Jedi Archive
Thread: 220 Melee Accuracy vs 900 Melee Defense
im not for certain, but from what ive picked up on the posts, aura does not give 500 melee/ranged defense. it gives 500"defense" which operates on a back burner to the normal defense. i dont know for certain, but i believe this as i cant imagine the logic behind a move in a single row of defender that grants more melee/ranged defense than the whole defender profession does.
so to be safe, when i figure mods and stuff, i factor aura outside. even granted dimisihing returns, the differnce ive seen between aura on and off cant be 500, unless im just way off.
and concerning tapes, i belive the 25 cap is still in effect. this is because A- they said its in place still...but moreso i belive so because im willing to bet the 25 point cap is a blanket on all mods, cause the devs seem to love blanketing stuff, so if there was no cap a crafter could be a 20 point chef/ws/as etcotherwise.
i dont have any figures or links. this is all hypothisis based on what ive read from other stuff, hope it contributes
Edit: You can see all the formulas here.
MrDoppa wrote:Actually, i believe damages are composed of weapons and their min and max, armors, foods, be and tapes (when they work) and probably more weighted than any of these, COMBAT LEVELS. If a cl50 bh (yes they do exist) were to hit a cl80 jedi with Faura2 running, he'd prob hit just as often. But his damage would be modified.
Message Edited by Kivrin on 09-06-2005 04:06 PM
WookieOgre wrote:
Yeah but I believe it didn't add to the character sheet previously although you could be right. I just thought if the devs are gonna make it show up on the sheet they'd actually make it work.......maybe I put too much faith in them hehe.
Yeah, the ctrl-c screen just pulls the modifiers from your ctrl-s skill sheet....and the graphical bug where it shows more then the +25 cap to any skill is still in there, FROM LAUNCH lol. /cheer SOE
So, just because a skill displays in ctrl-c does not mean that it is working. The melee and ranged defense clothing does not work at all, not even maybe +25 is too little to notice, cause going from 0 to 25 melee defense on a level 10 toon should see a bit of difference when attacking lvl 8 mobs, and there is absolutely no difference. Same with melee/ranged foods and drinks. In every experiment we've run we have never seen any difference in PvE or PvP.
And it has been brought up that people are unsure of the cap of +25 to a skill, and if that is still in effect. I can assure you it is still in effect and includes CA's, AA's, and Bio-Engineered Clothing mods. Or any modded clothing that you looted. +25 is the cap. Total. Not per piece of clothing. TOTAL lol. This is the most widely misunderstood aspect of the CU. The devs stated they removed the caps from skills, NOT SKILL MODS. IE, pre CU melee and ranged defense capped out at +125, right? Now, post CU they can go much higher then that. That is what they meant by removing the caps. One very, very easy way to test this is with Healing Efficiency mods. We were lucky enough to have +40 in various Healing Efficiency AA's along with several pieces of +18 Healing Efficiency clothing. The benefits of that skill STOP at +25. You can wear +25 or +100, it doesn't matter. It stops improving at +25. Thats just the easiest skill to test, but there are others, and we've tested them, and they still cap at +25. Not trying to get loud, but I have this arguement it seems at least once a week with people since I'm a Bio-Engineer. Heh, I normally just ignore them and let them buy what they want to buy. 
Frogmorton D'Argent
MrDoppa wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
Force Aura gives +500 Defense = +500 Melee/+500 Ranged.
I_Zombi wrote:
force aura doesn't give you melee defense!Pikatta pie doesn't give you melee defense (and it certainly doesn't give you 150% of it...)! vegeparsine does work!!!
Pikatta Pie boost defense with an additional % decided by the pikatta, around 50%.
Vegaparsine is broken and give 0 bonus to both hitchance and damage reduction.
I trust MsNil knows what she is talking about so I will stand corrected. But I will restate that defense and accuracy do not affect chance to hit as pie and vegasparine do. Only the amount of damage taken.
She is right in that Pikatta pie gives a 50% buff to your base def stats (so a MD with 250 defenses would get a buff of 125)IF it still works like it did Pre-CURB. I have yet to see any documentation that says this is 100% truth in the current system though. Heck I doubt the devs even know there is something called Pikatta Pie rofl. But I think it still works as MsNil suggests it does.
This means a MD with aura+Pik Pie does have 900 defenses but the original poster whining about only 220 accuracy is just too funny. Both players can use food, there is food out there that buffs +220 accuracy (melee/ranged). Might not be as good in terms of time when compared to defensive foods (believe it lasts a min) but maybe the devs will one day address the issue.
OK here goes. I just did ten minute tests. (250 attacks) mainly to see how pikatta works with and without aura.
cl 79 vynock hits normally 81.75% of the time for 112 damage.
with improved aura it drops to 62.90% for 64 damage.
with pikatta it is 76.83% for 107 damage.
with both it is 57.90% for 58 damage.
I'll do tests with a player with high accuracy later.
Hit Miss calculations are very hard to calculate, over time, you will see that with more defense, you will get hit less, assuming attacker's accuracy stays the same. But an exacty formula is very hard to come by because there is a random number generator in the formula. Which means there can never be an exact formula. (i.e. with x Defense I will get hit y times, etc.)
Damage mitigation however, based on Accuracy vs Defense is very easy to calculate, since you have actual numbers in game to deal with. If you want to know these then see my damage calculator in my sig. I see some others have already posted links to it in this thread.
Aura and COB do not show up on the Ctrl-C screen,but they are there,The ingame damage numbers don't lie, COB and Aura add to melee/ranged Defense, it works fine.
Pikatta pie mitigates damage as if you added the number to melee/ranged defense, 100 Melee Defense + Pikatta 50 = 150 Melee defense. I have tested this and my next damage calculator update will include this. I don't know if it makes someone miss as if you had 50 more defense, that might be seperate. I only work on damage mitigation formulas.
I've noticed melee/ranged defense food seems to work fine for mitigating damage, And so does pikatta, but both together don't seem to stack correctly. I'm doing further testing to see what the problem is.
Message Edited by Staveeno on 09-08-2005 10:33 AM
Bear with me here.
Pikatta Pie gives a chance to hit reduction modifier. The most I've seen is 50%. This means that before the damage is calculated, it first has to be determined if the attacker even hits the target. This is an outright dodge. Miss means no hit and 0 damage. Same thing goes with block.
Force Aura does not appear to add directly to Melee or ranged defense. It appears to be more of a mitigation. Meaning that once the attacker hits, the damage number is modified (downward) to decrease the amount of damage taken. It may also be a chance to hit food. But at 500, I would imagine that there would be no chance to hit. I do have Faura2 and I still get hit quite as often. It just decreases the damage.
Diminished returns means that the higher the number goes does not necessarily equal the difference between the attacker and the defender. Meaning that the difference between 100 and 300 may only equal about 150 while the difference between 100 and 200 may actually equal 100. (This is an example not exact math).
So i don't think you get anywhere near a 900 on any stat in this game.
Actually, i believe damages are composed of weapons and their min and max, armors, foods, be and tapes (when they work) and probably more weighted than any of these, COMBAT LEVELS. If a cl50 bh (yes they do exist) were to hit a cl80 jedi with Faura2 running, he'd prob hit just as often. But his damage would be modified.
MsNiL wrote:
Force Aura gives +500 Defense = +500 Melee/+500 Ranged.
I_Zombi wrote:
force aura doesn't give you melee defense!Pikatta pie doesn't give you melee defense (and it certainly doesn't give you 150% of it...)! vegeparsine does work!!!
Pikatta Pie boost defense with an additional % decided by the pikatta, around 50%.
Vegaparsine is broken and give 0 bonus to both hitchance and damage reduction.
MasterSad wrote:
I gonna assume he meant the 100% you have BEFORE you eat the food added with the 50% you get for EATING the food. That must mean 150%. However, its not a direct additive to your melee/ranged defense number.
MsNiL wrote:
20 = Melee Defense IV
235 = Master Defender
500 = Force Aura
150% = Pikatta Pie
100 = Vegaparsine (Doesnt work atm)
64 = BE wear (Doesnt work atm)
I guess you ment that Pikatta Pie gives 50% not 150% (+50) as 150% would have +150 mod...?
MsNiL wrote:Force Aura gives +500 Defense = +500 Melee/+500 Ranged.
I_Zombi wrote:
force aura doesn't give you melee defense! Pikatta pie doesn't give you melee defense (and it certainly doesn't give you 150% of it...)! vegeparsine does work!!!
Pikatta Pie boost defense with an additional % decided by the pikatta, around 50%.Vegaparsine is broken and give 0 bonus to both hitchance and damage reduction.
Defense does NOT equal Melee/Ranged Defense
Defense = mitigated dmg and adds to the dodge modifier
Melee/Ranged Defense = adds to dodge
Therefor 230 melee defense +aura does NOT equal 730 melee/ranged Defense.
Which would also explain why people "testing" vagrespine hoping for mitigation bonuses are wrong.
I'm MDF/MLS/EN3xxx/HL2xxx and I can tell ya SWORD/TKM/DOC4xxx is one templet that i fear!! I have gone up against a couple of guys that hit me like they are hitin creatures!!
I'm told that this is not supposed to be!! well, i get hit 700 - 900 and Im MDF!!! rofl
with armor break 1k+
