Jedi Archive

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Jacella wrote:

There is a substantially easier solution: Increase all timers globally. This would increase the speed of all combat and thus make it so there aren't any more 30 - 40 min fights. Additionally, the best way to avoid forced pvp is to not gain visibility. These two factors would decrease the needs for people wanting to be pve only jedi.

Did I ever mention that I don't believe in PVE only jedi yet?

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So which is it???

Message Edited by TheCapn2000 on 09-22-2005 08:20 AM

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HardwiredXMan wrote:

It doesn't matter what profession you are. The content placed in this game is supposed to be for all to enjoy. When any profession (but we are talking about jedi here) has to be deprived of the fun they are having by participating in any of that content through the actions of another player, it's called grieving.

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Totally incorrect.

It DOES matter what profession you are because all jedi explicitly received warning that we are to be hunted, and every single one of us has an opportunity to not participate in the 1 single profession in this game in which PvP is inherent.

You are NOT being grieved when a BH comes after you because that is an inherent part of the profession in which we all CHOSE to participate.

Jedi are to be hunted by Bounty Hunters. By choosing to be jedi - and yes it's your choice - you are also agreeing to be hunted by Bounty Hunters. If you do not want to be hunted by Bounty Hunters then stop being a jedi.

Stop trying to ruin our profession because you can't abide by your agreement to be hunted.

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GlargTheKelfn wrote:
just let jedi go sf and be on the terms, if you are on leave, you are pve. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN THE GAME

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Stop repeating this moronic idea

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Jacella wrote:

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TheCapn2000 wrote:

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Jacella wrote:

There is a substantially easier solution: Increase all timers globally. This would increase the speed of all combat and thus make it so there aren't any more 30 - 40 min fights. Additionally, the best way to avoid forced pvp is to not gain visibility. These two factors would decrease the needs for people wanting to be pve only jedi.

Did I ever mention that I don't believe in PVE only jedi yet?

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So which is it???

Message Edited by TheCapn2000 on 09-22-2005 08:20 AM

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Nice necro and good research. The date of that was March 7th, 2005. I have since changed my stance with the change if Group Vis, no more cloning xp loss, the overall nerfing of our profession, and the serious changes to the GCW.

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dont forget the fact that you now have a completed jedi template...

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Windrider01 wrote:

Role playing and pvp are not mutually exclusive, incorporate pvp into your roleplaying. One does not get in the way of the other; it's hardly fun to roleplay with stale npc's include theBH into your RP. Lets not forget this is ammorp - you would have us ignore the massive multiplayerpart of the game...learn to play with others.

Trying to make all professions equal is not good for the game; it will lose its uniqueness/ variety. It's really simple if you don't want to heal don't become a doctor, if you don't want to wield a sword don't become a swordman...and if you don't want to deal with Bounty Hunters or PvP then don't become a Jedi.

I want to stress no one is forced to PvP; every jedi knew full well what they were getting into. Accept the responsibility for the chooses you make, and deal with the consequences.

If you really have a problem with other people impacting your game then play a single player. You are not denied content but rather you have the option for content that most professions don't aka BH vs Jedi.

I like to quest and do things other than PvP, but I don't have a problem accepting that BH's can come for me anytime. It adds to the overall experience, a simple quest to kill some duebacks becomes interesting when i have to worry about being attacked by a BH. It adds excitement and turns an otherwise mundane quest into something fun. Jedi is more of an end game for players that have tried most everything else; to turn the Jedi into a regular profession ruins it for vets who want something different. If you want to do quests / RP / PvE without the added dimension of being hunted then ....stick with a normal profession.

/flame on

It's a shame SWG doesn't let the dancers wield a light saber then maybe the carebears wouldn't infest my profession

/flame off

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Eurus Widrider

IA -Looter of Broken Data Pads

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I would agree with you for the most part, but my issue is nothing that your talking about. I don't want to totally avoid pvp at all. I don't want to separate jedi into PVP and PVE types either like some people do. My issue is that for every single player who plays this game, we all log on to do specific things at specific times. If your intentions are to log on to complete a certain missionor content and all you have is an hour maybe two to get it done or partially done, but here comes a BH taking up 30 minutes of that time and you have no choice but to either run if you don' t want to waste 30 minutes fighting them or go ahead and fight them, but lose 30 minutes which you clearly wanted to dedicate to that mission. It destroys your own Personal idea of what is fun for you at the moment. The current system has no flexibility to allow a jedi who has limited time to enjoy anything else the game has to offer because your time is being taking up by another player attacking you while your in the middle of doing your quest / content.

Sure I could do the content with my alt...but when my alt is a crafter, how do you expect them to do a combat quest when the CL difference will totally rule that out. The answer is not to make your alt a combat character either. The rules do not state that you unlock jedi then you must make your alt a combatant if you want to enjoy anything other than PVP.

this is where choices come into play. Sure we all knew what came along with becoming a jedi. However, the combat system has changed, the jedi profession has changed, the BH profession has changed. The currentBh/jedi PVPsystem does not need to be developed under the principles of the old system. The system should be modified so that all players can make a choice of how to play the game without another player impacting how you play the game for such a long period of time. 30 minutes is a long period of time when you have job, school, kids, other responsibilies. So regardless if this is a Multiplayer game or not that you must learn to play with others, giving any person the ability to "FORCE" another player to take 30 mins out of their limited gaming time is something that just shouldn't exist. The original time frame for the average pvp encounter was said by the devs to be 3 - 5 minutes way back in the CU patch notes. Becaus of the changes to CU (the healing, the /bugs, the uber loot that makes top of the line gear...etc.), it has changed that 3 -5 min encounter to 30 mins in the case that both players are reasonable knowledgable of PVPing.

Too often the pvp encounter result in 30 min or longer fights and that is the main underlying issue. As far as I'm concerned, everyting else you mentioned are correct, but I'm more concerened with the system having flexibility for all types of players and not just the players who feel like you do (that welcome the unpredictablity of being attacked anytime anywhere.) The fact of the matter is that just because the system was made to allow one player to control when, where, how and the most disturbing,how often they can affect another players playing experience, doesn't mean it's ok. The system is flawed and rather acknowledge the flaw, people would rather support the flaw because it fits what they like to do or they simply have just chosen to accept the flaw.

So the issue is not about learning to play with other players. It's more aboutcertain players totally controlling another players playing experience. That system is visiblity and BH missions in which you have absolutely no choice if your want to be a jedi. So therefore you are forced into doing something you don't want to do at the time. That's not to say that a person never wants to pvp under the BH system. All I'm saying is that there needs to be some flexibility in the system because in it's current state, player A's playing experience with their jedi is totally influenced and sometimes controlled by another players actions.

So yes we should play a mulitplayer game with others, but no other player should alter what, how or when I want to do something at their leisure, it should be at my leisure and any encounters we have should be because we both consented.

If there was a system in place that allowed jedi to get an option when they log on that ask if you want your current game session to be pvp enabled, then that would be fine by me...because then if I choose yes and a BH attacks me while i'm doing a quest, I'm not upset because I chose to be attackable and I was more than likely in the mood to deal with the attack. However, I may be in a mood where I just want to log on for an hour and do my own thing and not even interact with a BH at all, because I simply don't want to be bothered with that aspect of the game at the time. It's just like if you don't want to be bothered with killing krayts, you don't take your butt to the krayt graveyard, but you have a choice at all times and that's what I'd like to have with my jedi. If we can't get that small request, then at the very least like someone posted above, allow jedi to engage other players the same as Bh's do to jedi. I'm sure the community uproar would be load as soon as a jedi attacks a BH sitting at the BH terminal looking for a npc mark to kill for the loot.

Right now, a BH has sole control of when they want to alter another players gaming experience and the end result serves no purposeat alldue to the devs practically given jedi away these days. The often used counter to this is to not get vis and stay off the terminals, but again that's forcing a player to not be allowed to enjoy nearly 80% of the game....because if you do stay off the terms and don't get vis, all you can do is fight creatures in the wild and can never do any quest for fear of getting on the terms and having a BH alter your playing experience at the very moment you don't want them to.

It's a game, that's the bottom line. It's not a simulation of star wars either. we all want to have fun and have the freedom to play how we want, when we want, with whom we want and where we want so as long as we are not make another players game experience undesirable. Once we dive into the realm of altering another players experience where that player cannot do anything about it besides being told to give up the profession they love, then we have a major problem there and something needs to change or be altered. jedi are no longer 5x more powerful and some believe that jedi is even with BH/CM templates which means that if that is anywhere near correct, the BH mission system is totally unecessary.

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TheCapn2000 wrote:

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Jacella wrote:

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TheCapn2000 wrote:

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Jacella wrote:

There is a substantially easier solution: Increase all timers globally. This would increase the speed of all combat and thus make it so there aren't any more 30 - 40 min fights. Additionally, the best way to avoid forced pvp is to not gain visibility. These two factors would decrease the needs for people wanting to be pve only jedi.

Did I ever mention that I don't believe in PVE only jedi yet?

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So which is it???

Message Edited by TheCapn2000 on 09-22-2005 08:20 AM

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Nice necro and good research. The date of that was March 7th, 2005. I have since changed my stance with the change if Group Vis, no more cloning xp loss, the overall nerfing of our profession, and the serious changes to the GCW.

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dont forget the fact that you now have a completed jedi template...

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That, and I was hunted several dozen times, only dying twice. Heck...Voritors and random FS baddies cause me more xp loss than any BH.

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Kev0r wrote:

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Xato wrote:

As a full template Jedi with no interest in PvP at all

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So why even go for jedi in the first place? You knew the limitations and yet still went ahead.

There is no better system in place to limit jedi numbers than other players.

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bah what a load of B*ll*X man.... this is a star wars game......let me think about what is cool about star wars.....mmm off the top of my head i will choose one item out of many aaaaaah yes jedi they are great i would love to be one..........cool a game where u can become one that would be excellent.........yay i have finally become a jedi, took a long time but yes i am a jedi thats great......oh nice now i HAVE TO FIGHT BH BECAUSE I AM THEIR CONTENT......all i want to do is be a jedi as this is STAR WARS after all but no i also have to be forced into pvp if i want to enjoy the game as a whole and hunt npc's etc becuse that will give me vis..........DONE... why not let us have a choice.... as the original poster stated......

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czaeba wrote:

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HardwiredXMan wrote:

It doesn't matter what profession you are. The content placed in this game is supposed to be for all to enjoy. When any profession (but we are talking about jedi here) has to be deprived of the fun they are having by participating in any of that content through the actions of another player, it's called grieving.

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Totally incorrect.

It DOES matter what profession you are because all jedi explicitly received warning that we are to be hunted, and every single one of us has an opportunity to not participate in the 1 single profession in this game in which PvP is inherent.

You are NOT being grieved when a BH comes after you because that is an inherent part of the profession in which we all CHOSE to participate.

Jedi are to be hunted by Bounty Hunters. By choosing to be jedi - and yes it's your choice - you are also agreeing to be hunted by Bounty Hunters. If you do not want to be hunted by Bounty Hunters then stop being a jedi.

Stop trying to ruin our profession because you can't abide by your agreement to be hunted.

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First of all, it's not just your profession....it's every person who pays to play this game profession whether they have a jedi or not.

Second,you have it wrong, In that particular paragraphI'm not talking about one or two BH's coming after you. I was thinking of all the jedi who get a single BH or group of BH whole get their mission, encounter them (win or lose) and then immediately go back and get the mission again and again and again at their hearts content and all the jedi can do about it is accept it. Sure it's part of the game, but it's still grieving and it shouldn't be allowed. I don't care if I win or lose, but I do care that you are bugging me over and over again because of your pride of defeating me or your anger for losing to me. So through a designed system, SOE is advocating grieving players, but because SOE does has this system in place, the players that take advantage of it don't want to call it grieving. They find it fun while the jedi doesn't. It's the classic bully mentatily. I'm sorry, I do not fear you, I don't hate you, I do not love you.....I simply don't want you taking up 30 minutes of my time when I get nothing out of it...especially when being a jedi to me is far far from seeking players out to PVP. If I wanted to live by the jedi code, I cannot in this game because the game totally goes against the code for even lightside jedi. To only use the force in defense is an understatement, after you finish your template, all that's left other than the new content the devs give us is to defend yourself from Bh's......

So grieving is grieving no matter how a game mechanic makes it legal.

on thing i would like to add to that idea is this. Even if they dont change the bh vs jedi dynamic i would say that a bh should not be allowed to hunt same faction jedi. Though i know that bh are supposed to be considered the scum of the galaxy. Here is the logic behind this. As a bounty hunter you are hired usually by a person of influence in his or her faction to eliminate and enemy. So as the rebel alliance is friendly to light side (rebel jedi) a bounty hunter that is a rebel would not be hired to kill a member of the alliance. If they did it any way say as a rebel taking a mission from the empire then they would be found out and booted from the alliance or punished for war time crimes of treasen. Now the stance of the empire is tha all jedi must die.I could see imps being allowed to hunt same faction but that wouldnt be fair either. Perhaps then all bounty hunters must be neutral characters maintaining 0points of both rebel an imp faction in order to participate in the bh vs jedi content. It shouldnt be part of the choice to becoming a bounty hunter that you must quit you faction or never join a particular faction in the first place.

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HardwiredXMan wrote:

First of all, it's not just your profession....it's every person who pays to play this game profession whether they have a jedi or not.

Uh, no it's not. If you're not a jedi then that's not your profession.

So through a designed system, SOE is advocating grieving players

If that's really what you want to call it then so be it. Jedi are special. We get many things other professions do not. There has to be a price for it.

I simply don't want you taking up 30 minutes of my time when I get nothing out of it

If you get nothing out of it that's your problem and not SOE's. To me, a Pre Pub 9 jedi, I consider it an honor to be hunted by BH's and I consider every BH who comes after me to be just as much my content as I am his.

If I wanted to live by the jedi code, I cannot in this game because the game totally goes against the code for even lightside jedi. To only use the force in defense is an understatement, after you finish your template, all that's left other than the new content the devs give us is to defend yourself from Bh's......

Then ask for content rather than asking for content to be removed.

So grieving is grieving no matter how a game mechanic makes it legal.

Grieving is in the eye of the beholder. To me, you're grieving our profession through whining about the forced PvP in which you agreed to participate. Jedi should be great, but its power was dilluted by having so many jedi. There are so many jedi because people such as yourself got nearly everything which made us special removed. You couldn't handle the saber TEF, so now we have a million jedi on the servers. You couldn't handle the group TEF so they had to nerf us to make it easier on the BH's. You couldn't handle multiple BH's coming after you, so you people had to whine and get them to remove names from the terminals, and so they have to nerf us even more.

Stop crying about something you agreed to do. You don't see riflemen crying for carbine certifications. You don't see doctors crying for shipwright schematics. Because they know what their profession is. You should know that your profession, jedi, contains forced PvP and if you do not like it you need to find another game or another profession and stop getting us nerfed because you can't abide by an agreement you explicitly made when you chose to be a jedi.

please add meaningful discussion if your going to post, if your just going to call names and taunt people then refrain, thanks.

Message Edited by GarVa on 09-22-2005 11:32 AM