Jedi Archive
Thread: Bounty Hunters are more powerful than post-CU Jedi can deal with.
Hasun wrote:
MBH: Can Solo Ancient Krayts easily, can solo the named 111 dant npcs/dark adepts/djm/djks/necrosis, nearly anything in the game is soloable thanks to the snares and kds.
I highly doubt that, but if you have a link to a video of someone doing it I may be ready to believe you, until then i'm claiming bull. There may be certain templates that can solo an ancient but I gaurantee you it will not include mbh.
MBH/MRM/CM4xxx
Snareand run around in circles, KD if needed (usually not). Not worth the effort to solo them though, takes too long.
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This is crap. Before I switched back to melee, I had that FOTM BH/MRM/CM 4000 and its not that great. You two hits major hits Crit and Head Hit. Sniper isnt that great because you usually only get one shot at it. The KD only really works at range and when most jedi see red the FR over to you and there goes you KD. You have a gimped snare and a crappy dizzy shot. As far as the CM 4 goes, it far over rated someone with +25 healing eff and medic XX4X can heal just as good and just as quick w/ the stims and Ruby included and the USE LESS MIND. All a jedi has to do is get you in a healing cycle. Your melee defense sucks so once you start healing its game over. The only jedi I killed with that was a Pady. All others pounded me into hamburger and bowed and went back to killing pickets (which put up a better fight then I did). Once again the jedi that get beat by that temp, dont know their own. To vet Jedi that temp is simply an annoying distraction. If you got millions to spend on armor and CAs........maybe. Then again a Jedi with CAs and a nice sabre will still own you.
Message Edited by Skurr on 09-25-2005 09:26 AM
Saereth wrote:
Let me post an observation here as well, I unlocked 1 week after cu, I've spent from then, until about 3 weeks ago comepletely on my jedi. Playing everyday, an average of 4 hours per day, I have tuned over 130 pealrs and 200+ crystals and I have spent hundreds of millions of credits on my jedi to buy pearls (in addition to krayt hunting every day) as well as buying Cas, leaving me with about400k in my bank and now that au'kuans are gone, no real way to make more money.I am full template, and even with a 2k health buff a skilled MCM/MBH can take me out, I just cant do enough damage to drain their mind BEFORE my force is gone, and once the force is gone, thats it.
Now, that being said, 3 weeks ago I decided to make a bounty hunter alt. After 3 weeks I am capped on ranged accuracy/speed mods in my Cas, I have 8200ishenergy recon,75% armorbreak sliced, a very nicelysliced and Puped LD-1 with an ADK, I geta droid, a nice healing eff undershirt, cm 4000/mrm/mbh, some nice bacta enhancers so now I heal better than my jedi, do more damage, do it from 64ms and its on...all in all, I spent about 30mil in equipment and thats including 9mil for the adk. and my bank account currently sits around 12miland thats after buying all the equipment and Cas... This is after THREE WEEKS OF WORK. My record stands at 38 kills, 4 deaths Me vs. Jedi. and many were full template.
now that just Jedi vs Bh... how about PVE?
MBH: Can Solo Ancient Krayts easily, can solo the named 111 dant npcs/dark adepts/djm/djks/necrosis, nearly anything in the game is soloable thanks to the snares and kds.
Jedi: Can solo the 111 npcs with synth steak and at least 55% force. Can solo Canyon and Juvy krayts... thats about it. ...Cant really think of anything else remarkable this char can do.
GCW:My bh can slice the term, go undercover and pick off people, outrange turrets to disable them...
Jedi can saber block some of the turretdamage and continually heal as he slows beats on one, then he's pretty much done, no use in the base at all other than to just sit around looking for overt defenders to show up and even then an undercover MRM/MBH wouldbe much more useful in those situations as an early warning etc.
So yeah There is your balance, drop jedi, make a MBH, welcome to the alpha class you have worked sohard toearn.
Every should have known this was coming... Jedi is way too easy to get and when they started removing the risks like pve death penalty the writing was on the wall. it will get worse very soon even the best jedi templates will be on a 1 to 1 standing with the elites.
Jedi will be rare and strong or weak and common we made our bed so now we have to lie in it or move on to another game ...
I dont think MBH are more powerful than Jedi.
I have both.
My Jedi certainly outclassesmy MBH in PvE, heck my ranger does too. Theycan each solo about everything in the game (non NPC for the Ranger of course). Only the Jediis twice as fastas the MBH and Ranger in the win. Ranger has a huge advantage vs Krayts (just an example) as their state effects stick frequently and consistently, while only KD works well with MBH.
Jedi outclasses MBH in PvP too. I can't tell you how many times I've been able to turn the tide by taking on a large portion of the incoming fire allowing the support roles to work effectively. Once food/drink/spice/buffs/aura/shield/valor are active, I'm pretty much untouchable (or so it seems). True PvP happens so quickly that force isn't too much an issue. For those 4-5 hour galactic battles, certainly you can find time to take a timeout to channel quickly.
The area of concern is solely a one on one PvP fight vs a BH that has optimal time to prepare for the Jedi, when the Jedi has but a few seconds to prepare for the BH. If you Jedi (especially full temps) are going to hang out and fight, then you have to be prepared for that fight 24/7. Don't eat, drink, spice in PvE... it's wasted. Save every bit of room in your stomach, your force, your holocron, your spice, etc for the fight against the MBH that has your mission. Truth is, if you are full temp, and have the right supplies (and the ability to call on each one as needed), you will win vs MBH temps.
Message Edited by RosaShyanne on 09-25-2005 09:43 AM
Message Edited by RosaShyanne on 09-25-2005 09:46 AM
Its prty easy to get a 851 dps rifle (with only mbh skill) and with cm this means atm mbh can be more powerfull than post cu jedi, however it should be this way. Dont choke, fully template jedi should be a fair match for fully templated bh, frs should eb the diferentiated not more additions to pre frs templates 
- kalam
KalamMerkor wrote:
Its prty easy to get a 851 dps rifle (with only mbh skill) and with cm this means atm mbh can be more powerfull than post cu jedi, however it should be this way. Dont choke, fully template jedi should be a fair match for fully templated bh, frs should eb the diferentiated not more additions to pre frs templates
- kalam
I only agree with this comment as everyone is a padawan. Once we start reaching Knight, Guardian, Master, the Jedi should find these fights much easier. Padawan should be on par with MBH temps, Knights/Guardians should be at minimum 1.5x powerful, and master at least 3x as powerful.
The answer to your prayer is with one simple word "HEALING"
BH have the ability to heal better then jedi does. Its that simple. Un-nerf jedi healing from 6 seconds to 2 or nerf doc/CM to all heals being on the same timer and add 6 second cooldown.
as a jedi and a MBH, i will honestly say that jedi are more powerful, but can be beaten by the underdog.
As a bh, i have to do a lot of things right to win. As a jedi, i have to do a lot of things wrong to lose.
I guess it come to damage out put potential. There are some jedi, depending on their template, that i hit for a good 150-300 damage per hit at most. THis is with a damage capped HLC. I get hit on average for about 800-1200 damage, most around the 800-100 range.
Some jedi, some post CU, non master saber Jedi, only hit me for about 500-600 damage on average, but that is still way more than i hit them for.
Seeing it from both sides, i will have to say that jedi is stronger, not so much that you can't beat one, but enough to be a challenge if they are done, a challenge most bh's don't live up to as much as it may seem
My jedi is a bh's nightmare. Pre cU with master Sabers, awesome defenses, a perfect saber, and force root. I tear through them all the time. A bh has to bring friends or catch me really offguard, i.e. overt and fighting imps or dueling another jedi and out of force and health, in order to beat me, for the most part.
As a bh, i am glad that every jedi isn't like this. When every jedi gets premium pearls is the day you see a lot of bh's quit bhing. Yeah, i get my fair share of wins, even full template wins, but i get my butt handed to me regularly as well. It is, in some sick way, balanced. There are some SPiderclan Elder jedi and some nightsister initiate/spellweaver/protector class jedi as well, so it's fun, not knowing which one you messed with until the heat is on. If every jedi was as powerful as my jedi, though, i probably would give up hunting.
As for Seareth being FOTM, I think it is MLS/Enhancer 3402/Defender 4040/Healer 4000, not sure what you consider FOTM and I am not FOTM and thanks to my lightsaber I have not died to a bounty hunter yet but many has been very challenging. My main does much better against the majority of the game and PvP.
Skurr wrote:
phant0mTA wrote:
every template has its positives and its negatives but 1 thing always holds true. Know how to use ur template, use the right foods and use strategy! i have had a ton of mbh mcm attack me and i beat them all or made them run and im not even mls. So before you come here and complain saying ohh they unbeatable i think u need to learn how to pvp and u need to learn your template.
felhammer
I fully agree here.
Myself as a TKM/MSwords/Mbrawler I have beat my fair share of Jedi. Yet I have got owned by a couple. One beat after 5 min with a pre-cu sabre.Another just yesterdaythat I believe was exploiting, killed me, fully fooded up and cranked over 750+ defensein addition to a psg in 4 FRIGGING HITS in like 5 secs. He claimed that He was just good. So i then and there challenged his buddy that was with him in Full Ris w/ power hammer and wentfor 30 min plus before he incapped me. I wear no armor nor have any attatchments. Just a sliceADKed Knucklers. So jedi have their tricks...they are not the gimped profession that the original poster is tying to make them out to be. Know your templete
Lol, skurr, that was me the other day and i'll swear before everyone that i wasn't using any exploit that i know about. Also, it wasn't 4 hits, it took me maybe 30 seconds but i had you armor broken, dizzy, and was alternating between body hits and power hits with a good pre-cu saber. I also don't generally have trouble with bounty hunters of any breed, never had one that i haven't killed.
I will straighten this out for you, a Jedi that does not have a ~700 damage lightsaber or does not have master force wielder in their template will not be able to defeat a well equipped BH/MCM period. The Jedi will not be able to inflict enough damage to the bounty hunter, defender will not help much from the debuffs and dots, the Jedi will run out of mind or force before the bounty hunter runs out of mind from heals which only happens if a Jedi with a lightsaber of over 700 damage. As for me it is very easy to force a BH/CM into a constant healing loop very quickly because of my lightsaber, not because of my template but I did have master force wielder and choke sped that up. The only other way a Jedi can handle a BH/CM without a pre CURB lightsaber is Stasis and advanced forcerun.
Hasun wrote:
Your FOTM jedi template arn't you, no wonder you get owned by the Mcm/mbh template. If you hadn't have been a sheep and followed the rest of the jedi on your server you may have stumbled on the jedi template that can destroy a Mcm/mbh in minutes, without the use of a pre cu saber as well.
Hasun wrote:
Saereth wrote:
Let me post an observation here as well, I unlocked 1 week after cu, I've spent from then, until about 3 weeks ago comepletely on my jedi. Playing everyday, an average of 4 hours per day, I have tuned over 130 pealrs and 200+ crystals and I have spent hundreds of millions of credits on my jedi to buy pearls (in addition to krayt hunting every day) as well as buying Cas, leaving me with about400k in my bank and now that au'kuans are gone, no real way to make more money.I am full template, and even with a 2k health buff a skilled MCM/MBH can take me out, I just cant do enough damage to drain their mind BEFORE my force is gone, and once the force is gone, thats it.
Your FOTM jedi template arn't you, no wonder you get owned by the Mcm/mbh template. If you hadn't have been a sheep and followed the rest of the jedi on your server you may have stumbled on the jedi template that can destroy a Mcm/mbh in minutes, without the use of a pre cu saber as well.
Now, that being said, 3 weeks ago I decided to make a bounty hunter alt. After 3 weeks I am capped on ranged accuracy/speed mods in my Cas, I have 8200ishenergy recon,75% armorbreak sliced, a very nicelysliced and Puped LD-1 with an ADK, I geta droid, a nice healing eff undershirt, cm 4000/mrm/mbh, some nice bacta enhancers so now I heal better than my jedi, do more damage, do it from 64ms and its on...all in all, I spent about 30mil in equipment and thats including 9mil for the adk. and my bank account currently sits around 12miland thats after buying all the equipment and Cas... This is after THREE WEEKS OF WORK. My record stands at 38 kills, 4 deaths Me vs. Jedi. and many were full template.
Can jedi not use ca's?, can jedi not walk into the dwb cloaked and steal all the loot out of the chests?, how come its only jedi players that even attempt to try the DWB nowadays?, if jedi is gimped why does 90% of people have one?
now that just Jedi vs Bh... how about PVE?
MBH: Can Solo Ancient Krayts easily, can solo the named 111 dant npcs/dark adepts/djm/djks/necrosis, nearly anything in the game is soloable thanks to the snares and kds.
I highly doubt that, but if you have a link to a video of someone doing it I may be ready to believe you, until then i'm claiming bull. There may be certain templates that can solo an ancient but I gaurantee you it will not include mbh. My MBH solo's all krayts
Jedi: Can solo the 111 npcs with synth steak and at least 55% force. Can solo Canyon and Juvy krayts... thats about it. ...Cant really think of anything else remarkable this char can do.
Oh so jedi can solo stuff as well, I know of plenty of jedi on my server that can solo all krayts, dark jedi knights etc, maybe you need to rethink you template or just admit you plain suck. The problem was that most people went FOTM (defender etc) and the has caused a nurf to Healer and make templates that don't have defender in them very hard going on the healing front, due to the damage taken!
GCW:My bh can slice the term, go undercover and pick off people, outrange turrets to disable them...
Jedi can saber block some of the turretdamage and continually heal as he slows beats on one, then he's pretty much done, no use in the base at all other than to just sit around looking for overt defenders to show up and even then an undercover MRM/MBH wouldbe much more useful in those situations as an early warning etc.
Outranging turrets is an oversight from the devs, what would you like them to do, increase saber throw to 100m or actually fix the problem and extend the range the turrets can fire?. There are many mbh templates that all do wsonderful things each one effective against another jedi template.
You know the game stone, paper, scissors, well that is what the CU is, every template be it jedi or normal has an anti-template.
So yeah There is your balance, drop jedi, make a MBH, welcome to the alpha class you have worked sohard toearn.
Although you have made one or two good points, jedi are far from gimped, if they were no one would be a jedi and yet I can stand in Theed on Corbantis and see 10 jedi for every 1 normal most evenings.
Message Edited by Hasun on 09-25-2005 04:11 PM