Jedi Archive
Thread: My Jedi on BETA vs two different BH's
WookieOgre wrote:
IMO when a BH TEF starts, SL buffs should be negated instantly. That means any buffs on the BH should not work and any buffs from the Jedi should not work. That's truely the only way I can see this becoming balanced while letting Squad Leaders retain some usefulness. I fear if it goes live as is and makes being Jedi a joke, how long do you give it before a justified nerf call finally convinces the devs.
To be completely honest with you, as a non-BH, "legitimate" Squad Leader, I have more friends that are Jedi than Bounty Hunters. Given the fact that there are more than a handful of unsavory BH's out there who will wait until you're neck-deep spinning a lair of level 82 pikets, I would personally love to actually be able to help my Jedi friends by augmenting them in some way that will carry into their fight with the Bounty Hunter. I don't like the idea of any buff being negated at the onset of a BH TEF, because you might as well negate Doctor buffs as well, if that's the case.
I would rather see some sort of system implemented that encouraged Squad Leader to be used the way it was meant to be used, whilst not keeping us from helping our friends when they're about to get ninja-ganked by some lame ass bounty hunter. Perhaps a modifier on buff power that correlates to the number of people present in the group, or something. There's no reason why a Jedi in my grinding group shouldn't still receive my bonuses if some BH tries to gank him in the middle of a fight.
KammaRocca wrote:
So how is beating two guys, one who caught you off guard with low health and super weapons, unbalanced toward Jedi? You say that there's no way you could have beat him in live, but what makes you think all the advantages he had are going live while yours aren't?
Ah, I don't think you read my post closely enough.
ObsidianWrath wrote:
WookieOgre wrote:
IMO when a BH TEF starts, SL buffs should be negated instantly. That means any buffs on the BH should not work and any buffs from the Jedi should not work. That's truely the only way I can see this becoming balanced while letting Squad Leaders retain some usefulness. I fear if it goes live as is and makes being Jedi a joke, how long do you give it before a justified nerf call finally convinces the devs.
To be completely honest with you, as a non-BH, "legitimate" Squad Leader, I have more friends that are Jedi than Bounty Hunters. Given the fact that there are more than a handful of unsavory BH's out there who will wait until you're neck-deep spinning a lair of level 82 pikets, I would personally love to actually be able to help my Jedi friends by augmenting them in some way that will carry into their fight with the Bounty Hunter. I don't like the idea of any buff being negated at the onset of a BH TEF, because you might as well negate Doctor buffs as well, if that's the case.
I would rather see some sort of system implemented that encouraged Squad Leader to be used the way it was meant to be used, whilst not keeping us from helping our friends when they're about to get ninja-ganked by some lame ass bounty hunter. Perhaps a modifier on buff power that correlates to the number of people present in the group, or something. There's no reason why a Jedi in my grinding group shouldn't still receive my bonuses if some BH tries to gank him in the middle of a fight.
I can see your point, from a grinding Jedi's perspective. Personally I'm worried about doing quests and getting ganked by BH+SL friend. I realize you want to help your fellow friends when grinding but seriously that is the job of a Jedi. To fight 1vs1. Being killed while grinding is something Jedi have to deal with but a full template having to worry about being grouped with a SL where ever they go is unbalanced. When your friends finish their grind, what then.....are you giong to continue to hold their hands as they play this game?
Add to that the fact that if a BH is a squad leader, he has to give up other skill points in other areas and if he has a squad leader buff, he's not doing anything that you can't. It's the factional base thing in reverse basically.
WookieOgre wrote:
I said there is no way I couldn't beat him on live, more than likely no. He incapped me 3 times before I was ablet o incap him. The super buffs the Frogs gave saved my life basically.
Again, I said IF things remain as they were yesterday it will be one hit kills for BH's when facing Jedi without Defender. Where did I say I had advantages? You said it again and I marked it in yellow. Where do you find the advantage to being Melee vs a Ranged when the Ranged person was snaring me while hititng me for over 1k a shot? Only advantage I had was the fact the DeathBlow timer prevented him from killing me 3 times lol. And you won the fight.
Message Edited by KammaRocca on 10-16-2005 09:44 AM
Darth_Sushi wrote:
I can see where y'all would be worried, but I still have yet to see any example of what happens when the target is using all available defensive buffs like Toughen along withTactics or Call to Arms. There's a lot more going on here than just amping up a MBH/MRifle's ability to useSniper Shot. It's easy to scream unbalance and nerf when you're only seeing one side of the fight or just looking at half of the picture.
The devs are continuing the revisit and adjust all aspects of this design throughout the beta process. Yesterday, the Called Shot + Sniper Shot combo got a downwardadjustment, and today the multiple group buff bug was fixed. I have said it eleswhere and I will restate it here - if I was a Jedi, instead of sreaming fornerfs and threatening to quitI'd be on TC helping to test Squad Leader right now and be posting lots and lots of feedback with plenty of hard numbers from the logs.
Thanks for your concern and continued support.
I dont know man, Im both Jedi and took a SL/MBH template and man... there is some issues, although I feel its not exactly good for me to post SL issues on the Jedi boards. Sure im more leaned to Jedi sushi as you know... but there is so many things that are getting ready to get very very messy and fast.
I actully think you know it too. I had a saber of 740 damage 12 fc, 118 sac -- I could not do near the damage the BH was doing in the beta server... If with a damn near perfect saber you can't do half the damage then we have problems. Root and snare at a farther distance then I can use any powers or throw a saber -- FINE Ill even accept that -- if kept at a distance of over 20 meters a Jedi is not even worth the chance of a hit. BUT with the bonuses --- its flat out nasty-- WHICH is cool but at the same time... not good.
THE ONLY answer I see to this is one thing: When a BH takes a Live player misson DISABLE the SL buffs... on him.
Period... this is the only way to ensure a fair fight-- same for Jedi once engaged in a BH attack they drop... for him too..
This way at least they both do not have a one sided fight, because this is what it will be if this goes live like it is.
This is all starting to remind me of DAoC and being a Scout. I could one shot people with volley from max range while hidden, run away and hide again, and no one could lay a hand on me. Totally unbalanced.
I just did a test BH mission on a guy on Beta and he was smacking me every 2 seconds. He did over 2700 damage to me in 6 seconds just like the speedhack on live. 14, 16, 18, 20, dead.. Not to mention I had the KD bug too.
There are so many changes to professions in that beta, everyone should be given a second token respec. If you have not used your first you should get a second.
EmpressWSA wrote:
I had a MSL/MBH ask me just out questing if he could try and one shot me. I wanted to see if he could to test this so I said yes. I had improved FA on, no buff or anything. I just stood there to see what I got hit for. The only defender tree I have is imp aura. I could see him testing and adding new SL mods to him each time. It went something like this.
1200....1500...1700...1800...1900..1900
Then I told him I would take my FA off.
2550...2500...Incap
I couldnt heal from those fast enough. I hit my 1500 heal, and a 1200 stim. There was NO point.
MSL SHOULD NOT ENHANCE THEMSELVES. They need to rally their squad, not them. If they want the SL bonuses then there needs to be 2 in the group.
Oh and my Template is MLS/3404Enh/4020H/0040Def
Message Edited by EmpressWSA on 10-15-2005 12:17 PM
Hmmm, then the Squad leader/Bounty Hunter will just group up with a pet at the starport and tell it to stay there. Instant group and they can use their buffs.
Ackehece wrote:
again for those of you who did not read darth sushi
1) only one buff per sl allowed now (so no 1 sl can give every buff to a player)
2) no personal buffs given to yourself if you have sl
3) defensive buffs work wonders and a sl can grant them to a Jedi as easily as a BH
the problem was when this test was done
you could have a single sl give you steadyaim + volleyfire + blaze of glory + high yeild - that player then did
snipershot or critical shot or advanced legshot
be thankful that called shot and paint target did not get into the combo
now to have the same effect you would need at least 3 SLs buffing the BH (including himself if he gave up some skills to do it)
otoh I wonder how the fight would have gone if
the Jedi had all those applied by his team mates every 1/2 time that the buff would run out and or had
toughen + tactics + call to arms applied to them.
Well let's see how it pans out on live. But if people need to have an SL aorund just to survive, then something is wrong.
Ackehece wrote:
again for those of you who did not read darth sushi
1) only one buff per sl allowed now (so no 1 sl can give every buff to a player)
2) no personal buffs given to yourself if you have sl
3) defensive buffs work wonders and a sl can grant them to a Jedi as easily as a BH
the problem was when this test was done
you could have a single sl give you steadyaim + volleyfire + blaze of glory + high yeild - that player then did
snipershot or critical shot or advanced legshot
be thankful that called shot and paint target did not get into the combo
now to have the same effect you would need at least 3 SLs buffing the BH (including himself if he gave up some skills to do it)
otoh I wonder how the fight would have gone if
the Jedi had all those applied by his team mates every 1/2 time that the buff would run out and or had
toughen + tactics + call to arms applied to them.
I shall await the next BH then. Again, the attacks came yesterday after they supposedly changed it so Sniper wasn't supposed to be the uber one hit kill. Even with the changes I was hit for over 2.9k of damage on the opening attack. But still, I thought the way it worked is no single buffs can be done if you are the SL (to yourself) however the group buffs will work on you. Is that still not how it works or was that changed today?
Ackehece wrote:
otoh I wonder how the fight would have gone if the Jedi had all those applied by his team mates every 1/2 time that the buff would run out and or had toughen + tactics + call to arms applied to them.
That situationprobably createsa pretty formidible target. However, along with how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop, the world may never know - since it turns outto befar easier to jump on the nerf bandwagon than it is to actually conduct the testing neccessary to gather the data required to validate the hypothesis.
It would seemthatwhen the offensive ability of your attacker seems strong (or even overpowered) it is best to quit, run away or cry nerfrather thaninvestigate any and all defensive options. I am still waiting for somebody - anybody - to report back on the topic of the efficacy of the full suite of Squad Leader *defensive* buffs both on Jedi marks and in general PvP.
I'm not holding my breath.