Jedi Archive
Thread: Defenders will benefit most from cloak after the nerf
lol master LS/master defender with cloak is probably one of the worst templates i'm ever heard of you ahve only enough skill points to get 1000 healer with that template.
Drazharr wrote:
Skwall wrote:
Oerivo wrote:
MrDecipher wrote:
Look you have skilla defender does not. This change does not effect defenders at all. You chose a template based on crowd control and your comlaining about defences. Get real and stop whinning because now when you cloak with force run on you will not run at full speed.
Except that a defender actually has the defenses to use cloak as a first strike capability. And in mine and the posts author's opinion, having cloak will be of the MOST benefit to a defender and least benefit to those who took it as a defensive measure. It will achieve what the devs want if they want it to be first strike skill as its value for making up for lower defenses is seriously diminished.
What the hell are you talking about?The defender doesn't NEED first strike they're always the last or first target in a battle. All of the Defenders I know/repect do not care for cloak at all, it is a waste of sps for a Defender. Stop talking crap about Defender, no Defender is going to use the nerfed version cloak considering they didn't use it pre-nerf. If anything a Force Armor + Aura user is more likely to use it rather than a Defender would.
Point being, most Defenders are in 1 of3 boats: Weak healing or the inability to replenish force or not having Force speed 2/force run. Now personally, all Defenders out there in those positions would rather acquire some of those abilities rather than your "first strike cloak."
Cloak isn't meant to be a "defensive mechanism" as you state. If by defenses you mean running away when you're getting your ____ kicked then yeah, but there is no defense in cloak, hence many people don't use it for defenses anyways. We all know the abuses and uses of cloak, and Defense is primarily not one of them, its escape.
We're not entirely sure how cloak will work out, so don't judge it until there's been some testing on it. But cloak isn't meant to be a gauranteed 100% I escape w/ 200 more PVP rating button. Now it'll take better timing, more strategy, and will be limited to just running away (suceptible to Ranger devices though).
Basically, this is setting it up for FRS, you can't have an FRS based on PVP and death if you never die.
Ya' think so? An MLS/Master Defender cloaker killed me near an imp recruiter about two weeks ago.
If this cloak nerf goes live, I'm gonna seriously consider doing that kind of temp. It will give a real advantage.
And if this game is being written for the 1% of players that are gonna participate in the FRS, SWG is doomed.
MrDecipher wrote:
lol master LS/master defender with cloak is probably one of the worst templates i'm ever heard of you ahve only enough skill points to get 1000 healer with that template.
Drazharr wrote:
Skwall wrote:
Oerivo wrote:
MrDecipher wrote:
Look you have skilla defender does not. This change does not effect defenders at all. You chose a template based on crowd control and your comlaining about defences. Get real and stop whinning because now when you cloak with force run on you will not run at full speed.
Except that a defender actually has the defenses to use cloak as a first strike capability. And in mine and the posts author's opinion, having cloak will be of the MOST benefit to a defender and least benefit to those who took it as a defensive measure. It will achieve what the devs want if they want it to be first strike skill as its value for making up for lower defenses is seriously diminished.
What the hell are you talking about?The defender doesn't NEED first strike they're always the last or first target in a battle. All of the Defenders I know/repect do not care for cloak at all, it is a waste of sps for a Defender. Stop talking crap about Defender, no Defender is going to use the nerfed version cloak considering they didn't use it pre-nerf. If anything a Force Armor + Aura user is more likely to use it rather than a Defender would.
Point being, most Defenders are in 1 of3 boats: Weak healing or the inability to replenish force or not having Force speed 2/force run. Now personally, all Defenders out there in those positions would rather acquire some of those abilities rather than your "first strike cloak."
Cloak isn't meant to be a "defensive mechanism" as you state. If by defenses you mean running away when you're getting your ____ kicked then yeah, but there is no defense in cloak, hence many people don't use it for defenses anyways. We all know the abuses and uses of cloak, and Defense is primarily not one of them, its escape.
We're not entirely sure how cloak will work out, so don't judge it until there's been some testing on it. But cloak isn't meant to be a gauranteed 100% I escape w/ 200 more PVP rating button. Now it'll take better timing, more strategy, and will be limited to just running away (suceptible to Ranger devices though).
Basically, this is setting it up for FRS, you can't have an FRS based on PVP and death if you never die.
Ya' think so? An MLS/Master Defender cloaker killed me near an imp recruiter about two weeks ago.
If this cloak nerf goes live, I'm gonna seriously consider doing that kind of temp. It will give a real advantage.
And if this game is being written for the 1% of players that are gonna participate in the FRS, SWG is doomed.
You don't have to be Master Defender, bro. This guy happened to be one and when he came out of cloak, he nailed me. I have no defense in my template as a MLS/MEnhancer. I had no chance.
Now this nerf is extending that "no chance" to anyone that has cloak in their template with no defender. So, thinking logically, what kind of post-cloak template should you take to maximize your Jedi kills?
An MLS/Defender template with cloak in it. It's gonna be the new winner and new champion!
Same as the old champion before the AI snare nerf.
Drazharr wrote:
Get the picture now?
Now, if you're a Master Defender, you can use cloak without fear - you don't have to run, you can stand and fight. Understand the problem now? Understand why we'll have a lot more Defender templates now, with cloak in them? Understand why this cloak "cure" is gonna be worse than the illness?
I'm sure you don't.
Yeah, and right nowif you're master defender + master enhancer + cloak you can run into a group of 50 overts and still make it out alive. All you have to do is decloak, AI, Force Run 3 into a group, hit them w/ saber hit a couple times then cloak away...
But no one wants a gimped template like that. Besides, you get great Defenseses w/ just Force Armor 2 and Aura, and template diversisty than you would w/ Defender. In other words, you should really think about what it is that you're argueing and that your post has little to do w/ defender, if anything.
Most MasterDefender Templates are Master Defender/Master Lightsaber w/ the following variations: 2 lines in healing, 1 line in healer + 1 box in Enhancer, 3 boxes in healer + 2 boxes in enhancer, 2 boxes in healer + 3 boxes in enhancer. Now obviously, the majority of defenders lack either good healing, no force speed, no force regeneartion. Most Defenders would rather cover some of those areas rather than pick up the "first strike cloak."
Also, in a practical sense, your situation just isn't realistic, maybe to the exceptions of jedi, but the majority of jedi...no. I love fighting defenders, they start to AI, just root them and watch them waste 1k force....No one will change their template to accomodate cloak anyways, most people would rather just drop that skill there.
Phantom513 wrote:
Im an Mdef/mls 4000 heal and i dont see any need to pick up cloak. I dont like cloak anyways but im not for nerfing anymore jedi skills even if it is a skill I dont like.
Thanks, man.
Drazharr wrote:
duurron wrote:
who says that u are still snared when u uncloak? pls link i cant find that comment...
Lol, lemme see if I can explain this in MP/MLS/4040 Healer terms:
1. You cloak and with the new nerf, crawl into your much vaunted "alpha-strike" position. Since you are crawling, however, a third of your force is gone.
2. You de-cloak and blast your victim with everything you have for three or four attacks.
3. He blasts back and since you have no defenses, you need to get away. You cloak. Uh-oh, you are moving like a snail again. And two-thirds of your force is gone.
4. Your "victim" waits until the final third of your force is gone, you involuntarily de-cloak and die.
Get the picture now?
Now, if you're a Master Defender, you can use cloak without fear - you don't have to run, you can stand and fight. Understand the problem now? Understand why we'll have a lot more Defender templates now, with cloak in them? Understand why this cloak "cure" is gonna be worse than the illness?
I'm sure you don't.
Message Edited by Drazharr on 09-19-2005 06:24 PM
yup, cos cloak is a waiste for me, if u wanna attack, take mls or mpowers and some defense, sh!t on first strike ppff, what does it mean? Can u kill your opponent, cos u hit him first? lmao
duurron wrote:
Drazharr wrote:
duurron wrote:
who says that u are still snared when u uncloak? pls link i cant find that comment...
Lol, lemme see if I can explain this in MP/MLS/4040 Healer terms:
1. You cloak and with the new nerf, crawl into your much vaunted "alpha-strike" position. Since you are crawling, however, a third of your force is gone.
2. You de-cloak and blast your victim with everything you have for three or four attacks.
3. He blasts back and since you have no defenses, you need to get away. You cloak. Uh-oh, you are moving like a snail again. And two-thirds of your force is gone.
4. Your "victim" waits until the final third of your force is gone, you involuntarily de-cloak and die.
Get the picture now?
Now, if you're a Master Defender, you can use cloak without fear - you don't have to run, you can stand and fight. Understand the problem now? Understand why we'll have a lot more Defender templates now, with cloak in them? Understand why this cloak "cure" is gonna be worse than the illness?
I'm sure you don't.
Message Edited by Drazharr on 09-19-2005 06:24 PM
yup, cos cloak is a waiste for me, if u wanna attack, take mls or mpowers and some defense, sh!t on first strike ppff, what does it mean? Can u kill your opponent, cos u hit him first? lmao
Yeah, the way the combat system is now, the first strike means everything. You have to get your opponent into that healing loop.
But with this cloak nerf, I won't be able to do that unless I use my token respec and switch to Defender.
And it's not right for us to be forced to do that. Can't you see that? Guess not.
Drazharr wrote:
duurron wrote:
Drazharr wrote:
duurron wrote:
who says that u are still snared when u uncloak? pls link i cant find that comment...
Lol, lemme see if I can explain this in MP/MLS/4040 Healer terms:
1. You cloak and with the new nerf, crawl into your much vaunted "alpha-strike" position. Since you are crawling, however, a third of your force is gone.
2. You de-cloak and blast your victim with everything you have for three or four attacks.
3. He blasts back and since you have no defenses, you need to get away. You cloak. Uh-oh, you are moving like a snail again. And two-thirds of your force is gone.
4. Your "victim" waits until the final third of your force is gone, you involuntarily de-cloak and die.
Get the picture now?
Now, if you're a Master Defender, you can use cloak without fear - you don't have to run, you can stand and fight. Understand the problem now? Understand why we'll have a lot more Defender templates now, with cloak in them? Understand why this cloak "cure" is gonna be worse than the illness?
I'm sure you don't.
Message Edited by Drazharr on 09-19-2005 06:24 PM
yup, cos cloak is a waiste for me, if u wanna attack, take mls or mpowers and some defense, sh!t on first strike ppff, what does it mean? Can u kill your opponent, cos u hit him first? lmao
Yeah, the way the combat system is now, the first strike means everything. You have to get your opponent into that healing loop.
But with this cloak nerf, I won't be able to do that unless I use my token respec and switch to Defender.
And it's not right for us to be forced to do that. Can't you see that? Guess not.
no cant, cloakers are self responsible for such a nerf, its finally the end of exploiting cloakers in the dwb and thats why i dont miss it and btw, i never saw a cloaker, one on one defeating someone with FA2 and Aura, so first strike is absolutely useless, if u have a cloaking gank squad..ok, but then it makes me even more happy that it gets nerfed!
MrDecipher wrote:
You realize the only PvP benefit from defender over 0400enhancer is aura right. Which is a line that is easily dabbled.
Valor line is good, too, IMHO.
I got news for you boss. There is no way in the world, I, my brother, or my friends that are MLS/MD would ever give up our healing or force speed for cloak. LOL! You first strike me, and I will put you flat on your ass, then we can talk about a healing loop.
Drazharr wrote:
Yeah, the way the combat system is now, the first strike means everything. You have to get your opponent into that healing loop.
TorqueMonster wrote:
I got news for you boss. There is no way in the world, I, my brother, or my friends that are MLS/MD would ever give up our healing or force speed for cloak. LOL! You first strike me, and I will put you flat on your ass, then we can talk about a healing loop.
Drazharr wrote:
Yeah, the way the combat system is now, the first strike means everything. You have to get your opponent into that healing loop.
