Jedi Archive
Thread: 220 Melee Accuracy vs 900 Melee Defense
Sp4nky wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
Force Aura gives +500 Defense = +500 Melee/+500 Ranged.
I_Zombi wrote:
force aura doesn't give you melee defense! Pikatta pie doesn't give you melee defense (and it certainly doesn't give you 150% of it...)! vegeparsine does work!!!
Pikatta Pie boost defense with an additional % decided by the pikatta, around 50%.
Vegaparsine is broken and give 0 bonus to both hitchance and damage reduction.
Defense does NOT equal Melee/Ranged Defense
Defense = mitigated dmg and adds to the dodge modifier
Melee/Ranged Defense = adds to dodge
Therefor 230 melee defense +aura does NOT equal 730 melee/ranged Defense.
Which would also explain why people "testing" vagrespine hoping for mitigation bonuses are wrong.
All calculations that I have done with Aura as far as Damage Mitigation goes is that it mitigates damage exactly the same way melee/ranged Defense does, so not sure where you are getting your info.
And the people testing stuff are probably running into the ~+/-750 Defense vs Accuracy cap. Which would make some foods not show much of a difference.
For example
Attacker has 50 accuracy, target has 280 melee defense [ Defender (235) + Reflexes (20) + Bio Clothes (25) ] Then they turn on Aura +500. They now have 780 Defense. So Defense - Attacker Accuracy is 780-50 = 730. It will work fine here, but if you take Pikatta +50, Now we are at 780, but the cap is around 750, So +30 of the pikatta is gone to the wind. Now you take +100 Melee defense food. So now you are at 880 defense, Cap is ~750, So now 30 of the pikatta is lost, and the entire 100 from the food is lost.
Message Edited by Staveeno on 09-08-2005 10:45 AM
1. It is a second stat that is checked. So you have your force aura that has a +500 defense and you damage is calculated from that. The damage remianing from that is then checked against the 300+ melee or range defense you have. What remains is what you get hit for. When its applied not sure could be the second defense calculated.
2. Force aura is a additional +500 defense on top of your range and melee defense. So if you have +300 melee defense then you now have +800 defense. Now the devs with the cu made it so that you get diminishing returns with higher numbers. (i.e. you see 1 point of defense be less effective at 800 than it was at 300). This one makes more sense.
Out of those 2 I like #1. Reson being is that when I apply Force Aura against a mob that normally hits for say 110 kinetic damage it will then hit me for 67 damage. There is a significant drop in the damage being applied to me. If #2 was being applied since the devs like the diminishing return calculations now then I would not see as much of a reduction in damage.
Staveeno wrote:
Sp4nky wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
Force Aura gives +500 Defense = +500 Melee/+500 Ranged.
I_Zombi wrote:
force aura doesn't give you melee defense! Pikatta pie doesn't give you melee defense (and it certainly doesn't give you 150% of it...)! vegeparsine does work!!!
Pikatta Pie boost defense with an additional % decided by the pikatta, around 50%.Vegaparsine is broken and give 0 bonus to both hitchance and damage reduction.
Defense does NOT equal Melee/Ranged Defense
Defense = mitigated dmg and adds to the dodge modifier
Melee/Ranged Defense = adds to dodge
Therefor 230 melee defense +aura does NOT equal 730 melee/ranged Defense.
Which would also explain why people "testing" vagrespine hoping for mitigation bonuses are wrong.
All calculations that I have done with Aura as far as Damage Mitigation goes is that it mitigates damage exactly the same way melee/ranged Defense does, so not sure where you are getting your info.
And the people testing stuff are probably running into the ~+/-750 Defense vs Accuracy cap. Which would make some foods not show much of a difference.
For example
Attacker has 50 accuracy, target has 280 melee defense [ Defender (235) + Reflexes (20) + Bio Clothes (25) ] Then they turn on Aura +500. They now have 780 Defense. So Defense - Attacker Accuracy is 780-50 = 730. It will work fine here, but if you take Pikatta +50, Now we are at 780, but the cap is around 750, So +30 of the pikatta is gone to the wind. Now you take +100 Melee defense food. So now you are at 880 defense, Cap is ~750, So now 30 of the pikatta is lost, and the entire 100 from the food is lost.
Message Edited by Staveeno on 09-08-2005 10:45 AM
I've never seen melee/ranged defense mitigate damage whatsoever. I've seen "Defense" mitigate damage. Such as "Rifle defense" Or Center of being "Defense" nowhere does it say "Melee/Ranged Defense"
Profession "Defense" like rifle defense, does in fact mitigate damage. Testing this with a jedi though for example would not work considering any box that gives any significant amount of "melee defense" or "ranged defense" adds innate armor.
If you aren't noticing the vast increase in misses when you have aura on then you aren't paying attention, or are high or something. It's boldy and clearly obvious that you get hit less with Aura on.
Whether it is seperate from melee/ranged defense or not would be impossible to tell but it has the same net effect as a higher melee/ranged defense, so why bother trying to make a distinction?
Just FYI, this thread was necro'd; it's over 2 months old and the original information may have been correct for the time but since then a lot has changed.
I just think it's funny that no one noticed this and people are dogging on the original few posts comments...
alphahawk wrote:
I have read that Force aura is calculated 2 different ways.
1. It is a second stat that is checked. So you have your force aura that has a +500 defense and you damage is calculated from that. The damage remianing from that is then checked against the 300+ melee or range defense you have. What remains is what you get hit for. When its applied not sure could be the second defense calculated.
2. Force aura is a additional +500 defense on top of your range and melee defense. So if you have +300 melee defense then you now have +800 defense. Now the devs with the cu made it so that you get diminishing returns with higher numbers. (i.e. you see 1 point of defense be less effective at 800 than it was at 300). This one makes more sense.
Out of those 2 I like #1. Reson being is that when I apply Force Aura against a mob that normally hits for say 110 kinetic damage it will then hit me for 67 damage. There is a significant drop in the damage being applied to me. If #2 was being applied since the devs like the diminishing return calculations now then I would not see as much of a reduction in damage.
There are no dimished returns on the Mitigation that defense provides. Possibly on the Hit - Miss calculation but definately not on damage mitigation. The formula is:
(Attackers Max Damage - Attackers Min Damage) * (Attackers Accuracy - Target's Melee/Ranged/Weapon/COB/Aura/Food Defense) *.00066255
The number you get from here is what you add to your Base damage before specials. Base damage starts at:
(Weapon Max Damage - Weapon Min Damage) / 2
Then you take whatever number you get here and you make sure that it is greater than or equal to Minimum Weapon Damage and Less than or Equal to Weapon Max Damage. (i.e. MIN <= Base + (acc vs def calc) <= MAX) This is the only dimished return on this calculation. You can't do more damage than the Max of your weapon. (before specials, armor, etc.)
Then you take that number and multiply by pvp modifier (0.7), special attacksand then you can do your armor calculation.
In PVE there is also a CL Level Modifier, but you can look at my damage calc in my sig if you need more information. Also, Elemental damage is not mitigated by defense what so ever, not aura, not cob, no melee/ranged, nothing, Only armor can lower it's output.
Message Edited by Staveeno on 09-08-2005 05:18 PM
Don_T_Shoot wrote:
I'm not sure why people only attribute a damage mitigation to aura, if anything that is a smaller secondary effect due to higher defense vs acc it betstows.
If you aren't noticing the vast increase in misses when you have aura on then you aren't paying attention, or are high or something. It's boldy and clearly obvious that you get hit less with Aura on.
Whether it is seperate from melee/ranged defense or not would be impossible to tell but it has the same net effect as a higher melee/ranged defense, so why bother trying to make a distinction?
When you fight somthing like...necrosis...Which has a much higher accuracy then a normal mob...I still see a 40% or so dmg decrease.
XrioT wrote:
Just FYI, this thread was necro'd; it's over 2 months old and the original information may have been correct for the time but since then a lot has changed.
I just think it's funny that no one noticed this and people are dogging on the original few posts comments...
I've only responded to the recent posts, because apparently, people are still confused, The in game damage numbers don't lie, I can take two pvp players, get their accuracy, their defense, food, etc. and I can predict within 1 pt what damage they will do to each other. Yet people are still making up information it appears.