Jedi Archive

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GinazResser wrote:
So according to this guys line of reasoning, someone who's 0-4-0-4 rifleman should be as powerful using a rifle as a master rifleman? Think about that for a minute crizis. The reason MLS is much better than having say 0-4-0-4 LS is that you get all the extra speed and accuracy with MLS plus the extra specials. Just as it is in EVERY OTHER PROFESSION. Master combat professions will provide more damage than dabblers, which is what you are in LS. A dabbler. Hey my jedi isn't a master defender but I sure would like to get all the benefits from it. And my saber does just fine damage wise thanks. I hit for more damage with it then any of my other characters do with their weapons. Do you understand all of this? Its no wonder alot people think those with jedi's are dumb when they read something like this. Its basic game mechanics. Basic.

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I think what they're saying is there should be more parity among Jedi trees so that sabers have some basic effectiveness as a weapon that is more appropriate to its nature. I would agree. That doesn't mean that everything ramps up accordingly in the rest of the trees, I think it just means that there is some basic effectiveness to being a Jedi and having a saber:

So that instead of this:

Jedi Initiate = utterly weak

Jedi Sabers Master = Saber Bells & Whistles, Very Strong

Jedi Powers Master = Powers Bells and Whistles, Fairly Weak

We have something like this:

Jedi Initiate = weak

Jedi Sabers Master = Saber Bells & Whistles, Very Strong

Jedi Powers Master = Powers Bells and Whistles, Strong (at least)

by ramping up basic saber lethalness.

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TraceAntilles wrote:

I laugh when BH's complain about cloakers, and yet they are allowed to initiate an attack 2m away with paralyze and DOTs, like that is anymore realistic, BAHAHAHA!

That being said, I think the Dev's quite frankly want people to stop playing Jedi as often, keeping only those that are more serious about playing the profession. Cause even with my pre-CU prems I'm still an even match for those MBH/MCMs, I cant imagine how much harder it must be for those having to use the post-CU garbage.

If you want to and have the money, stick it out cause I see change on the horizon.

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Amen, brother. And why are BH hunting Jedi in the first place? Why aren't they chasing real bounties, as in criminals and smugglers? Like Boba and Han? Where did this lame a55 BH vs. Jedi ever come from and what wild-haired misfire ever dreamed up that this dueling between BH and Jedi would ever amount to PvP and GCW, instead of battles and war that it should be?

We're all grinding and grinding, and preparing for a game that doesn't yet exist. Some day, we can only hope fora day when they put the War in Star Wars, and give up this lame dueling "content," and forced content where one player is somebody else's content.

Balanced game play is why sabers are where they are.

What's the issue though, how about pistols/carbine/rifles: Carbines should be the highest dmg weapons in the game, NOT rifles. Rifles should have the greatest range ingame. Pistols should be the fastest ingame and not outdamage Carbines.

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tuffness55 wrote:
ya teh whole peral thing really sucks, thats why i went mp and put my saber away

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Crizis wrote:

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MetallicaJunkie wrote:
If you're not outdamaging a non-jedi over time, note, not per hit but over time, then your saber is not very good.

800min and 900 max sabers, (add the elemental with high end pearl and this is our weapon) easily outdamages a rifleman per hit in PvP (exception vs no defence templates) and should easily outdamage over time vs high end PvE, for example the defences on an elite mob mitigates teh damage range on that rifle to hell and back, what you mitigating a 800-900 damage weapon to? Defences = mitigation, resist = reduction, lightsabers only deal with resists as their damage range is too tight for viable mitigation, this makes the lightsaber the most powerful weapon in the game vs high defence targets by default.

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Saber? Not very good? How can that be? It'sa saber! Hence the title of this thread.

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Since day one of Jedi here, people try to use the "real world" example of how powerful a saber is as justification that it should be set above all other weapons in game. Well, back when they were kinetic, sabers did CRAZY damage, even against the high resist comp armor, and even though there were fewer of us around people HATED to see a jedi enter a fight. The fact that a saber can cut through everything has nothing to do with the state of the game today. They have split Jedi into several different disciplines, where you can opt to master two and half of one, or learn some of all but master none. It is up to you. If you want to output high damage with a saber, you have to master it (and dervish sucks btw). A Jedi who masters sabers then has to choose what else he wants...defense, powers, enhancement or healing. It does sort of stick to SW dogma, in that no Jedi was a master of all aspects.

Now if they really wanted to balance it out, they should go back to the old system, which gave Jedi some of everything as they progressed and each new level granted newer and more powerful moves and combine it with todays specialization. For example, when one makes Knight, allow them to choose to be a Guardian, Sentinel, or Arbiter, (or whatever-but divide Jedi into Classes at the Knight level) and make each of those specializations come with it's own pros and cons that will benefit them based on template choice (KOTOR style).

Saying you wanna kick butt with a saber while maintaing a MP template is just...weird. We know it sucks that sabers aren't cutting through people like we know they can cut through blast doors, but if you could go MP/Mdef/4040 healer and still kill everything with a saber, there would be no need for the saber discipline at all, right? If ya dont beleive it try finding a Master Healer since BF and wounds and fire etc sort of um, went away...

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Eddrow wrote:

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Read up a few posts to what Reddestiny said, he said it better than I. Not looking for kicking butt with a saber, looking for the minimum damage to be raised - so that it's ramped up for lower level Jedi, and non-Sabers tree Jedi, to be more effective in a way a saber should be.

Another way to look at it is that Sabers tree would also be affected for Jedi at lower or starting levels, but once they reached Master Sabers, the overall damage would be unchanged at that level. It's narrowing the range of damage potential between lower and higher level Jedi, and in the end, the non-Saber tree Masters will be closer to the Saber Masters, without all the bells and whistles (specials) of the Sabers trees, but at a basic level, able to dish out as much damage as a Sabers master by mixing their Powers bells and whistles with their basic saber damage.

Here's another way to look at it. Objectives:

1. Raise the bar on low level Jedi (all trees) - so that sabers are appropriately more effective than a wooden stick that they are today


2. Make it such that Master Powers is more comparable with Master Sabers (ie. viable as a template,)by:




1. All Jedi - Increase the base damage of sabers (beyond the wooden stick equivalence today,)


2. Saber Tree - Offsetmastery damage modifiers in damage accordingly so that by Master,sabers are not doing any more damage than they're doing today, but at the same time, the damage curve of a player grinding Sabers mastery will be higher along the progression, because they will have started out with higher damage as they approach the same endpoint.

Resulting in Master Powers + moderate lightsaber and no saber specials = Master Sabers + strong lightsaber and strong saber specials. The blended effectiveness of the M-powers Jedi and their non-specials sabers, are equivalent offensively to the Master Sabers. But the differentiation between the two is completely intact, because all the specials for the M-powers Jedi is non-saber oriented, while all the specials for Sabers Jedi are with the Saber.

Not having saber specials for Master Powers is a dramatic impact. For you Sabers Jedi who argue against the above for lack of consideration and perspective related to viability, I ask you to go out for a while and use your saber without using specials, and see how it is. It's completely generic, non-engaging, and lacking combat effectiveness. No Fun. Do you want everyone to go Master Sabers to be viable? How does that make your avatar stand out if everyone is just like you? Just another Jedi? I would think you'd want other Jedi lines to be viable.

For the Master Powers, the use of a saber is a matter of survival, particularly today, comparable to the Sabers Jedi, and while to the Master Powers Jedi the saber will still be plain jane, generic, unenjoyable, and a matter of survival, I'm not saying to sexy it up, I'm just saying help the non-Sabers Jedi get some equity in survivability and viability by ramping up the basic tool of every Jedi, the saber.

A simple approach to making the template viable.

Message Edited by Crizis on 09-13-2005 08:05 AM

Bump

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Crizis wrote:

MFW and MLS offense are nowhere near comparable as they exist today. There is no credible, effective area attack by MFW to anywhere compare with the MLS Dervish. It's like comparing a blowdart with a tank canon. This is likewise true for single attacks. There is a huge gap that needs addressing such that there is some reasonable, plausible offensive ability by non-LightSaber (LS) tree Jedi that makes them viable as an EFFECTIVE offensive template. Maybe not comparable to MLS, but viable.

Today, we are not viable offensively if not LS Tree.

Rather than tweak up the non-LS Tree's specials, and since LS are supposed to cut through flesh and metal like butter, the answer may be that since all Jedi make sabers, all can cut through things like butter. So that the balancing that needs to happen is to tweak up LS damage and special abilities by non-LS Tree Jedi, such that a saber does as saber is, and thus all templates get a lift in offense, and the LS Tree itself is more of an increased lift indamage and some specific tree-granted specials, but not all LS specials are limited to the LS tree.

Message Edited by Crizis on 07-15-2005 02:37 PM

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I dont necessarily agree with this post, powers doesnt really need more damage i dont think, but it DOES need to be reworked.

as far as im concerned powers should be the pistoleer of jedi. lots of states, lots of crowd control, some damage. make it a crowd control profession, give us root, snare, stun, dizzy, kd, stasis, and lose the zip bars.its kind of stupid that the jedi root and snare are in enhancer. enhancer should have speed, run, armor, drain, buffs, regen. that balances out powers to a large degree for what the dev's have made of it.

i know that will frost some enhancers, but please tell me, how do root, snare and stasis enhance yourself?