Jedi Archive
Thread: Fixing the FRS
Vcardossk
Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:49 pm
#27
Bawarr wrote:The light-dark tiers are what ive always envisioned the FRS to be, we shouldnt really be involved with the GCW at all. Hiding in the enclaves and infighting between sith and jedi is how it should be. The alliance didnt send a /tell to obi-wan to come and pwn some imperials when they got attacked now did they
Actually they did, Leia was going to ask Ben to come help them. lol /pwned.
nakedandfearless
Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:06 pm
#28
Small Light/Dark Quest from shrines to maintain daily FRS. That would be nice. Doesn't have to be used to bank FRS, just maintain.
Something simple like Light Jedi go save this lady. Dark Jedi go kill this Padawan (NPC). Go kill sith on Dath, Investigate temple on Dant, Deliver pizza to Vader.....you get the idea. Make them so you can only do them alone maybe (or with your apprentice if that ever gets in the game).
Sudasinio
Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:19 pm
#29
Great that all the ideas that people had were gathered and put into one post. Hopefully the DEVs will look into something like this. I personally would like to see the FRS removed temporarily until some fixes are made. I also think instead of adding certain skills to the FRS they should add skill points. Or something along that line. It would be great if you could "truly" be a master and have all the trees mastered.
I also think there should be extra things added to not just the FRS but the actual force progression tree. It would be cool at Knight in the force progression tree that you get the option to harvest your own color crystal and customize it. It would make everyones saber unique. Like how you can pick the color on armors and things. At knight you get a select amount and at guardian you get more and master you get as many as possible. It would add uniqueness and also it could be added to the interaction between master/padawan. Such as the master could craft a special color crystal for the padawan to use. Everytime he uses it he could be rewarded a percentage of whatever xp he got to FRS xp.
I would also like to add that you mentioned that the FRS mods arent working for the enhance resist line in enhancer. They do work for the light side mods. At rank VII I definately noticed a difference in my skill mods with poison resist and absorb. Plenty of things work in the FRS but really only benefit the enhance tree. While I am thinking of this aswell why not make regain conciousness not have a delay of 60 seconds. If you are using the force to rez yourself and cost so much force you shouldnt have a delay or it should be like FOW.
Anyways great ideas hope they go through and the DEVs take some time after the Combat Revamp patch and fix the FRS or disable it temporarily.
One more thing I forgot their should be a Dark Jedi Guardian and Dark Jedi Master title. When I see Jedi Master I see a light jedi not a Dark Jedi. I know the FRS titles are suppose to make up for the original ones that were lost, but its not that hard to re-add those 2 titles. Just my opinion...
Message Edited by Sudasinio on 02-11-2005 09:26 PM
Message Edited by Sudasinio on 02-11-2005 09:29 PM
KyleKnox
Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:22 pm
#30
Good ideas SG, and I realize you have to use a carrot approach with the devs, but lets be honest and speak the truth...the FRS is crap. It is fundamanetally flawed:
1) there ARE NO ENCLAVES or organized groups of jedi. The empire crushed them. And any NEW ones would be sensed AND CRUSHED.
2)having maintenance fees, which penalize players for not being married to SWG is HEINOUS.
3) EVERY mechanic in the FRS, as designed and implemented, is terrible. It would be hard to desing a system that promoted more bad behaviour among players.
Here is what needs to be done: The FRS needs to be completely removed. Its a terd. We all know it. SOE should then focus on TWO THINGS that would be in keeping with this timeline...master/padawan relationships AND Blue Glowies - as alternatives to xp loss/death penalty and as a means for quests and content and training from dead jedi masters or Sith killed by the empire or otherwise perished. THe enclaves should remain what they are today...forgotten ruins that are a testament to SOE's poor, pathetic game design from patchnerf 9.
The jedi religion has largely been lost...imagine the endless content from uncovering pieces of it in lost archives scattered throughout the galaxy, and imagine what cool items could be gained after long, HARD, game play/questing.
Jedi is frankly the most fascinating, interesting part of the star wars saga, and yet much to their shame, SOE has reduced it to a mass creature slaughter followed by mass murder/griefing and NOW extortion of other players. This is entirely unacceptable. USE THE LICENSE and MAKE SOMETHING that is worthy of it.
Jedi is this games only hero class, EVERYTHING about it should drip of accomplishment.Alll the FRS does is reward cheap game play/exploitation, b/c there is NO legitimate way to level in it to any extent. the FRS REWARDS bad behaviour. Its mind boggling. And SOE's response..."working as intended". How terrible, how tragic, how very very SOE.
The community did not want jedi to be made the center of PvP or the GCW...the FRS did both of those things, and SCREWED EVERY PLAYER in this game in the process.
Message Edited by KyleKnox on 02-11-2005 09:54 PM
ViperOSU
Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:27 pm
#31
KyleKnox wrote:
...the FRS is....... It is fundamentally flawed
QFE
And this has become my new favorite way to approach the FRS, beacuse it is the simple truth.
And again, good idea here SG!!
Message Edited by ViperOSU on 02-11-2005 11:28 PM
777jb777
Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:12 pm
#32
SonGouki wrote:
Thanks guys.
Pleasebe aware though, posting it in there does not necessarily mean that it will happen, I'm merely making suggestions...
I support your great ideas. However I would like to point out a few things regarding the methods used to discourage roof-top fight-clubbing (100 length kill list, minimum 3 days per individual).
Those ideas are commendable but will *not* solve the core problem. If the delay is a mandatory 3 days, then the exploiters will just assemble every 3 days, line up their targets and kill them. With a system that requires BH to have a mission, but increases the FRS xp gain from killing Jedi, the fight club scene will turn more towards jedi-farming, from bh farming.
The solution, which I've only seen proposed once in an excellent post by a fellow whose name I forget, is *differential frs xp reward ratios*. That means that the ratio of FRS xp gained changes based upon the location the kill takes place. Currently, the 'winner' of a fight gains more xp than the 'loser' loses, and THAT is the root cause of this issue.
Fighting in PA halls (or any player structure), or in cities, should result in an *even* ratio of points gained/lost. THAT would solve the problem. While people could still arrange fightclubs, they would be vulnerable to attacks by opposing faction players at any time, being out in the wilderness.
In conjunction with your suggestions, I believe a differential location-based ratio would fix things up nicely.
Garabaldi
Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:20 pm
#33
Thank you for putting the Master/Padawan stuff in there, SonG. That's a major problem a lot of people overlook. The Jedi grind is a single player experience currently, and a very poor one at that.
Loxorsim
Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:12 am
#35
Great suggestions SonG.
I like some most all of your suggestions. Kudos to you for taking your time to put this all together. It is very well thought out and put together.
Personally, I walk to fence on the whole FRS issue in general. If it was taken away, I'd shed no tears. If it was replaced with a better system that would be great.
I really like the idea of the Master-Padawan relationship. That's always been a core part of being a Jedi in my opinion. As so many of us have grinded our way through our template not able to play with friends or guildmates, this would be a great step forward in this game being "Star Wars."
Ethically, the whole bh farming issue is wrong in my book. I know quite a few people agree with me on this. Additionally, some people see no problem with it, and SOE has even stated its "working as intended." So are we all suppose to "cheat" to get ahead in the game? I feel this issue needs to be adressed in some way.
If this, or something similar goes through to "revamp" the FRS, that will be great. SOE needs to do something, as it is currently not a feasible system.
Again, great suggestions all the way around. I really hope something becomes of it. Thanks again for the hard work.
-Loxorsim Oonafi
GTB High Council
Galatorbria, Rori - Valcyn
Bounty-1
Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:55 am
#37
Here's an idea for allowing Jedi to track each other. I'm sure it will cause several people to complain but it's so simple it should be able to be implimented without much trouble.
SImply give jedi knights the Investigation line from bounty hunter. Just take the droid and mission skill mods and make 5 boxes for jedi equivilant to investigation one throuh master bh. Make the boxes cost no skillpoints and only available at knight.
Now jedi can find each other and advance. Isn't this basicly what Darth Maul did in episode 1
Fondler
Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:19 am
#38
SonGouki -
Great Ideas, though I'm not sure how possible the proposed factioning system is.
darkhawk1138 -
I'm sorry to see that you feel that it is necessary to discount a player's explination of their situation without any qualification for your statements.
Let me explain it to you in this manner - "Fight Clubs" are a symptom of a messed up FRS System. If you go to the doctor with a bacterial infection of the upper respiratory system, the doctor may prescribe you some cold medicine to make you feel better, but that does not deal with the infection itself as an anti-biotic would.
What you need to understand is that, in this instance, the FRS system is hurting Jedi, and the way in which they are dealing with it is percieved to be hurting everyone else. This percieved impact is what is causing the severe reaction of some members of the community. However, this is only a percieved impact because it is somehow based on the assumption that some unfair or unintended advantage is being bestowed upon individuals. This is not however the case, as players are using the means intentionally made available to them to achieve an option which was intentionally presented to them. If the Devs never intended for their to be Jedi Masters and Council Members in the game, these positions and mechanics would not have been included in the game.
What many people are asking for, a treatment of the symptom - cracking down on the fight clubs - would only serve to hurt the players that have jedi, without providing a real benefit to the community. This is because 1) Jedi that choose not to participate are subsequently denied benefits they would have gained by proxy, and 2) Jedi that do participate are being punished for using the fastest legitimate means to achieve their objective of reaching higher level content.
Certainly some people find the leveling experience to be the fun part... but sometimes we have to step out of the bounds of our own mindset, and accept that not everyone shares our view of what is enjoyable. We are all mingling in a limitlessly diverse environment here, and it should be expected that our views will differ. In order to make the most of our gaming experience, it is vital that we all open up to the situations of others.
In closing, I am not a Jedi, but many of my friends are. Some of my friends, both Jedi and non-Jedi, are vehmently opposed to "Fight Clubs" while the others are the originators of them (I think... was Lowca the first?). I have seen both sides of the argument, and I think that in the end, both have their points. I think that this post presents some great ideas for the treatment of the "disease" rather than for the symptom, and we should focus not on the conflict between us, but the resolution ahead of us.
Great Ideas, though I'm not sure how possible the proposed factioning system is.
darkhawk1138 -
I'm sorry to see that you feel that it is necessary to discount a player's explination of their situation without any qualification for your statements.
Let me explain it to you in this manner - "Fight Clubs" are a symptom of a messed up FRS System. If you go to the doctor with a bacterial infection of the upper respiratory system, the doctor may prescribe you some cold medicine to make you feel better, but that does not deal with the infection itself as an anti-biotic would.
What you need to understand is that, in this instance, the FRS system is hurting Jedi, and the way in which they are dealing with it is percieved to be hurting everyone else. This percieved impact is what is causing the severe reaction of some members of the community. However, this is only a percieved impact because it is somehow based on the assumption that some unfair or unintended advantage is being bestowed upon individuals. This is not however the case, as players are using the means intentionally made available to them to achieve an option which was intentionally presented to them. If the Devs never intended for their to be Jedi Masters and Council Members in the game, these positions and mechanics would not have been included in the game.
What many people are asking for, a treatment of the symptom - cracking down on the fight clubs - would only serve to hurt the players that have jedi, without providing a real benefit to the community. This is because 1) Jedi that choose not to participate are subsequently denied benefits they would have gained by proxy, and 2) Jedi that do participate are being punished for using the fastest legitimate means to achieve their objective of reaching higher level content.
Certainly some people find the leveling experience to be the fun part... but sometimes we have to step out of the bounds of our own mindset, and accept that not everyone shares our view of what is enjoyable. We are all mingling in a limitlessly diverse environment here, and it should be expected that our views will differ. In order to make the most of our gaming experience, it is vital that we all open up to the situations of others.
In closing, I am not a Jedi, but many of my friends are. Some of my friends, both Jedi and non-Jedi, are vehmently opposed to "Fight Clubs" while the others are the originators of them (I think... was Lowca the first?). I have seen both sides of the argument, and I think that in the end, both have their points. I think that this post presents some great ideas for the treatment of the "disease" rather than for the symptom, and we should focus not on the conflict between us, but the resolution ahead of us.
HEADDY
Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:44 am
#39
If anyone ever reads this far down here are a few of my concerns:
- The imbalance between the light and dark side force mod’s "force control" is far more useful than "force power" as it stands atm
- Being permanently overt is no fun
- 1 on 1 Jedi pvp doesn’t happen because it can’t
- being permanently overt Jedi never travel alone always with a group - leads to much Jedi hate from regular players as they are forced to fight large groups of people all the time
- is almost impossible to draw a Jedi in to a 1on1 fight to the end as they can so easily get away
- 200k xp + FRS xp, no one likes xp loss and it does more harm than good
- 200k xp loss at knight is a waste of time and serves no purpose
- If you only lost FRS xp from maintenance and not from dieing more Jedi would stay and fight to the end rather than running away as the reward out ways the risk
Jedi kills need to be satisfying and an achievement for the victor and a leaning experience for the loser, at the moment I can’t remember one that hasn’t been 20v1, a load kill or due to stupid power dot's.
- The imbalance between the light and dark side force mod’s "force control" is far more useful than "force power" as it stands atm
- Being permanently overt is no fun
- 1 on 1 Jedi pvp doesn’t happen because it can’t
- being permanently overt Jedi never travel alone always with a group - leads to much Jedi hate from regular players as they are forced to fight large groups of people all the time
- is almost impossible to draw a Jedi in to a 1on1 fight to the end as they can so easily get away
- 200k xp + FRS xp, no one likes xp loss and it does more harm than good
- 200k xp loss at knight is a waste of time and serves no purpose
- If you only lost FRS xp from maintenance and not from dieing more Jedi would stay and fight to the end rather than running away as the reward out ways the risk
Jedi kills need to be satisfying and an achievement for the victor and a leaning experience for the loser, at the moment I can’t remember one that hasn’t been 20v1, a load kill or due to stupid power dot's.