Jedi Archive

Thread: Since Cloak will be useless now Baciacca...

Harkonenov
Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:33 am
#27

another nerf is coming...as usually. I'm not surprised. It is really interesting for me - whatlike Jedi will become by the end of the year 2005 ? I'm (sorry - I was) in SWG since 2003 (august 2003), I've become jedi in sept. 2004, and Knighn in April 2005. Now I've cancelled all my 5 accounts, leaving only 1 - with jedi - but not becouse of jedi, but becouse of my alt. I - personnaly - do not like this changes, but I can live with them, BUT :


- ok, MLS is useless now,

- ok, Deffender was nerfed,

- ok, Doc / CM can heal just better then jedi (no force, no items to heal - u need nothing for bakta and ets., btw)

- ok,Powers are weak and the most cool thing in Powers is nerfed,

......


tell me 1 thing, please - removing / nerfing smthing - when jedi will gain smth. ? Cloack will be less usefull/popular, ok, but give smth. usefull to powers, then.





/t Feyda
/t Harkonenov
/t Kvak
EvilAztec
Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:39 am
#28


If it was really the DWB looters (which I disagreed with myself) all they had to do was make interaction break it. They didn't have to add the snare, or remove the ability to heal oneself (others as I posted earlier would be a breaker though).


Since this is likely to go through I urge everyone to call for nerfs on the following professions:


Swordsmen, TKA, Doctors, CMs, BH, Riflemen, Pistoleers, Carbineers, CH's, Fencers, et al. Heck just find a regular class with an annoying skill that needsa minortweak. Then call for a major nerf. Heck, itworks against us.







Scoooter wrote:





EvilAztec wrote:

Read the post junior. I don't care about not being able to heal others (only myself) nor am I a loot **edit** and did not agree with the DWB looters.


RTFP before you reply Junior.





Atz_Breh wrote:

OMG cry harder...


now cloak will work like intended...


cloak never was intended for looting or healing stuff....













Well it was the dwb looters, cloakers that would shut of faction terms etc. that caused this


I suggest you jump on TC as soon as this hits so you can see what affect it truly has on cloak. Like the other poster has. It's obvious beciase of rifleman cover that not all would apply to all professions.


The dev's have stated that cloak wasn meant to be a first strike tool and ont an escape tool, howvever the snare lind of negates that also











Did you know
SOE has changed this game 3 times
Jedi went from being an Icon to a normal profession
The combat system is being reduced to Enemy Territory online
"If I wanted to play a FPS I'd launch CS 1.6"
iskareot
Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:48 am
#29

You guys had to know this was coming..


I mean I know cloak is fun and cool but there is so many issues with it being abused its not funny.


If it was not we would not be having this convo



__________________________________________________________________
In the context of new development methods adopted within the past year by the studio responsible for Star Wars Galaxies, which a year ago saw several drastic changes to the game-world's overall experience, SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes."
Divine-Shadow
Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:49 am
#30






Kitibacca wrote:





Divine-Shadow wrote:

If your cloaked, Who cares if you are snared, You shouldn't be able to attack or be attacked when cloaked, What is the dam problem here??? Oh i see, Now you can't walk into a base and shut it down while cloaked, Or travel while cloaked, Or attack while cloaked, heal an overt while cloaked....Shall I go on??????? In other words you can't do something now with out having a consequence.


So once again how is cloak now NOT an escape route as you claim it to be, DId they make it so you can't cloak while being attack, make the range longer???


Idon't get some of you people.






-- wrong answer.


I, like the other powers types I'm seeing post here, actually know how cloak works in relation to escaping. A root and/or snare will negate that entirely -- absolutely negate it. The BH won't even need a droid or follow command -- they can just continue using their tracking droids to follow you around and drain your force pool. This is just sickening. Are you people to stupid to realize what all the nerf requests are doing to this game??? They are apparently the ONLY requests that the developers pay any attention to. It's like there is a profession titled : "nerf hunters." 'The master box in nerf hunting grants to power to instantly remove one skill from the profession of the hunter's choice.'


As for the developers -- I don't get them either. It's like there are complaints that are valid about a skill .. cloaking since we are talking about that in this thread. Ok .. healing others while cloaked? I can see fixing that one though I think healing yourself should be valid conceptually. Loot farming? Ok, cut it -- same with pulling aggros. Fine. But instead of going in and tweaking a skill or just fixing bugs -- if that is what they are instead of the skill being used as intended -- they NEVER DO THAT. They just say ... ok .. that one wasn't perfect or that one is getting complaints to tweak it or fix a couple bugs. Hmm....if we fix a bug isn't that like admitted we allowed a bug? Oh, I know .. better idea. .. let's just change it to a new skill entirely. Then we don't have to admit it was broke in the first place, and we can reset the nerf clock and go on to something else before we have to come back and change it around entirely again in a couple months!


very frustrated Kiti







I'm not even going to read past your first sentence, If your cloaked you shouldnt be able to be attacked, therefore you have escaped, Now go cry about the area attacks and follow, thanks and bye.





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Malack203
Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:57 am
#31

What I'm wondering about is Channel Force...they said that a number of non-combat actions will break cloak, so will that include Channel?

I can see why the interaction with terminals and such needed to be changed, but why add a snare? I would be fine with the changes if there won't be a snare, and we can still heal OURSELVES and channel and such...



Malack Trask - Elder Dark Jedi
Nebo_Sabot
Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:09 pm
#32

YEAH!!! Defender for everyone. nuff said
EvilAztec
Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:16 pm
#33

Does the post, anywhere in the post, say anything about BH droid not updating? I didn't see it.


The magical updating waypoint lets them follow you everywhere, JUNIOR!







Divine-Shadow wrote:





EvilAztec wrote:

When you fell out of that tree, you hit every branch on the way down, didn't you?


I can't escape if they can follow me around until I've got no force JUNIOR.





Divine-Shadow wrote:



I'm not even going to read past your first sentence, If your cloaked you shouldnt be able to be attacked, therefore you have escaped, Now go cry about the area attacks and follow, thanks and bye.











Once again read what im saying you tard.










Did you know
SOE has changed this game 3 times
Jedi went from being an Icon to a normal profession
The combat system is being reduced to Enemy Territory online
"If I wanted to play a FPS I'd launch CS 1.6"
Kiranie
Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:46 pm
#34

Cry CRY CRY.

Waaaaaaahmbulance



Kiranna - Jedi Master

Please drop off my auction winnings at -4134 -1786
Smuggler's Haven - Corelia
Drazharr
Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:55 pm
#35






Big-Rug wrote:

The point made by Helios, is that these are some of the common rulesets that have been reworked to cover the stealth system for SWG. However, not all of the rules will apply to every profession in every situation. For example, Rifleman using cover to stealth will still be able to attack from a stealthed state. Camo'd rangers with have a root applied to them, but will be able to move stealthed by investing in the 0004 tree.


I think it is likely cloak will not have a snare applied to it as it is a mind trick, not a jedi being tip-toe sneaky sneaky. My point is this: The rules will be applied on a case by case system.. not universally applied; and secondly to stop jumping the gun and jumping to conclusions.. crying nerf and whining even before a system hits test centre.



Regards,


BR







You must have read a different dev thread than I did. The one I read said cloak will be like Rifleman's cover. That point was very clear.


That's unacceptable and makes cloak a crock.




"The Unknown Jedi" - SWG Player Since June 23, 2003
SoloBacca1
Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:00 pm
#36

Brother go take a cold cola... our DEVs is good, I have always been a big agree'er on what they do, but soon I would lose the trusting in thier actions... I understand you its right before you exit... relax I hear a Revamp would come when Obi-Wan arrive he would free us!




Mossa TheGreat

FIGHT
Light up your Lighter


Drazharr
Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:09 pm
#37






Divine-Shadow wrote:






Kitibacca wrote:





Divine-Shadow wrote:

If your cloaked, Who cares if you are snared, You shouldn't be able to attack or be attacked when cloaked, What is the dam problem here??? Oh i see, Now you can't walk into a base and shut it down while cloaked, Or travel while cloaked, Or attack while cloaked, heal an overt while cloaked....Shall I go on??????? In other words you can't do something now with out having a consequence.


So once again how is cloak now NOT an escape route as you claim it to be, DId they make it so you can't cloak while being attack, make the range longer???


Idon't get some of you people.






-- wrong answer.


I, like the other powers types I'm seeing post here, actually know how cloak works in relation to escaping. A root and/or snare will negate that entirely -- absolutely negate it. The BH won't even need a droid or follow command -- they can just continue using their tracking droids to follow you around and drain your force pool. This is just sickening. Are you people to stupid to realize what all the nerf requests are doing to this game??? They are apparently the ONLY requests that the developers pay any attention to. It's like there is a profession titled : "nerf hunters." 'The master box in nerf hunting grants to power to instantly remove one skill from the profession of the hunter's choice.'


As for the developers -- I don't get them either. It's like there are complaints that are valid about a skill .. cloaking since we are talking about that in this thread. Ok .. healing others while cloaked? I can see fixing that one though I think healing yourself should be valid conceptually. Loot farming? Ok, cut it -- same with pulling aggros. Fine. But instead of going in and tweaking a skill or just fixing bugs -- if that is what they are instead of the skill being used as intended -- they NEVER DO THAT. They just say ... ok .. that one wasn't perfect or that one is getting complaints to tweak it or fix a couple bugs. Hmm....if we fix a bug isn't that like admitted we allowed a bug? Oh, I know .. better idea. .. let's just change it to a new skill entirely. Then we don't have to admit it was broke in the first place, and we can reset the nerf clock and go on to something else before we have to come back and change it around entirely again in a couple months!


very frustrated Kiti







I'm not even going to read past your first sentence, If your cloaked you shouldnt be able to be attacked, therefore you have escaped, Now go cry about the area attacks and follow, thanks and bye.





You're letting your emotion keep you from thinking logically. Let's anaylze this logically, based on what you wrote:


If you're cloaked,you can't be attacked. That is correct. But now let's hear the rest of the story:


You're cloaked and with this new nerf on the way, you are snared and you can't get away. When your force runs out, well, hello there Mr. Jedi, nice to see you. You get killed.


You won't be able to escape with this nerf. That's why you are factually wrong here.


With this nerf, cloak essentially becomes like using Avoid Incap - it's waiting to die. It's useless.


Unless Powers damage is drastically increased, choke will be the only good move left for Powers folks. Master Enhancer will be better to take than Master Powers if this nerf goes through - and that's pretty sad state of Jedi affairs.


If Powers damage is not increased, then MLS/MDef or MLS/Master Enhancer will be the only logical dual masteries if this stupid nerf goes through. If the devs truly want Jedi diversity, they will stop this insanity before it starts.



"The Unknown Jedi" - SWG Player Since June 23, 2003
Phenix1050
Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:18 pm
#38






Drazharr wrote:


You're cloaked and with this new nerf on the way, you are snared and you can't get away. When your force runs out, well, hello there Mr. Jedi, nice to see you. You get killed.


You won't be able to escape with this nerf. That's why you are factually wrong here.


With this nerf, cloak essentially becomes like using Avoid Incap - it's waiting to die. It's useless.





Perhaps you're confusing root and snare. Snare slows you down, root makes you unable to more. Where a lot of people seem to get hung up is assuming all snares are equal. This is not true. Rifleman get /kneecapshot, which is a snare. However, it only appears to reduce your speed by about 5%, which is a very little bit. Other snares, such a Rangers' Phecnacine Dart, reduce speed by about 75%. This is very powerful and noticable.


You have no idea the degree of the snare. If it is close to /kneecapshot, you'll barely notice it in application. If it's more like Rangers' phecnacine dart, you'll still be able to go quite a distance before you run out of force, especially if the BH isn't able to stay around you.


To make this change successful however, they have to remove BH droids from being able to track you once you're cloaked, and they have to remove the ability to AoE and hit the cloaked Jedi AND they have to remove the use of / commands to be able to attack cloaked Jedi and being able to follow them. If they fix the issues with cloak, the movement restriction and the inability to heal will not be of major concern. Sure, there will still be some danger, but having a benefit like being invisible needs some counters. That's why Ranger stealth is balanced-- it's time restricted and it can be countered.


But until we see how much it reduces speed, all this doom and gloom stuff is speculation. and like I've said, speculation will never take the place of information. Until you have hard data on the degree of the snare, you really can't say that it will make the skill useless. Honestly a 5% movement speed decrease is about what a BH gets while holding a weapon...if that's what cloak is like, you're barely gonna notice it.



PHE'NIX ANTARUS
BOTHAN ELDER RANGER
BEST LOOKINGSPY EVER--FOUNDER OF SATGWNIWNU
BURNING H*TPANTS SINCE 2003


This is horrible! I return to find my new title on the forum is "Jedi". What's up with that? If they wanted to confer that I'm rare and learned, they'd make my title RANGER. and then make it camo colored.
Drazharr
Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:28 pm
#39






Phenix1050 wrote:






Drazharr wrote:


You're cloaked and with this new nerf on the way, you are snared and you can't get away. When your force runs out, well, hello there Mr. Jedi, nice to see you. You get killed.


You won't be able to escape with this nerf. That's why you are factually wrong here.


With this nerf, cloak essentially becomes like using Avoid Incap - it's waiting to die. It's useless.





Perhaps you're confusing root and snare. Snare slows you down, root makes you unable to more. Where a lot of people seem to get hung up is assuming all snares are equal. This is not true. Rifleman get /kneecapshot, which is a snare. However, it only appears to reduce your speed by about 5%, which is a very little bit. Other snares, such a Rangers' Phecnacine Dart, reduce speed by about 75%. This is very powerful and noticable.


You have no idea the degree of the snare. If it is close to /kneecapshot, you'll barely notice it in application. If it's more like Rangers' phecnacine dart, you'll still be able to go quite a distance before you run out of force, especially if the BH isn't able to stay around you.


To make this change successful however, they have to remove BH droids from being able to track you once you're cloaked, and they have to remove the ability to AoE and hit the cloaked Jedi AND they have to remove the use of / commands to be able to attack cloaked Jedi and being able to follow them. If they fix the issues with cloak, the movement restriction and the inability to heal will not be of major concern. Sure, there will still be some danger, but having a benefit like being invisible needs some counters. That's why Ranger stealth is balanced-- it's time restricted and it can be countered.


But until we see how much it reduces speed, all this doom and gloom stuff is speculation. and like I've said, speculation will never take the place of information. Until you have hard data on the degree of the snare, you really can't say that it will make the skill useless. Honestly a 5% movement speed decrease is about what a BH gets while holding a weapon...if that's what cloak is like, you're barely gonna notice it.





I don't have a thing confused here, bub. I've played a Master Defender with the AI snare nerf and you move like a turtle. You can't get away.


I'm a MLS/MP/Heal 4040. The healing nerf crippled my template already. This one proposed change makes my template completely unviable. I thank Sweet Lordy Jesu5 that I still have my token respec.


Or are they getting rid of that, too?


After playing the game since Day 1, I'm astonished by folks like you that have faith in the devs to do this right. They won't. They never have. I don't think they ever will.


Message Edited by Drazharr on 09-17-2005 05:29 PM



"The Unknown Jedi" - SWG Player Since June 23, 2003
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