Jedi Archive
Thread: Forcecost vs Mindcost, Bacta Jab+BactaShot vs TotalHeal
Rebel-head wrote:
Doesn't total heal cure all damage and states?
and bf, but its costly. Hence its a master skill.
JessieJames19 wrote:
Rebel-head wrote:
Doesn't total heal cure all damage and states?
and bf, but its costly. Hence its a master skill.
Okay so why is it being compared with bacta shot/jab which only heals damage? Jedi have amazing abilities that other professions come no-where near to. But because the damage healing over time is less than Doctor they must be under-powered?
Drazharr wrote:I have spent awhile thinking if 4004 Enhancer is a better addition to Master Defender than 40xx Healer, both becouse of being able to quickly regenerate your force, but also since you have Force Suppression available, which helps when you are snared due to Avoid Incap.
MsNil, I'm wresting with an "all-or-nothing" choice. I almost know how you're gonna answer this question, lol, but I'm still gonna ask it 'cause I can't decide:
Do I ditch healing altogether and go Master Defender/MP or MLS/4004 Enhancer, or do I just give up and become an MD/MP or MLS/4040 or 4004 healer and use Avoid Incap or Force Run off when my force bar starts approaching 2000 or so?
I'm MLS/MP/4040 Healer now, and that's definitely not playable since the Pub 19 healing nerf. And I'm gonna stay a double master, two-four template.
Rebel-head wrote:
Doesn't total heal cure all damage and states?
MsNiL wrote:
Rebel-head wrote:
Doesn't total heal cure all damage and states?
The fact that Total Heal heals states/dots as well became pointless after the CU. No more dot weapons, no more dangerous states. Besides, Heal States do not share the same timer as Total Heal, and cost 50+25 per state healed. Total Heal costs 50 per state healed.
So if you have 2 or more states, it's cheaper to hit the Heal States button before you do a Total Heal.
Doctors can do the same with stabelizers.
Ephrath wrote:
May I ask a question? If your so upset about this, why don't you respec from Master Healer to Master Doctor? Since, as you seem to be expressing, it's better for you in the long run....
Now go trolling the Commando or Fencer forum and ask them to play something else, and behold the wrath of the kind that fight for their right to be what they want to be, despite flawed execution.
If you are at -3000 damage you are alive thanks to nothing but your buffs, so discussing how much damage you can heal at once beyond that is pointless. You still pay 1 force for every 10 damage healed.
Ephrath wrote:
Beats me.It sounds like he's saying he can only heal 2.5k with master healer or something.I dont think he knows how to display all thefacts so people can compare and make a desision for themselves.
All facts can be found in my [Players Handbook: Force Healer]: The Quintessental guide to Master Healer post, that may be found here:
BDragon wrote:
I have a question MsNiL, do you kno any MLS with 700+ sabers? I would love to do this testing myself, but i dont know a single master healer. Im interested to see if MHealer has enough healing DPS to keep up with MLS damage. If they cant, then we have 1 of two situations.
1: Jedi are intended to have defence AND healing to survive damage output
2: Jedi are not intended to out-heal damage
I really would like to know which it is, for the sake of other Jedi out there...
If you are hit by a MLS with a 700 lightsaber who swaps Head Hit + Leg Hit you will take 2296 damage in 6 seconds, using 20% mitigation on both energy and elemental damage. You can outheal this damage through the use of Total Heal, and if you do nothing but this you can outheal this damage for 1 minute and 12 seconds. After that your force is drained.
A MDef/4000 who do the same will take 1363 damage in 6 seconds, using 52,5% mitigation on both energy and elemental damage. You can outheal this damage through the use of Force Heal, and if you do nothing but this you can outheal this damage for 4 minutes and 48 seconds. After that your force is drained.
So it's just a question about how long your force last. A large heal is always more expensive than a low heal.
Now lets assume forcecost for Total Heal was reduced to 10 base cost.
If you are hit by a MLS with a 700 lightsaber who swaps Head Hit + Leg Hit you will take 2296 damage in 6 seconds, using 20% mitigation on both energy and elemental damage. You can outheal this damage through the use of Total Heal, and if you do nothing but this you can outheal this damage for2 minutes and48 seconds. After that your force is drained.
Rebel-head wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
Rebel-head wrote:
Doesn't total heal cure all damage and states?
The fact that Total Heal heals states/dots as well became pointless after the CU. No more dot weapons, no more dangerous states. Besides, Heal States do not share the same timer as Total Heal, and cost 50+25 per state healed. Total Heal costs 50 per state healed.
So if you have 2 or more states, it's cheaper to hit the Heal States button before you do a Total Heal.
Doctors can do the same with stabelizers.
Does it heal poison, disease and fire?
Nice work MsNil. Looks like the devs need to go back to the drawing boards on this discipline (or jedi, for that matter) 
I'm wondering, if they reduced mind costs, would it be better to have each skill in healer to be selectable itself? I know docs have the edge with cooldown timers (with the conjunction of bacta jab+bactashot), so wouldn't it be worthwhile for jedi to have an edge as well? Automatically jedi should be able to heal 3k with advanced heal, improved heal, and regular heal in no time at all,yet the limit is only up to 1.5k heal every 6 seconds.....not balanced at all. I would love to see total heal changed drastically force-cost wise in the master box, as well as anadvanced infusion (500 HOT) in master and possibly advanced shocks and saps as well. That would promote master healer to "wanted status" rather than a junk pile as it is now.
So if Jedi heal better than Doctors, where does that leave those none-Jedi who wish to play a support role in the group? They may as well just grind a double master combat template if Jedi can do all the work of a Doc bar revive. No profession should be negated in this game that is why Doctors should be the alpha healers. Jedi get a little bit of everything and then all the extras, heck they even use Rifle weapons to good effect.
I know alot of people would like the Jedi trees to be split into seperate professions but as it stands they are not. It is one profession with several trees. That's the whole beauty of Jedi, it's so versatile and they can perform almost any role on the battle-field. they should never, however demote a dedicated profession to second best in it's discipline.
jimcabtv wrote:
Nice work MsNil. Looks like the devs need to go back to the drawing boards on this discipline (or jedi, for that matter)
I'm wondering, if they reduced mind costs, would it be better to have each skill in healer to be selectable itself? I know docs have the edge with cooldown timers (with the conjunction of bacta jab+bactashot), so wouldn't it be worthwhile for jedi to have an edge as well? Automatically jedi should be able to heal 3k with advanced heal, improved heal, and regular heal in no time at all,yet the limit is only up to 1.5k heal every 6 seconds.....not balanced at all. I would love to see total heal changed drastically force-cost wise in the master box, as well as anadvanced infusion (500 HOT) in master and possibly advanced shocks and saps as well. That would promote master healer to "wanted status" rather than a junk pile as it is now.
That also allows someone with the intention to be a Group Healer to divide heals upon several targets.
I'll say it again a simple fix for healer that they actually consider cause its not a big change to there coding. When you go out and ask for things that are not in game they always get pushed to the side, but when asked to adjust moves they have always atleast listened. That being said:
Just break down total heal. It should be a total heal health only. With the same fc per health point healed as the other heals. Add a heal bf button. You now have broken down total heal into 2 viable moves, and you still have the clear states and wounds buttons to do those also. Wounds do not need to be healed in battle anymore considering we dont take wounds from fire. Not the greatest fix for the proffesion but its simple and something they would consider. Master Healer would then have 3 heals on seperate timers worth using(infusion, forceheal, totalheal). Since total heal healths cost would be the same as forceheal; the healing would be viable.