringing Jedi, if you dont, you get completely butchered by the enemy Jedi. If you assume a 20 vs 20 fight over a base, if the attackers have no Jedi and the defenders have one or two, then the attackers will lose 99% of the time. The same if the situation is reversed, and it gets worse in smaller engagements because it takes far, far longer for your group to down that single Jedi(if you even can down him), and all the while his "normal" friends are beating the snot out of you.
When I joined SWG I envisioned legions of ordered Stormtroopers fighting rag-tag Rebel forces, huge blaster-battles, hard-fought victories and crushing defeats, not a Jedi standing over dozens of smoking corpses, lightsaber in hand and a Combat Medic or two following in his wake. While Jedi are more powerful than normal professions, they will dominate PvP, and as this is an MMO, you CANT have one "class" dominate PvP exclusively, EVERYTHING has to have a counter, so as I see it the Jedi have two choices come the CURB:
1. Remain part of the GCW and lose most of their power, ie, they become a profession worthless to anyone bar Roleplayers because of the time taken to aquire one vs their effectiveness(which wouldnt be a bad thing IMO, if more Jedi were RPers then SWG would be a better place).
or
2. Remain as poweful as you are now, and be segregated into your own PvP community, where you cant ruin PvP for the rest of us anymore.
you about summed it up right there i couldnt agree more in your points and as i highlighted this is the one where if jedi are gonna be changed it is for the best in this option. Simply as we all worked hard on our jedi and i personally do NOT want them nerfed to Creature handler level. So by all means take them out of the GCW or limit there role atleast so the game doesnt suffer and die from nobody can go overt without jedi power behind you.
You don't see a paradox in this? If you take Jedi out of the normal game, it doesn't matter how powerful they are. They will be fighting other Jedi who have the same powers. They could make Jedi 1000 times more powerful than normal chars or make them as weak as novice brawlers. It will not matter one bit since they will not be fighting normal professions. The only exception will be bounty hunters. But who really cares about bounty hunters other than bounty hunters themselves?
So basically you are asking to make Jedi an extremely hard profession to obtain and then reward them by taking them out of the normal game. It just doesn't make sense. I am actually not too worried about the devs doing this because even they can see that it will not make sense.
omadnay
Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:08 pm
#50
Some people are over-reacting and seem to be forgetting about...
"Duel", Bounty Hunters, Guild Wars, and the fact that this idea leaves the GCW options open!
There are a lot of features in this game that just get too overlooked.
If a player isn't red on your radar, you think you can't fight them?
Duels can be one of the most fun forms of PvP, in my opinion.
There's plenty of oppurtunity to "own" people.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
"Duel", Bounty Hunters, Guild Wars, and the fact that this idea leaves the GCW options open!
There are a lot of features in this game that just get too overlooked.
If a player isn't red on your radar, you think you can't fight them?
Duels can be one of the most fun forms of PvP, in my opinion.
There's plenty of oppurtunity to "own" people.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
Corvett
Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:46 pm
#51
omadnay wrote:
Some people are over-reacting and seem to be forgetting about...
"Duel", Bounty Hunters, Guild Wars, and the fact that this idea leaves the GCW options open!
There are a lot of features in this game that just get too overlooked.
If a player isn't red on your radar, you think you can't fight them?
Duels can be one of the most fun forms of PvP, in my opinion.
There's plenty of oppurtunity to "own" people.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
Sorry but this is about the GCW. Takeing me out of it takes the whole reason why I play this game. To those of you who think Jedi are all powerful has no clue about how to play this game. Any Master swordsman with a deceant powerhammer and CM or any Melee stacker can pwn a jedi at any given time. Learn how to play against all templates and quit whineing. I do not want my game to be left with just duels and guild wars if that is what you want then you do it. Don't force me into what you want.
JediForceSeeker
Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:53 pm
#52
IMO we should be in different Factions. Jedi should wage an underground (For the Mentally Challenged, away from any other people including the GCW) war against Light/Dark. This would make a much more interesting and fun Gameplay.
Just my Opinion.....