Jedi Archive

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MsNiL wrote:

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Gully311 wrote:

I don't think the Devs would even consider changing Vis at this point. It took a lot of gripin to get group vis taken off, and I think that's as far as they're going to go with it.

They're going to tell you the same thing. "You knew about vis when you decided to become Jedi and that's the way it is"

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It's not so much about the Jedi. It's aboutpeople screaming their lungs out about the "Jedi overpopulation problem".

This just might be one way to move in the right direction.

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funny thing, the first "to many jedi" post i ever saw was 2 days after patch 9 before anyone except pre 9 jedi were alowed in the village.

You knew you were going to have forced pvp when you started your grind to jedi. You shouldnt have an "option" to make it more challenging or not.

Thinking about it some more. I still like this idea, but one thing to make it all worthwhile, fulltemps would need something more than just XP loss or they wouldnt' care about getting hunted. Not sure what, but something.

We would need some type of check system so that PvE Jedi who sometimes go overt have to stay overt for a substantial lenghth of time so not to attack and then revert so you cannot be attacked back. Like a week or something longer.

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Jacella wrote:

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MsNiL wrote:

The story: I was away from the game for quite some time, long enough to completely drop from the terminal. When I started to go back to the game, I thought I should try to keep myself off for as long as I could. A friend was finishing up her Jedi, so I spent some time grinding with her. I started to group with her and experienced the first time the feeling of being able to grind together with friends without bothering about visibility.

A week passed, weekend came along, and I was still not on the terminal. As always, however, it was decided to do some general pve. We wanted entrance to the Blackscale Compound so me and my guild fought down to the bottom of Ryatt Trail. On the second level there's alot of crazed rodians that must be defeated. And becouse of doing that, I was back on the terminal, even if I up to this point was very careful about my visibility.

Back on the regular planets again, there was nothing more I could do but equipping my lightsaber and start running my enhancer macros, lightning drop from my heels, infusion flashing, a globe of light showing everybody I have forcearmor on, and the lightsaber safely in my hand. From being invisible for a whole week, I was again a fully visible lightshow for people to bother about. Becouse I had participated in game content, while being careful to not be seen by a single player and now I must protect myself becouse of that.

And this got me thinking of something I only vaguely mentioned before.

Only players bother about visibility, and people say "if you dont want to get hunted, dont be seen". Ofcourse, that option means not playing the game at all, and all Jedi know that, becouse practically every pve mission out there involves killing NPC's. And once you are on the terminal, you need to protect yourself, so again you are the very lightshow people hate.

What would happen if NPC's was disabled from the visibility system, is that visibility suddenly becomes an option. You are still able to participate in almost all of the game's content. But you can also do so freely, without a single player seeing you and bother about it. Unlike the players, no NPC care if you are a glowbat wielding lightshow or not.

What would happen is that alot of Jedi start to find themselves rewarded for staying out of sight from other players. This is, as far as I concern,one of the greatest ways to heavily reduce the sightings of Jedi out there, thereby seemingly reducing the Jedi population.

PvP in a player city =You are a player nuisance, Get hunted

Not be seen by players beyond your grouped friends = You are one less Jedi according to other players, Walk free

Message Edited by MsNiL on 09-28-2005 11:48 AM

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Although my views on Jedi an Visibility are well known, I see your point. The problem comes from jedi wanting to stay off the boards while grinding faction. In your suggestion, that would mean that anyone would be able to run amok killing stormies and rebel troopers at will without ever having to worry about visibility. Faction bases, both player and static, would become "grind central" and would be exploited horribly.

The two possible fixes for this would be:

1. Disable experience and visibility in Kashyyk.
2. Remove or reduce visibility gained from non-factional npc's, while doubling faction visibility.

Message Edited by Jacella on 09-28-2005 12:38 PM

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Well I think you have NPCs spawned at bases generate visibility as well as those in static cities (in fact all NPCs in a static city) and don't worry about Jedi grinding faction on missions out in the wilderness why would that be any more of an issue for them than it is for non jedi? They can always grind it in space anyway.

Jacella your ideas about visibilty make sense from but they don't reduce the physical visibilty of Jedi which is the real PR issue that SOE faces with this game for non Jedi players.

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DocSavag wrote:

Well I think you have NPCs spawned at bases generate visibility as well as those in static cities (in fact all NPCs in a static city) and don't worry about Jedi grinding faction on missions out in the wilderness why would that be any more of an issue for them than it is for non jedi? They can always grind it in space anyway.

Jacella your ideas about visibilty make sense from but they don't reduce the physical visibilty of Jedi which is the real PR issue that SOE faces with this game for non Jedi players.

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I am saying that, to complete several missions, a jedi needs to kill non-factional npc that currently acrue visibility. This should be removed. To remove vis from all npc's would start a new exploit as I mentioned, but by keeping visibility limited to factional npc's with a higher "cost", we can prevent this kind of exploitation. It is extremely frustrating to me to watch some rebel combattant running amok at the Emperor's Retreat and NOT be able to do anything about it. I miss the old tef system.

If you dont want BH to hunt you, STAY OFF THE TERMS.

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Marqi wrote:

If you dont want BH to hunt you, STAY OFF THE TERMS.

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Marqi wrote:

If you dont want BH to hunt you, STAY OFF THE TERMS.

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Go to your room while the adults are talking.

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Jacella wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:

Well I think you have NPCs spawned at bases generate visibility as well as those in static cities (in fact all NPCs in a static city) and don't worry about Jedi grinding faction on missions out in the wilderness why would that be any more of an issue for them than it is for non jedi? They can always grind it in space anyway.

Jacella your ideas about visibilty make sense from but they don't reduce the physical visibilty of Jedi which is the real PR issue that SOE faces with this game for non Jedi players.

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I am saying that, to complete several missions, a jedi needs to kill non-factional npc that currently acrue visibility. This should be removed. To remove vis from all npc's would start a new exploit as I mentioned, but by keeping visibility limited to factional npc's with a higher "cost", we can prevent this kind of exploitation. It is extremely frustrating to me to watch some rebel combattant running amok at the Emperor's Retreat and NOT be able to do anything about it. I miss the old tef system.

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Yea I know you do but you are a pvper who doesn't mind forcing that pvp on other players. Those other players don't want it forced on them and they pay the same fees you do and there are more of them.

So you are trying to prevent an exploit that doesn't exist. It isn't an exploit to kill PVE factional targets and not be open to pvp. That is how the game works now. It doesn't work for Jedi like that because Jedi is the last bastion of forced pvp in the game. This idea would make pvp a choice again. You want to avoid it? Stay hidden. But give a player a real option to "stay hidden" Staying hidden cannot mean dont do anything in the game. If it does then you are just saying "cancel"

I think a lot of people are confused about what MSNil is saying. He doesn't want less visibility because he doesn't want to be hunted. He wants it changed so that Jedi are less visible. As many of you know, there is a lot of complaints that there are to many Jedi for this timeline and such. This is fueled by no matter where you go, you see Jedi with Sabers in hand and with active powers. You see this because they are forced to do so.

What if that wasn't so?

Think about it, all the Jedi that I know as soon as they complete their template stop caring about visibility. This isn't because they have no fear of BH's, it's because they know that getting on the terminals is inevitable. It's going to happen. PVP, questing, or whatever.

A few simple changes could fix this.

1. Dead NPCs don't report you.


2. Player visibility is increased to counter point one.


3. Give Jedi a way to know their vis level and if they are on the terms.

You then allow people to quest, hunt or whatever, yet encourage them not to use their powers in public. Plus by giving a Jedi a way to tell his visibility, he may try and control it more. If I don't know if I am on the terms or not, I am going to keep my powers up to protect myself.

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DocSavag wrote:

Yea I know you do but you are a pvper who doesn't mind forcing that pvp on other players. Those other players don't want it forced on them and they pay the same fees you do and there are more of them.

So you are trying to prevent an exploit that doesn't exist. It isn't an exploit to kill PVE factional targets and not be open to pvp. That is how the game works now. It doesn't work for Jedi like that because Jedi is the last bastion of forced pvp in the game. This idea would make pvp a choice again. You want to avoid it? Stay hidden. But give a player a real option to "stay hidden" Staying hidden cannot mean dont do anything in the game. If it does then you are just saying "cancel"

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The same effect could be accomplished by making all your macro skills a one time application like force run. I too hate looking like a special effects machine to stay safe, but if my aura and infusion and whatever else i have running were one time special effects with continuous force costs, I'd be happy.