Jedi Archive

Message Edited by iskareot on 09-07-2005 10:28 AM

JEDI:

- Do you beleive the BH system currently is effectively stopping the growth of jedi (as intended) ? Not as effective as they should be

- If XP loss was removed would you feel as much "tension" when losing to a BH ? It would marginalize the role of the Bounty Hunter and cause more hatred between the two professions.

- If this occured do you beleive the grind would now be "too easy", "just right", or still "too hard" ? Too easy...of course the current system is too easy. 3 months from padawan to full template is just not long enough.

- Does XP loss now (or even when grinding) make you "show off" less ? I don't show off to begin with, but during my grind, I avoided gaining vis until it was unavoidable.

BOUNTY HUNTER:

- What is the main motivation for hunting player jedi (please be honest) ? Challenge, credits, and creating a real risk to the jedi grinder. I also feel that it was a good training experience for them.

- Do you beleive its fair that jedi are the only profession in the game that loses something upon (BH) death ? Yes. In fact, I want there to be a cloning xp loss aswell. The new system has made gaining a full template so easy, I could do it in my sleep...or even afk.

- If they took away jedi XP loss would you hunt as many jedi as you do now ? No. What would be the point? I can make more credits from loots.

- If XP loss remains do you beleive BHs should be punished for losses or consecutive losses ? We are, with armor being degraded, the cost of droids, meds, buffs, etc. For hunting jedi, it is a losing proposition. I earn more creds against npc's and get loots worth more than a player bounty. Add, on top of that, that 90% of my hunts end with me being defeated, the gain isn't there. Since I face full templates almost every time, even the xp loss they would suffer would be pointless. Unfinished templates need to be hunted more often, and they need to re-establish 2 BH teams.

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Fugitron wrote:

There has been alot of comments latelyabout completely removing XP loss from the BH system. This thread is to discuss the "possibility" and PROs and CONs if this did occur. Pleasetry to keep flaming down and to stay on-topic. BHs are welcome to give constructive input.

Some following questions to consider when discussing:

JEDI:

- Do you beleive the BH system currently is effectively stopping the growth of jedi (as intended) ?

- If XP loss was removed would you feel as much "tension" when losing to a BH ?

- If this occured do you beleive the grind would now be "too easy", "just right", or still "too hard" ?

- Does XP loss now (or even when grinding) make you "show off" less ?

BOUNTY HUNTER:

- What is the main motivation for hunting player jedi (please be honest) ?

- Do you beleive its fair that jedi are the only profession in the game that loses something upon (BH) death ?

- If they took away jedi XP loss would you hunt as many jedi as you do now ?

- If XP loss remains do you beleive BHs should be punished for losses or consecutive losses ?

Remember PLEASE try to stay on task and try not to flame eachother - someone will disagree with you - agree to disagree. Maybe if we have enough good input we might be stickied (at least for a bit)

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My god they take exp loss away from PVE and PVP deaths.... and only give it to BH deaths.... not to mention cut down names on terms so makes it fairer and stops specific Jedi targetting. And now you want no exp loss at all?

Sorry but as a Jedi andBounty Hunter <Pre and Post CU>

No... there is no discussion here we have been given enough breaks as it is and we get a fairly easy time of it now I remember killing a jedi and he lost the equivalent of a master skill on his death.... cant tell you how bad that made me feel. Exp loss is an easy thing to avoid and get out of... skill loss is a major destruction of another players toon.

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iskareot wrote:

Ok, then again another "Fine"...

This is so wide open...

a Few things, Jedi is and was designed based on some sort of "risk" system........

Right now (the only real way -- and mind you not to take away what the Devs said to the BHs back in beta about hunting Players one day , has stuck in there.

JEDI IS BASED ON PvP ... Jedi was not a class made around crafting, it was not made around selling, it was not made around entertaining.

It was made around combat.... period.

Now, if you think otherwise then you need to go to a fan fest and tell the Devs that to thier face.. so far they have proven time and time again it is a Combat class... OK so we got that out of the way.. its a FACT , we all know it.

Now then, with Jedi they needed to have some sort of System in place to keep us in check due to the "once" given power, they used the player bounites... sure it sucked.. I hated it more then you did trust me... Pre -Village crap it was hard core nasty and hard... You die you lose alot and I mean ALOT, you craft wrong you lost a SABER.. the whole thing... you had Tefs and all the bugs you could imagine... there was GREAT RISK AND GREATER REWARD as far as power as you went up the trees.

Now it comes down to this.... (we are just a tad better or stronger then MOST normal Elite profs....) Just a tad... SO with that said this is the last of the System Checks they held onto due to it's balance with BH's having players as Content at Master.

Now, I know some may say they HATE FORCED PVP , but like JemyM (old poster on this topic) tried and was shot down more times then you have posted.. He realized that Jedi IN THIS GAME IS A COMBAT PROFESSION no matter what you may see or hear... (FOR NOW) we are not entertainers yet... soon maybe BUT NOT YET.

Risk vs Reward...

BH death , XP loss is the last of the great once risky Jedi prof... its all we have left as far as the balance to the risk vs reward system... To keep that one tad edge I think they are keeping it in the game and Im glad... It is all we have left to show for our advancement in the game now.

You want to remove our Last tiny bit of "Risk" ... and then you should know not to long after that we will lose the tiny , tiny bit of advantage we have as Jedi.

I have watched other players rip apart this profession since day one, I have been in all the revamps or "changes" of Jedi... I have seen and lost soooooo much due to other player ideas and cries... I DO NOT think that BH death XP is at all a Hardship that is now game breaking or hard for that matter. Jedi was not made for the day to day crafter or the day to day entertainer... NOW, they have at least made it so that those people can obtain a Jedi... so good, great... BUT now.. those are the same people that cry "I cant do this PvP thing"... But then My question is why are you a freaking Jedi???? Did you not read the forums?? You know what Jedi is??

Bottom Line... Jedi is or was based on Risk... sure we have lost 99.9% and the only thing left is XP loss based on Death from a BH but trust me when I say you should be happy with that and move on.... If you don't like PvP then DO NOT GET VISIBILITY and stay hidden YOU HAVE THAT OPTION and you HAVE THAT CHOICE... But with that also comes the penalty for that choice.

You can't finish your Jedi in a month if you don't group we all know that now... so it comes down to one word and I use it well and I stick by it more so then you can imagine... and actully have used it over and over again for all people in the game, it makes more sense then almost any word in the game and it's almost to easy to think of. You know what Jedi is, You know what it entitles, You know what is expected and you knew that when you were in that village.... so with that said I say this.....

CHOICE...... it comes down to that period.

Message Edited by iskareot on 09-07-2005 10:28 AM

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Fugitron wrote:

BOUNTY HUNTER:

- What is the main motivation for hunting player jedi (please be honest) ?

Thrill of the hunt/Getting the best possible fight because the Jedi has a reasonto live.

- Do you beleive its fair that jedi are the only profession in the game that loses something upon (BH) death ?

Absolutely. From the moment Jedi were announced it was touted as the ultimate challenge and all types of barriers towards advancement were introduced to counter the complaintthat they were an alpha class. Most of these barriers were removed over time (permadeath, xp loss on non-BH death, low xprate gain)and if the final barrier of BH death xp loss is removed then Jedi has absolutely zero risk associated with it. If that happens then you might as well make Jedi a selectable profession for newbiesalong with artisan and scout.

- If they took away jedi XP loss would you hunt as many jedi as you do now ?

Probably not. The experience isadrenaline pumping but only because the Jedi really doesn't want to die. If Jedi have nothing to lose they have no reason to fight except pride or PvP rating and many wouldprobably just see it as a way to get a free trip back to the nearest cloning center.

- If XP loss remains do you beleive BHs should be punished for losses or consecutive losses ?

Perhaps, but thisassumes MBH's and fully templated Jedi are somehow balanced with each other which is absolutely not the case. Most MBH's die numerous times for every successful kill. If this was implemented fully templated Jedi would have to be watered down or MBH's would have to be beefed up and I doubt either measure would be desirable. In addition, wouldn't this just increase the hatred? Normal players would see it as yet another victory for Jedi and MBH's would begin pulling out every stop to ensure victory.

If anything I think if you fail a mission you should not be able to take another mission on that particular Jedi for some period of time. Another alternative might be to introducehigher level content that doesn't yet exist such as prestige points that can be used for elite gear or items which can be put at risk for a failed mission.

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Jacella wrote:

JEDI:

- Do you beleive the BH system currently is effectively stopping the growth of jedi (as intended) ? Not as effective as they should be

- If XP loss was removed would you feel as much "tension" when losing to a BH ? It would marginalize the role of the Bounty Hunter and cause more hatred between the two professions.

- If this occured do you beleive the grind would now be "too easy", "just right", or still "too hard" ? Too easy...of course the current system is too easy. 3 months from padawan to full template is just not long enough.

- Does XP loss now (or even when grinding) make you "show off" less ? I don't show off to begin with, but during my grind, I avoided gaining vis until it was unavoidable.

BOUNTY HUNTER:

- What is the main motivation for hunting player jedi (please be honest) ? Challenge, credits, and creating a real risk to the jedi grinder. I also feel that it was a good training experience for them.

- Do you beleive its fair that jedi are the only profession in the game that loses something upon (BH) death ? Yes. In fact, I want there to be a cloning xp loss aswell. The new system has made gaining a full template so easy, I could do it in my sleep...or even afk.

- If they took away jedi XP loss would you hunt as many jedi as you do now ? No. What would be the point? I can make more credits from loots.

- If XP loss remains do you beleive BHs should be punished for losses or consecutive losses ? We are, with armor being degraded, the cost of droids, meds, buffs, etc. For hunting jedi, it is a losing proposition. I earn more creds against npc's and get loots worth more than a player bounty. Add, on top of that, that 90% of my hunts end with me being defeated, the gain isn't there. Since I face full templates almost every time, even the xp loss they would suffer would be pointless. Unfinished templates need to be hunted more often, and they need to re-establish 2 BH teams.

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Spoken like a true BH..lol so many things in this to rip apart, I'm not going to waste my time. 2 BH teams lol , Ok ILL TAKE THAT, oops wait I also want my reward back then of Power... so don't forget that..lol

Risk vs Reward... (You guys wanted that Power aka Reward out.. so don't forget that...)... Less Risk, Balance remember?

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Dakrek wrote:

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BladeOConner wrote:
i Beleive xp loss should be there but instead of going negative loose till 0 then maybe have to loose skills no negative at all you choose your loss of skill

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TBH I'd rather have negative xp than loose all my skills. Say Jedi X was a fullly templated Jedi. X gets loads of vis by engaging in the higher end quests and looking for the higher end loot where there are NPCs (and mostly by fighting NPCs). BHs come after X and he dies. Scenario 1 (xp loss) After tonnes of dying he goes to a max of -10mill xp. Well at least he has a full template to either grind out of the hole/just ignore it because he doesnt need the xp anyway (providing he doesn't want to switch templates.) Scenario 2 however (skill loss). Ater dying over and over (just as he did in the first scenario) he end up with CL 55, Nov Lightsaber and all of his beloved specials are gone (for example). He is then forced to regrind his template, rather than just ignore the negative xp and skip of into the sunset.

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Fugitron wrote:

If you think its pointless then don't post here, you do no one any good by flaming.

Secondly, yes Jedi is a risk filled profession its the only profession that forces you to PvP and get killed. Getting killed is enough of "risk" in my opinion. The game has been around long enough for the early "casual gamers" tofinally almost get done with their jedi. People need to realize that this is a GAME, not a way of life. If you spend 4 hours a day gaming everyday AND have a job you basically sacrifice all of your personal RL time. I don't think anyone wants to spend a friday night grinding xp right after work am I right?

BTW, it was never stated that Bounty Hunting was part of a jedi hardship in the manual. Also, I wouldn't mind being hunted for xp lossif it took a group of six to take me down like the old days, with as powerful as jedi are currently (which depending on template can easily get taken out by a single BH) xp is a waste and just aggrevates more people. IMO, you would have alot less angry jedi if this were removed... and that leads to less nerf calling and flaming.

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Forced PVP??? No one forced you to grind out jedi...jedi are pvp. It's never forced, but by having a jedi and logging into it, you accept the risks involved with that position.

It was never stated....you got to be kidding! It has been a part of jedi since before you bought the game! You knew that BH's were going to hunt you when you unlocked it, if you didn't, then you wouldn't be smart enough to read the instructions on the box.

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Dakrek wrote:

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BladeOConner wrote:
i Beleive xp loss should be there but instead of going negative loose till 0 then maybe have to loose skills no negative at all you choose your loss of skill

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TBH I'd rather have negative xp than loose all my skills. Say Jedi X was a fullly templated Jedi. X gets loads of vis by engaging in the higher end quests and looking for the higher end loot where there are NPCs (and mostly by fighting NPCs). BHs come after X and he dies. Scenario 1 (xp loss) After tonnes of dying he goes to a max of -10mill xp. Well at least he has a full template to either grind out of the hole/just ignore it because he doesnt need the xp anyway (providing he doesn't want to switch templates.) Scenario 2 however (skill loss). Ater dying over and over (just as he did in the first scenario) he end up with CL 55, Nov Lightsaber and all of his beloved specials are gone (for example). He is then forced to regrind his template, rather than just ignore the negative xp and skip of into the sunset.

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