Jedi Archive

KammaRoca

I realize you think it will be easy to just "not use it" within 30m of a lair. As a finished template I dont really kill lairs anymore. Mobs like Krayt Dragons chase you although yes they do have a spawn point. Basically what AI has become is a "Ok everyone start running and when we get far enough away Ill use AI so it will run home". Yeah this MAY send the Krayt back to his spawn but the point is, If you dont get agro or cant hold agro, (Defenders only have one skill to get agro and it doesn't hold that well if others are outdamaging you) what good is a skill that drops agro from you? I might as well just be running away by myself if the Krayt isn't agroed to me because it won't mean anything.

Heres the other scenario, you start attacking something really hard CL90+. For one reason or another your group is having trouble and you want to use AI to escape.

A. On a mob that tough you may not make it 30m before turning AI on

B. If you use it to early you get snared and the mob may return for you when AI runs out, (you cant use it forever with a 1k force cost)

C. If you use it to early it will just agro the rest of your group of which many may not have the defense to take hits from something this high level.

Master Defenders need an ability to hold agro for long periods of time. AI should be a skill like I posted in my first post of this thread. A longer term agro hold that causes you to take way less damage but also deliver way less damage.

WE NEED A SKILL TO HOLD AGRO IF WE ARE THE ALPHA TANKING CLASS

Message Edited by Hulke on 10-11-2005 10:23 AM

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Straker_Atrella wrote:

If you didn't have xp loss, people would farm Jedi for money. If you took away the credit rewards for BH, people would have less incentive to run the missions and it would have effects on the economy.

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lol you are funny

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sas-quatch wrote:

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rickaf29 wrote:

AI was not meant for escape thats why the root was added. It was meant for a last stand for the Tank.... Remembe rthe whole circle diagram that we were moving toward during the CU? Mezzers,healers, tanks, ranged, nukers, melee etc... Having mobs loose aggro when AI goes into effect will remove Mdef from that tank role all together, that is unless they make the dominate mind more effective to counter the AI aggro break that may or may not come. Remember its still in testing nothing has been published. They need to loose this if Mdef's are to retain their tank role. I use it PVE until the healers can catch up on thier heals on me. The above posters are correct. This will kill other members in your group if the nerf stands.

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ROLES?? no one plays roles in this rpg...sad but true. ask anyone ..90% of ppl that are 4 months old or more. they will suggest a self sufficent template with healing and dmg al in one. you cal that roles?? no my slef i do not advocate this as i support the roles of the different professions. untill ppl are relying on o ne another and not being 8 self suffient players going for the same thing well....this game will contiue to be nerfed. lets just hope they dont take away our freedom with classes. but personally. everysoingle player having healing is f***ed up, how many MD's or MCM's do you see that are not bh's? non that i know of. How many ppl do you see taking all 3 healing professions...none that i know of...except MsNiL..whom i give props to for doing such a thing. no one really fills a role in this game we all follow FotM temps for FS grinding or stand alone tanking 5 ppl in pvp. BORING!! they need to enforce the roles somehow, how...i have no clue but just my feeling on this ROLE thing in this RPG where noone wants to really play a role(as far as combat goes)

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In the packet I recieved with this game when I bought it, it said to "think carefully about the skills you choose." It said that Han Solo was a master smuggler, but could weild a pistol when he couldn't ecape. It also said Boba Fett was "the greatest BH in the galaxy, but he is also able to heal and patch himself up after a tough bounty." This was a game not originally intended to be a "group" game. This game was never meant for play to be impossible without certain roles. It was never meant to be like City of Heroes for example, where you picked a class and could only get skills within that class and only progressed as that class and got better as that class, and if you didn't have a certain other class with you when you were fighting certain enemies, then you were screwed. I think one thing that is messing this game up is it is set up to emphasize individual skills, and instead of focusing on either group play or individual skill with each nerf, they are switched between. Like the CU made it impossible to solo things and VERY difficult to do things without some friends there in most situations, however this new AI nerf doesn't seem to emphasize a need for master defenders in group play anymore. SOE needs to decide if they want this game to be focused more around a team or around the individual. If they want teams making plays, or playmakers. If this game is going to be a group effort or if an individual can carry his friends on his back. They don't want to decide one way or the other because currently they have players from each side of liking individual emphasis, and others that like group emphasis. If they went one way or the other they would lose money from a whole group of players. By doing crap like this they retain both types of customers, and only lose a little of their player base (i.e. the ones afftected). It seems though as with the SL revamp and especially the CU they are trying to push it more towards a group game, but every now and then they do stuff like this which makes no sense.

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Rinviero wrote:

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Hulke wrote:

WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS WHY THE PROFESSION THAT IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THE MOST DAMAGE AND BE ABLE TO HOLDAGRO FOR THE GROUP WOULD HAVE A SKILL IN THE MASTER BOX THAT DROPS AGRO?

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AI is a last ditch attempt to stay alive, and escape... It is not a method to tank high end mobs...

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If its an escape method then they should take off the stupid snare.

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phantom542 wrote:

all they want to do is stop spingroups. they could care less what other effects it has. every prof should care about this since its the jedi that hooks em up with xp.this game is a game of grinding and everything they seem to be doing leads back to making that take forever.

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Can't say i ever need to use AI in a spin group, doubt thats the reason somehow.

How would this newchange act in PVP? I presume it will work the same way as it does now, has it only changed in PVE usage?

Message Edited by teamdoa on 10-12-2005 12:11 AM

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TrogdorrtheBurninator wrote:

i have a question about AI and this new "fix"

it's been said that AI will break agro, or cause agro to shift to a new group member. does this mean we will see a use for dominate mind?

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Who freaking cares about dominate mind?

Here are your options if dominate mind is "fixed":

• Use AI (1k force peruse)and spam Domiante Mind in order to hold aggro (action bar will be eventually gone due to spamming)


• Switch to defender/force armor dabbler and use the 1500 Heals + Infusion + attack significantly killing the mob quicker


• Use an alt w/ 8k+ resists based on purely healing, delay attacks, and defenses

Obviously no one will ever want to use the first one. Given that the devs said the highest mob in-game will be a level 90, then you shouldn't have a problem tanking especially w/out AI. I would rather much go in there w/ option number 2 rather than be a burden to the rest of the team?

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KammaRocca wrote:

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GlargTheKelfn wrote:

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Rinviero wrote:

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Hulke wrote:

WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS WHY THE PROFESSION THAT IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THE MOST DAMAGE AND BE ABLE TO HOLD AGRO FOR THE GROUP WOULD HAVE A SKILL IN THE MASTER BOX THAT DROPS AGRO?

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AI is a last ditch attempt to stay alive, and escape... It is not a method to tank high end mobs...

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since it has a snare, it's not for escape...

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Ahem. I repeat: Just don't use it within 30 m or so of the spawn point and it makes a great escape move. You just have to think ahead a bit so you can move far enough away from the lair that you don't re-draw aggro.

Just don't think of it as an ability to escape from something you're not already out of. It sounds weird, but you can kite a mob for 75 meters or so, use AI (assuming it works like feign death)and thenyou lose aggro (ie escape from the situation). If you're far enough away, you won't re-draw aggro.

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TheNarcis wrote:

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Skwall wrote:

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TrogdorrtheBurninator wrote:

i have a question about AI and this new "fix"

it's been said that AI will break agro, or cause agro to shift to a new group member. does this mean we will see a use for dominate mind?

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Who freaking cares about dominate mind?

Here are your options if dominate mind is "fixed":

• Use AI (1k force peruse)and spam Domiante Mind in order to hold aggro (action bar will be eventually gone due to spamming)


• Switch to defender/force armor dabbler and use the 1500 Heals + Infusion + attack significantly killing the mob quicker


• Use an alt w/ 8k+ resists based on purely healing, delay attacks, and defenses

Obviously no one will ever want to use the first one. Given that the devs said the highest mob in-game will be a level 90, then you shouldn't have a problem tanking especially w/out AI. I would rather much go in there w/ option number 2 rather than be a burden to the rest of the team?

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Um, the "new" level 90s are much more radical than they are on Live atm. It will not be a walk in the park.

AI is USELESS now. Snare the snaring snarers.

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Right level 90, which still shouldn't be to the point where you need someone to AI to tank it, especially considering that it cost 1k per use and would probably cause the AIer to purely spam dominate mind and get a couple shots here and there.

Idiotic change regardless. Take my option 2 for example...

You have better defenses than a master defender (not sure about AB) you'll probably have better heals and will be able to fully attack on the mob, keeping the aggro system as it is. Since the "Force Armor" defender could have the highest DPS he would still maintain aggro and could just need heals every now and then when he couldn't keep up. Not entirely bad IMO. I don;t even know why jedi support nerfs anyways.

Yeah, you say nerf defender now, wait until you see nerf force armor posts in the future....

every one seems to think that AI is the only point to defender.... granted it used to be awesome to AI back before snare or soon to be agro break. but people should look at it as "it was great while it lasted" every master skill in jedi is getting nerfed. total heal, soon comes the choke nerf and the cloak nerf... next is deverish and even FR3 is getting nerfed with the expansion. oh well i enjoy playing a jedi every once in a while... but what i like most about these nerfs is the loss of many of the idiots that think they're too 1337 for the rest of us. that's the best part of these nerfs IMO

• a means to escape, forcerun/forcespeed/root


• heals


• force power regeneration.

So, if you can subsititute Defender w/ Enhancer and gain a slew of new moves(including those thatreplenish force) then why not pick up an enhancer/defender hybrid if you get better defenses thana Master Defender?

AI is decent for PVP, just helps prevent ganks, but if you're to the point where you need to AI then you're basically screwed anyways... In PVE its great, but at 1k force cost a use, you needed to know when to use it.

I'm not just posting in regards to the last poster, but its flat out true. Ranged Defense does nothing for jedi, Valor is good (but at the cost of FC and isn't used that often) and Aura is great but easily dabbled.....

well not to mention the short timer on AI... the snare... AND the huge forcecost.. while it last.. and your target stays within saber distance.. yeah its great.. but not so great you WANT to use it... its just there for that last ditch effort.

what the hell needs to be nerfed?