Jedi Archive
Thread: Details of Cloak Nerf
I agree with ya' then, bro!
trajen2 wrote:
i think it all seems "reasonable" except for not being able to heal yourself and the snare effect...
I can understand that Rangers, when being "Stealthy" should by definitiion be slower but Force Cloak is something different altogether...
The reasoning behind adding the snare to prevent it from being used as an escape mechanism is rediculous... why shouldn't jedi who choose to be evasive rather then combative be penalized?
If they add the snare without taking the ability to use /follow or the other exploit that alllows one ot attack a cloaked jedi, then this is indeed a heavy nerf
Jacella wrote:
HOW is it that huge of a nerf. Because you sprint in? Does Burst Run not work when snared? Parawan cakes? In it's currenty incarnation, the skill is on par with a Master Level skill, not some 0400. The change is simply a change in strategy, nothing more. If you use it properly, it will still be extremely effective. Adjust your tactics.
Jacella, I have to adjust more than my tactics. I have to ditch my template. I'm an MLS/MP/4040 Healer. I don't have Force Run.
rscheibler wrote:
Drazharr wrote:
Amil wrote:
They should really fix the bugs with cloak before anything. For example, attacking while cloaked or mounting swoops. And for the love of all that his holy, they need to fix /follow and /examine (as they did with /tar and the volumetric shadows).
I don't see the nerf as all that bad. The snare sucks, but if that is all they are doing to cloak there will still be people crying for more of a nerf saying that it wasn't enough.
Adding an Avoid Incap-type snare to cloak makes this skill useless for everyone but the MLS/Defenders who dabble in cloak. They have the defenses to survive a snare, while MLS/MPs and MLS/Master Enhancers don't.
Another incredibly stupid move, if it goes live.
Exactly!
And another thing, lol, not only do Defenders have more defense to survive this nerf, they don't use much force while doing it. Enhancers and Powers folks use tons of force so that makes this nerf incredibly worse for them.
This does nothing to get rid of the Cloak dabblers, but it does strip the use of cloak away from the folks that are supposed to be using it - Master Powers and Master Enhancers.
Amil wrote:
Drazharr wrote:
Amil wrote:
They should really fix the bugs with cloak before anything. For example, attacking while cloaked or mounting swoops. And for the love of all that his holy, they need to fix /follow and /examine (as they did with /tar and the volumetric shadows).
I don't see the nerf as all that bad. The snare sucks, but if that is all they are doing to cloak there will still be people crying for more of a nerf saying that it wasn't enough.
Adding an Avoid Incap-type snare to cloak makes this skill useless for everyone but the MLS/Defenders who dabble in cloak. They have the defenses to survive a snare, while MLS/MPs and MLS/Master Enhancers don't.
Another incredibly stupid move, if it goes live.
Part of it depends on how drastic the snare effect is.My guess is that the snare will only apply while the cloak is toggled on. So you should be able to sneak up but just slower than before it will take more force to get to your target. And as far as retreating, get 20m away and you will cloak. Sure, you will be snared and you should be able to get away if they can't target or hit you (but it will work only if theyfix /follow).
And if you have force run the snare effect should be mitigated a little (if they let you use force run).Also, root would help in escape tactics. In this respect, dabblers with enhancer skills would be least affected.
So you're forcing all cloak users to have Force Run now? Jeez.
I'm a MLS/MP/4040 Healer. I don't have Force Run. I wish folks would stop telling me to use it, lol.
Jacella wrote:
Before freaking out, see what the effect is, and I am sure that there are ways around it. Yes, any nerfs suck. I have been the victim of several with my template, but I always find a way around it.
Drazharr wrote:
Jacella wrote:
HOW is it that huge of a nerf. Because you sprint in? Does Burst Run not work when snared? Parawan cakes? In it's currenty incarnation, the skill is on par with a Master Level skill, not some 0400. The change is simply a change in strategy, nothing more. If you use it properly, it will still be extremely effective. Adjust your tactics.
Jacella, I have to adjust more than my tactics. I have to ditch my template. I'm an MLS/MP/4040 Healer. I don't have Force Run.
Stop giving your standard "adjust your tactics" response, becuase this time, you're wrong.
Please, everyone knows the correct method to deal with nerfs is the assume the worst, especialy with SOE's track record. How about they fix the exploits that break cloak first then we'll talk about the need for a snare. Wait, can't do that, that might make sense.
Jacella wrote:
Before freaking out, see what the effect is, and I am sure that there are ways around it. Yes, any nerfs suck. I have been the victim of several with my template, but I always find a way around it.
Drazharr wrote:
Jacella wrote:
HOW is it that huge of a nerf. Because you sprint in? Does Burst Run not work when snared? Parawan cakes? In it's currenty incarnation, the skill is on par with a Master Level skill, not some 0400. The change is simply a change in strategy, nothing more. If you use it properly, it will still be extremely effective. Adjust your tactics.
Jacella, I have to adjust more than my tactics. I have to ditch my template. I'm an MLS/MP/4040 Healer. I don't have Force Run.
Stop giving your standard "adjust your tactics" response, becuase this time, you're wrong.
I'm just quoting the info on this forum from Bacc, who says the cloak snare will be like the Avoid Incap snare.
That's worth freaking out about!
Message Edited by Drazharr on 09-19-2005 01:17 PM
I have a hard enough time standing outside MO to wait for an overt to become occupied if one shows up and run in while cloaked and attack, the amount of players and NPCs in MO will diminish my force with a snare so there goes the idea of "first strike".
The number of master force wielders will dramatically drop, including myself if this goes live and if the FRS reopens, and if it'll be based on duels or Light vs Dark PvP then it will be dominated by one or two types of templates only.
Consider the scenario where you are standing next to your friend. He is in combat; you are not. Neither of you are cloaked.
It is logical that any action that would cause you to enter combat in the situation above should not be permitted while cloaked at any time. Healing a friend should reveal you. Healing yourself should not. Buffing yourself (aura, armour) should not.
Nerf?
The proposed changes will disallow healing of a friend in combat. This is not a nerf but a fix. Not being able to use terminals or loot stuff is fairly logical and could reasonably be called a fix. The proposal is vague as to whether healing yourself would be disallowed. That would be a nerf.
And of course the big deal is that cloak will be getting a snare. Whether or not you believe the prophets of doom and conclude that cloak will henceforth be useless, I don't see how any could deny that adding a snare to a skill is a nerf, especially when that skill drains more Force when you are in proximity to more people; people it will be harder to get away from.
The impact
If they don't fix a) mobs aggroing you and following you around and b) people being able to /follow etc, the proposed changes will hit cloakers hard. Cloak as a PVE tool will become more or less worthless as you lead a trail of mobs around, draining your Force and unable to get away from them to decloak and regen. Cloak in PVP will lose a good deal of its effectiveness. Still useful as a first strike tool perhaps but useless as a method of escape and evasion.
I specifically don't mention the "interacting with the world" issue above because if mobs don't aggro and follow you should be able to find a safe spot to decloak and use your first strike advantage to clear a path to the lootbox, or simply decloak on top of it and deal with the ambush.
The end of the world?
No I don't think so; not if they fix the bugs at the same time as implementing the nerf. But a nerf all the same.
QFE
chewboywa wrote:
The concept of "first strike" for cloak as a master force wielder isn't viable with a snare, force wielder needs to be rendered more powerful for this "first strike" to work more effectively. Of course the Defender dabblers won't think of it as a big deal, you have the defenses and oftenwise MLS to boot, what good is master force wielder against other Jedi? I do not PvP against other Jedi often with my template due to lack of damage, and Force wielder is supposed to be a nuker as it was before the CURB.
I have a hard enough time standing outside MO to wait for an overt to become occupied if one shows up and run in while cloaked and attack, the amount of players and NPCs in MO will diminish my force with a snare so there goes the idea of "first strike".
The number of master force wielders will dramatically drop, including myself if this goes live and if the FRS reopens, and if it'll be based on duels or Light vs Dark PvP then it will be dominated by one or two types of templates only.
Fluke_SillyWalker wrote:
OK, I accpet the nerf, but the force cost should be removed. Oh and also Thansk Devs, for making Master Powers more worthless, you just made my gaming experience the best its ever been.
Well they made the majority of people's gaming experience that much better! No more cloaked base shutdowns! Thank God. I also hope this fixes the exploit where some Jedi were able to attack people cloaked and stay cloaked while doing it. In my opinion cloak should work exactly like camo or cover where if your enemy gets close to you you are revealed.
Drazharr wrote:
Amil wrote:
Drazharr wrote:
Amil wrote:
They should really fix the bugs with cloak before anything. For example, attacking while cloaked or mounting swoops. And for the love of all that his holy, they need to fix /follow and /examine (as they did with /tar and the volumetric shadows).
I don't see the nerf as all that bad. The snare sucks, but if that is all they are doing to cloak there will still be people crying for more of a nerf saying that it wasn't enough.
Adding an Avoid Incap-type snare to cloak makes this skill useless for everyone but the MLS/Defenders who dabble in cloak. They have the defenses to survive a snare, while MLS/MPs and MLS/Master Enhancers don't.
Another incredibly stupid move, if it goes live.
Part of it depends on how drastic the snare effect is.My guess is that the snare will only apply while the cloak is toggled on. So you should be able to sneak up but just slower than before it will take more force to get to your target. And as far as retreating, get 20m away and you will cloak. Sure, you will be snared and you should be able to get away if they can't target or hit you (but it will work only if theyfix /follow).
And if you have force run the snare effect should be mitigated a little (if they let you use force run).Also, root would help in escape tactics. In this respect, dabblers with enhancer skills would be least affected.
So you're forcing all cloak users to have Force Run now? Jeez.
I'm a MLS/MP/4040 Healer. I don't have Force Run. I wish folks would stop telling me to use it, lol.
Relax dude. Try not to be so reactionary. I wasn't telling anyone to use forcerun andI wasn't saying that M powers ought to "be forced" to pick up force run. I was merely stating a simple fact that dabblers will be better off if they have enhancer. It will be much worse for master powers to be sure for the simple reason that many will not have force run. And I hear a lot of people saying that this nerf will get rid of dabblers, when they are the ones who will be least affected for that reason.
Message Edited by SuperchargedDai on 09-19-2005 04:34 PM
SuperchargedDai wrote:
Will Force Cloak affect Force Meditate, as in Can i still go into meditate while cloaked....and can i still FR while cloaked? whats the deal?
We don't know about Meditate yet, but as we understand the devs' early thinking, going into Force Run will break cloak.
Message Edited by Drazharr on 09-19-2005 07:33 PM