Jedi Archive

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Crizis wrote:

Everyone knows that Jedi templates are about choices - no great revelation there, right? Kind of stating the obvious?

The issue on the table is the lack of offensive balance of the choices, or the unbalanced (overly) weak state of Master Powers. The topic addressed in this thread is not to discuss choices (particularly without also addressing balanced choices,) but is instead a look at the lack of basic lethal nature of a lightsaber, that has offensive ramifications to all Jedi. By its nature, a lightsaber should be lethal regardless of whether you specialize in techniques, or specialize in mage powers (the powerful Jedi of the films had both, btw,) and because the game does not demonstrate that lethal nature of the lightsaber, and in fact to most Jedi trees, it is little more than a sword in terms of effectiveness. This is wrong. So, to balance the offensive nature inherent in ALL Jedi, because they ALL have sabers, its the first thing they dowhen approaching Initiate and Padawanis to make one. Any Jedi with a saber is LETHAL. Or should be. Wouldn't know it by SWG standards.

So, back to this thread, all Saber use needs to be more balanced in offensive nature, thereby increasing the overly weak offensive nature inherent today in all Jedi who specialize outside of the Light Saber technique tree. Again, by its nature, a lightsaber should be lethal regardless of whether you specialize in saber techniques, or specialize in mage powers. Both have specialties, but the saber by its very nature should not be just a sword in the hands of some Jedi. That is wrong.

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Agreed, this is wrong. A saber should not be a glowy club in terms of effectiveness. "Lethal" is a good description of what it should be. As put, every and any Jedi has a lethal weapon, and it should be balanced as such.

I look forward to getting home tonight and discovering if I understand the cloak publish. According to Blix, it was not going to change functionally for Jedi using cloak from what had pre-existed, but I'm not so sure after reading some of the discussion. If I am cloaked and an NPC or non-grouped Player walks next to me, it sounds like cloak will break. This is a huge change for Wielders, and a step backwards in balancing jedi templates as was the discussion here.

Comments? Devs?

Crickets?

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Crizis wrote:

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DoddsySnach wrote:
I dunno if its just me, but i dont have a single clue what your going on about

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LOL

Facts:

1. All Jedi make sabers


2. Sabers, by nature, kick a55... cutting through even metal

Therefore:

• All Jedi should be kicking a55 when holding a saber, not just those who take the LS Tree

Therefore, to recognize this, and to improve the offensive capability of all Jedi who are not LS Tree, and are comparatively and overly weak to the LS Tree's offensiveness:

• Move some of the specials from the LS Tree to the other trees, so that all Jedi are able to have some basic level of saber specials, with improved damage, and thus balancing out the offensive nature of all templates.




• The most powerful and effective saber specials are still the benefit of the LS Tree exclusively, or


• The LS Tree grants a bonus to damage that still exceeds the other Tree's equivalent specials

Bottom line, the other Jedi templates need a boost in their saber specials and correspondingly, the amount of damage they deliver, to make them more offensively viable.

Get it? I'm saying that if you want to improve the viability of the other templates, you don't necessarily have to look any farther than the saber in your hands to accomplish a balancing. The other templates' abilities/specials are good as is, if the uber-weak saber isenhanced.

Example:

• MH, MFW, MD - Add Dervish special


• MLS - Change Dervish to Advanced Dervish special

Among others...

Message Edited by Crizis on 07-14-2005 05:45 PM

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i read in one post that he would have to work for a saber as good as pre cu sabers....whoever this poster was is seriously in the wrong since its impossible to get almost 800dps on a post CU saber even with perfect pre cu pearls....if you can make one post a screen shot because post CU sabers are worthless crud especially with the pearl nerf

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Crizis wrote:

"Hey watch this, I'm going to take on these 4 Troopers" Whoosh, whoosh, choke, whoosh, flash, whoosh.

"You don't seem to be hurting them, are they supermen?"

"No, just regular troopers."

"Why aren't you hurting them?"

"I am, see how that one guy is down 20% on his health? and I hit the others with an area attack."

"5 hits with a saber from a Jedi against a Trooper and that's all you've done? And the other guys health is back to normal already. That's Star Wars?"

"Yeah, sux huh? I can actually do more damage with a pistol."

"Yeah, no thanks, looks very lame. What a joke."

Message Edited by Crizis on 07-15-200502:35 PM

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bimp

So according to this guys line of reasoning, someone who's 0-4-0-4 rifleman should be as powerful using a rifle as a master rifleman? Think about that for a minute crizis. The reason MLS is much better than having say 0-4-0-4 LS is that you get all the extra speed and accuracy with MLS plus the extra specials. Just as it is in EVERY OTHER PROFESSION. Master combat professions will provide more damage than dabblers, which is what you are in LS. A dabbler. Hey my jedi isn't a master defender but I sure would like to get all the benefits from it. And my saber does just fine damage wise thanks. I hit for more damage with it then any of my other characters do with their weapons. Do you understand all of this? Its no wonder alot people think those with jedi's are dumb when they read something like this. Its basic game mechanics. Basic.

Message Edited by GinazResser on 08-02-2005 09:11 PM

Message Edited by GinazResser on 08-02-2005 09:12 PM

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GinazResser wrote:
So according to this guys line of reasoning, someone who's 0-4-0-4 rifleman should be as powerful using a rifle as a master rifleman?

Message Edited by GinazResser on 08-02-2005 09:11 PM

Message Edited by GinazResser on 08-02-2005 09:12 PM

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Nobody has said that. What we are saying is, lightsabers are lethal by nature, so make them lethal. A glowyequivalent of a dull sword,that doesn't do as much damage as the rifle in my full-templated Jedi's hands, is lame, lame, lame. Fine to specialize and get some additional specials and perks, but bottom line, lightsabers should be deadly, and all Jedi have them. That shouldn't be so hard to understand, even for you?

Even though lightsabers are shown as the most lethal weapons in Star Wars, there has to be certain balance. We are in a multyplayer game after all, so the idea of making lightsabers a '1 hit kill' weapons its completely ridiculous.

YET, the fact that a jedi has a higher chance to deal a lot more damage with a 'looted' pistol than his lightsaber is completely stupid. It is just matter of time before most players realize Jedi is not what you see in the movies, or even other games. A fine example of this, is how a jedi needs to hit around 2 or 3 times an NPC that is WAY weaker than him, while a rifleman can just shoot once and make around 2k damage (Lvl 80 rifleman shoots a level 10 bantha, Lvl 80 Jedi hits a lvl 10 bantha and still takes more than 1 hit).

If you're not outdamaging a non-jedi over time, note, not per hit but over time, then your saber is not very good.

800min and 900 max sabers, (add the elemental with high end pearl and this is our weapon) easily outdamages a rifleman per hit in PvP (exception vs no defence templates) and should easily outdamage over time vs high end PvE, for example the defences on an elite mob mitigates teh damage range on that rifle to hell and back, what you mitigating a 800-900 damage weapon to? Defences = mitigation, resist = reduction, lightsabers only deal with resists as their damage range is too tight for viable mitigation, this makes the lightsaber the most powerful weapon in the game vs high defence targets by default.

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MetallicaJunkie wrote:
If you're not outdamaging a non-jedi over time, note, not per hit but over time, then your saber is not very good.

800min and 900 max sabers, (add the elemental with high end pearl and this is our weapon) easily outdamages a rifleman per hit in PvP (exception vs no defence templates) and should easily outdamage over time vs high end PvE, for example the defences on an elite mob mitigates teh damage range on that rifle to hell and back, what you mitigating a 800-900 damage weapon to? Defences = mitigation, resist = reduction, lightsabers only deal with resists as their damage range is too tight for viable mitigation, this makes the lightsaber the most powerful weapon in the game vs high defence targets by default.

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Saber? Not very good? How can that be? It'sa saber! Hence the title of this thread.

bamp