Jedi Archive
Thread: Hey I don't like PVP
EcadMistflier wrote:
Gully311 wrote:
EcadMistflier wrote:
Correct. The vast majority of Jedi are pvp'ers to the core. It is the whole reason to go to Jedi. There is no justifiable reason to either promote or expect players of SWG to not have a Jedi. It is the way the game is designed. Instead what should happen is Vis should be changed in such a way as to allow Jedi to actually hide in game if they choose towithout having to abandon any hope of participating in any of the games content.
MsNiL wrote:
Azino wrote:
Nah there needs to be some discouragement to stop everyone wanting to be a Jedi, and forced pvp discourages a lot of people. All Jedi know they will have to pvp - it's in the job description.
The direct opposite is true. Forced pvp and a pvp rewarding system is what encouraged most of the current Jedi to become one.
Disable pvp 100% from Jedi, and you will see them drop like flies.
Ok, I see the point you guys are trying to make. Why would Mokk cavemen on Dantooine call up the Empire and say 'Hey there's a Jedi out here!"
They wouldn't.
BUT on the other hand, 'abandoning hope of participating in any content' is a little extreme no? You just have to watch your back. Which is what Jedi are supposed to do.
Most content envolves dealing with or killing NPC's. As long as all npc's can give vis if you use the force then that content no longer allows you to hide. It is reasonable under the current game mechanics to ask that vis be given only by non group member player characters and not by npc's which by definition is content or content related. Giving rewards to Jedi for hiding and making hiding proactive will discourage overt displays of force in public except by those who want pvp desire the attention of the authorities and the subsequent punitive actions. As it stands now hiding, staying off the terminals, and playing the rest of the games content is nearly impossible.
You're right it is... such is the life of the Jedi in SWG. You can argue the point til your blue in the face, but ever since they gave 0 vis to group members I've been happy and have subsequently shut my mouth about it.
Gully311 wrote:
I don't know why anyone who doesn't like PvP becomes a Jedi.
-No Jedi never has a BH come for them.
-The FRS was all about PvP, even though we don't know what the new system is... I can't imagine it won't involve PvP at all.
Anyone who doesn't like PvP should stay out of the Jedi profession, cause it's not for them. We still need blaster-wielders in this game after all
I'm sorry but that's a load of garbage. I was in the FRS, by choice, just as there were many full template Padawans who didn't bother joining it because of the constant overt status (now called Special Forces). If you did not join the FRS, the only thing you had to deal with was a BH encounter every once and a while, which was more rare than the number of encounters nowadays. There are many more BH nowadays (and Jedi as well obviously) which is forcing more encounters. While I don't mind the encounters, there are many others who do not. Did they know what they were getting into? Probably, but let's look at these points and see if there's a real reason to keep the current system as it is:
- Pre-Publish 9 Jedi were very powerful at the high level, however there was actual Jedi population control! When a Jedi died, he risked either perma-death (former system)or a loss of a skill box (latter system). This was tough to deal with and as such you did not see Jedi grinding often, they were grinding far away from everyone. Especially considering using a Force power or igniting your Lightsaber resulted in a TEF to opposing factions.
- Post-Publish 9 Jedi only lose experience, however after a BH deathblow and when cloning (PvP or PvE). The population control is really starting to go out the window, as experience is easily obtained and once a Jedi is done with their template experience loss (meaning any death) is a non-issue. Jedi are not as powerful as they were Pre-9 at full template however also do not have to deal with TEF when using their abilities or weapon, nor have to worry about perma-death or losing an entire skill box.
- Post-CU Jedi now only lose experience to a BH deathblow. Population control is really not a factor anymore, as Jedi are do not have TEF when using their abilities, perma-death, skill box loss, and no longer lose experience when dying outside of a BH encounter. As a result, Jedi are also not as powerful as they were at any point before the CU. The Jedi population has also expanded immensely (not suprisingly), as this isa Star Wars game thus resulting in many wanting to be a Jedi, whether they're of the same power level or slightly above non-Jedi characters.
Now, with those points made above, you can see that the visibility system and BH Jedi missions are completely out of date. There is really no reason behind them anymore. They are not controlling anything. There is not a reward for Jedi to fight a BH in the current system. There is no reason for a Jedi to not be the main character of a player's account.
Face it, perma-death is not coming back (SIDE NOTE: I see many people wanting this back so they can be more powerful. Let me tell you something, go back and read out posts during November 2003-March 2004 regarding perma-death, you can see that people hated it. There are too many issues that cause "accidental" deaths in this game and environment to have such a system.), skill box loss is not coming back. At best we might see ability/weapon TEF in NPC cities hit the scene, but that is even unlikely. This profession is not going to get more powerful, if anything it will get less powerful than it is. Therefore, why keep a relic of the past such as BH Jedi missions?
JediMasterCarlito wrote:
Gully311 wrote:
I don't know why anyone who doesn't like PvP becomes a Jedi.
-No Jedi never has a BH come for them.
-The FRS was all about PvP, even though we don't know what the new system is... I can't imagine it won't involve PvP at all.
Anyone who doesn't like PvP should stay out of the Jedi profession, cause it's not for them. We still need blaster-wielders in this game after all
I'm sorry but that's a load of garbage. I was in the FRS, by choice, just as there were many full template Padawans who didn't bother joining it because of the constant overt status (now called Special Forces). If you did not join the FRS, the only thing you had to deal with was a BH encounter every once and a while, which was more rare than the number of encounters nowadays. There are many more BH nowadays (and Jedi as well obviously) which is forcing more encounters. While I don't mind the encounters, there are many others who do not. Did they know what they were getting into? Probably, but let's look at these points and see if there's a real reason to keep the current system as it is:
- Pre-Publish 9 Jedi were very powerful at the high level, however there was actual Jedi population control! When a Jedi died, he risked either perma-death (former system)or a loss of a skill box (latter system). This was tough to deal with and as such you did not see Jedi grinding often, they were grinding far away from everyone. Especially considering using a Force power or igniting your Lightsaber resulted in a TEF to opposing factions.
- Post-Publish 9 Jedi only lose experience, however after a BH deathblow and when cloning (PvP or PvE). The population control is really starting to go out the window, as experience is easily obtained and once a Jedi is done with their template experience loss (meaning any death) is a non-issue. Jedi are not as powerful as they were Pre-9 at full template however also do not have to deal with TEF when using their abilities or weapon, nor have to worry about perma-death or losing an entire skill box.
- Post-CU Jedi now only lose experience to a BH deathblow. Population control is really not a factor anymore, as Jedi are do not have TEF when using their abilities, perma-death, skill box loss, and no longer lose experience when dying outside of a BH encounter. As a result, Jedi are also not as powerful as they were at any point before the CU. The Jedi population has also expanded immensely (not suprisingly), as this isa Star Wars game thus resulting in many wanting to be a Jedi, whether they're of the same power level or slightly above non-Jedi characters.
Now, with those points made above, you can see that the visibility system and BH Jedi missions are completely out of date. There is really no reason behind them anymore. They are not controlling anything. There is not a reward for Jedi to fight a BH in the current system. There is no reason for a Jedi to not be the main character of a player's account.
Face it, perma-death is not coming back (SIDE NOTE: I see many people wanting this back so they can be more powerful. Let me tell you something, go back and read out posts during November 2003-March 2004 regarding perma-death, you can see that people hated it. There are too many issues that cause "accidental" deaths in this game and environment to have such a system.), skill box loss is not coming back. At best we might see ability/weapon TEF in NPC cities hit the scene, but that is even unlikely. This profession is not going to get more powerful, if anything it will get less powerful than it is. Therefore, why keep a relic of the past such as BH Jedi missions?
So you're saying because Bounty Hunters no longer control the population of Jedi we should just scrap the whole system of Jedi being illegal and player Bounty Hunters being contracted to hunt them?
That's a load of garbage.
Just an opinion from aBounty Hunter without a Jedi alt, for what it's worth.
If you have been in this game long enough to grind Jedi you know well enough and ahead of time that you are entering into the PVP world in one form or another. That is your choice to make or not make.
On the other hand the system as it stands is a little unfair and unrealistic. The Jedi that are flashing their glow sticks around in front of every starport are just asking for it,are enemies of the Empire and should be hunted!I wish that I had a way of only pulling the names of those Jedi, but I can not.
Obtainingvisibility from NPCs is absolutely ridiculous!ThisI have to agree with you guys on. Basically the only content for you guys is to hunt creatures in the wild and in a group.I would get bored with that myself in no time. On top of that you cannot do one singlequest without interacting with and most of the timebeing required to kill NPCs.The visibility system is what needs to be fixed. That way the Jedi that don't want to be hunted couldhave at least a chanceof concealing their illegal practices and still have somegame content.And for you starport show offs,keep it up! I need the credits.
I think my complaints concerning Jedi conduct are valid, not whines. The majority of the players playing Jedi visibly these days seem to behave in a manner unsuited to the concept of "Jedi". They are there solely to PvP and trashtalk each other, and if the professional requirement for that was Dogcatcher and Dogcathers were 1.5x more powerful than any other profession, they would all be that instead.
If I choose to actually become a Jedi when I finish the FS grind, I will be trying to roleplay one. I will be trying to act in character most of the time I hope. I expect it to be ugly and slow progress due to Bounty Hunters etc. I know I will be engaging in PvP, thats not news to me - I just don't enjoy it in this game all that much - and I don't enjoy associating with most of the people I have met who do enjoy it.
As for the /ignore list, trust me I have a healthy sized one, it only takes seconds to encounter another candidate for inclusion. The only problem being it will eventually be filled I expect, is there a cap on the size of your ignore list?
I think that given the massive FS/Jedi population - the only people I have met who are not working on FS or do not have a Jedi already are newbs who want to know how to start - its obvious that the current mechanism for limiting the Jedi population is not working. Its generating income for SOE which is probably all they care about, but its hardly slowing the progress of anyone towards Jedi status, and not impeding those who are Jedi already from what I can see. What would resolve a lot of people's complaints concerning Jedi overpopulation woudl simply be some mechanisms to ensure you don't *see* them. Some way that forces them to behave as if they are hunted and must conceal their identity. If they want to duel then let them go out into the wilds and do so there. When the majority of players only see other Jedi when they are playing *their* Jedi I think that a lot of the complaints will go away.
Personally I hope they bring in a Jedi mission terminal that pits Light Jedi versus Dark Jedi for some sort of prestige points, perhaps ranking in the FRS (which I do not begin to understand so forgive my ignorance), so that they are off hunting each other. That would go a long way towards eliminating the boredom of many juvenile Jedi players who spend their time dueling in public places as a result.
Esta wrote:
At all.
Can you guys give me and people like me a no-pvp switch, one time choice, and send cool NPC's after me instead. I'd have more fun then. PVP people can go deal with the trash talking idiots, and I'll have fun in my own little world...
Ok I'll stop dreaming.
Sorry, but pvp was part of jedi and you knew it. If it's not your cup of tea, then grind a normal toon.
Forced PVP and insane grinding are the price you have to pay to do something you enjoy in the game... so you try to get the grinding over with and find ways to minimize the inconvenience of pesky BH's out to prove their manhood and make themselves feel important by attacking other players.
So just grind it to full template ASAP, then have fun making BH's waste as much time as possible on missions they aren't going to win. Not because you'll kill them (that would be giving them content) but because you'll make it impossible for them to fight you - by any means necessary. And every minute they waste on you or any other full template means the low-level paddies have one less BH to worry about!
In all honesty, a lot of ill will between players would just disappear if SOE did the smart thing and got rid of forced PVP. I would be delighted to have a PVE-only Jedi, never duel anybody or stuff like that -- which I will gladly leave to the 15-year old boys that need to prove their manhood.
Okay. I grinded my first 3 trees of fs as a tka. Unarmed and combat all the way. I did the next tree with grenades and unarmed. Did the last tree with bh. pistols, rifles and carbines. (CU nerfed nades and the doc who made my money for me).
Then I became a jedi. Started grinding in regular groups. Back when groups still gave vis. Got attacked. Lost the first 3 or 4. Then I said "hey! What do I have to do to stop losing" learn to pvp. Didn't say "I wish I didn't have to pvp". Because before I became a padawan, I rarely fought another player. But losing a couple 100k of jedi xp was a hard hit. So first, I had to learn how to pvp with my advanced laser rifle and some of the jedi skills I had. ThenI hit a "dark" patch where I didn't have enough elite skills to pwn with my rifle and not enough to pwn with my saber. So if one came, I fought or I ran. Then, as I got closer to full temp, I started winning. Regularly. Although I have not had 100's of battles since that point, I haven't lost not one fight either.
So as a person who was completely stressed out about being forced to pvp (not really a force cause it is what it is), I improvised, adapted and overcame. This was the choice I made the first time I said "I want to be a jedi".
Besides, if we didn't have to worry about bh's and tef's, we'd walk around like we owned the place. lol
Dtow wrote:Just an opinion from aBounty Hunter without a Jedi alt, for what it's worth.
If you have been in this game long enough to grind Jedi you know well enough and ahead of time that you are entering into the PVP world in one form or another. That is your choice to make or not make.
On the other hand the system as it stands is a little unfair and unrealistic. The Jedi that are flashing their glow sticks around in front of every starport are just asking for it,are enemies of the Empire and should be hunted!I wish that I had a way of only pulling the names of those Jedi, but I can not.
Obtainingvisibility from NPCs is absolutely ridiculous!ThisI have to agree with you guys on. Basically the only content for you guys is to hunt creatures in the wild and in a group.I would get bored with that myself in no time. On top of that you cannot do one singlequest without interacting with and most of the timebeing required to kill NPCs.The visibility system is what needs to be fixed. That way the Jedi that don't want to be hunted couldhave at least a chanceof concealing their illegal practices and still have somegame content.And for you starport show offs,keep it up! I need the credits.
hear hear. I would be happy with that.
Of course it would...then everyone would want a jedi, have one in a month and they'd have to change the name of the game to Jedi Online, since nobody would play anything else but their jedi.
pussycat wrote:
Only folks who are not SW fan would understand why one would be willing to pay almost any price to play Jedi in SWG, even if you positively couldn't care less for PVP.
Forced PVP and insane grinding are the price you have to pay to do something you enjoy in the game... so you try to get the grinding over with and find ways to minimize the inconvenience of pesky BH's out to prove their manhood and make themselves feel important by attacking other players.
So just grind it to full template ASAP, then have fun making BH's waste as much time as possible on missions they aren't going to win. Not because you'll kill them (that would be giving them content) but because you'll make it impossible for them to fight you - by any means necessary. And every minute they waste on you or any other full template means the low-level paddies have one less BH to worry about!
In all honesty, a lot of ill will between players would just disappear if SOE did the smart thing and got rid of forced PVP. I would be delighted to have a PVE-only Jedi, never duel anybody or stuff like that -- which I will gladly leave to the 15-year old boys that need to prove their manhood.
meninus wrote:
I agree with the poster - I dont like PvP.Our guild (Ahazi) is even called PvE.
Jedi is a religeon - there SOE are encouragin religeous persecution = very naughty.
The idea that some dribbling BH is the right sort to bea missionary of the empire/alliance after a few measely hours of grinding isvery silly.
BH should have something to loose if they loose - they should loose xp in the same way jedi do but in proportiontion to the grind.
And also get a nasty rash.
Jacella wrote:
Of course it would...then everyone would want a jedi, have one in a month and they'd have to change the name of the game to Jedi Online, since nobody would play anything else but their jedi.
pussycat wrote:
Only folks who are not SW fan would understand why one would be willing to pay almost any price to play Jedi in SWG, even if you positively couldn't care less for PVP.
Forced PVP and insane grinding are the price you have to pay to do something you enjoy in the game... so you try to get the grinding over with and find ways to minimize the inconvenience of pesky BH's out to prove their manhood and make themselves feel important by attacking other players.
So just grind it to full template ASAP, then have fun making BH's waste as much time as possible on missions they aren't going to win. Not because you'll kill them (that would be giving them content) but because you'll make it impossible for them to fight you - by any means necessary. And every minute they waste on you or any other full template means the low-level paddies have one less BH to worry about!
In all honesty, a lot of ill will between players would just disappear if SOE did the smart thing and got rid of forced PVP. I would be delighted to have a PVE-only Jedi, never duel anybody or stuff like that -- which I will gladly leave to the 15-year old boys that need to prove their manhood.
But as it is, almost everyone wants to have a Jedi... if they don't already have one. And where do you get the idea that you can have a Jedi in a month? You cannot go from glowy to padawan in less than 18 weeks, there's no getting around the village phases. And with XP changes it likely takes closer to 6 months or longer.