Jedi Archive
Thread: Not a petition, not a threat. A simple statement please
We keep getting reassured that 'good stuff will happen', but we've been hearing that for a year now. Does it happen? Once in a while. The chef and DE revamps were pretty decent, but everything else has its problems.
Had SOE been willing to work WITH Jedi, then the vast majority of these problems could have been examined BEFORE they are about to release the patch. Instead, all of us find these big gaping problems with the new system and they either must madly rush (buggy) or simply not fix certain things (lazy).
To top this all off, there is a tremendous lack of responsibility/accountability. Who owns certain professions? Why do those specials not work? Why hasn't it been fixed in a year? Why do all city signs say 'sign'? Why has the AP vulnerability bug persisted for a year or more? Does anyone fix bugs? What bugs are they working on? Why is Keldarin the ONLY developer working on patch 9 (or so it seems)?
While we have been doing 'top 5' issues with correspondents for a long time, no one seems to care until someone says the magic 'revamp' word. At that point, a mad dash occurs. It's poor software development and I often think kids hired out of college could do a better job.
n5ygy wrote:
Oh I forgot to mention why I was leaving the game, and what SOE must change for me to stay.
1. Crystals must must not be rare drop loot only items! They shoule be craftable, and obtainable through quests (notice it did not say OR there). In addition crystal decay is far, far too high.
2. Lightsaber damage is far far too low. XP rate is far too low. LS damage must be raised to about 3x what it is now, without crystals!
3. Not enough skill points in the new trees. Five trees. We need to be able to master AT LEAST 3.5 of 5, not just 2.5. In addition, certain vital skills need to be placed in the padawan box, including, but not limited to:Force run 1 (just make it WORK)
A weaker, yet useful version of meditate
Basic damage healing of all pools
Basic wound healing of all pools, and battle fatigue healing
A basic force power
Some defenses
If all three aren't done, then I'm gone.
And just to be fair, let me explain why I want these things.
I don't care about PVP, and am not going to do the knight trials or enter the FRS. All I ever wanted was to roleplay a jedi. Can't do that right now due to the TEF system, not to mention visibility. Fine. One day, when I was a quad guardian, I figured I could afford to make an occasional apperance... but I found out that, due to the bugs with jedi, 4444 guradian are still defeated by template stackers. (Not blocking melee, no defenses, etc.)
In the new system, a jedi with all skill points used will NOT be viable PVE. No more solo living in the middle of no where jedi. No roleplaying a jedi, because of visibility still. THANK GOD we can go neutral, and not TEF, but that alone is not enough.
The things I've asked for above, will not hurt the FRS, but are enough to make a jedi viable PVE and solo.
With that, maybe I can find a way to RP a jedi after all. But without it, there is no point.
I quit logging in about 5 or 6 weeks ago, and have been waiting for the Revamp to see if it's worth my time to stay and finish levelling my Jedi or not.
Well, needless to say, the revamp is by no means a reason to stay and finish up my Jedi, quite the opposite actually.
Unless the skill point costs are brought down so we can acquire 3.5 trees, experience gains are fixed, and crystals/pearls are made more readily available before this publish hits live, I see no reason whatsover to keep playing SWG.
I pre-paid for a year on Launch day, so with the free month we all got for the borked launch, I have until July 26, then I guess I'm gone, unless SOE rebalances this massive revamp nurf before it goes live.
I have 3 accounts currently.
I am waiting for it to go live.. still grriiiiiinnnding away when i see that i can..
Main reason i would "leave" is that the The INSANE cost of maintaining a FS character..
As of now I Roleplay with a guildmate which makes it fun for us, but I find myself back on my main more and more as he is the ONLY way i can support my FS character.
I have honestly spent 20 million + on the FS character and am 4234 in the padawan tree still..
Im hoping that there will be craftable/questable Items to support these toons instead of relying on other guilds/players who constantly haunt the graveyard and overrun anyone else who goes there
my 2 credits worth....
Almost every one of the complaint posts in this thread is about Jedi characters being "underpowered". Okay, fine, but aren't the Jedi skills/effictiveness designed with the so-called Combat Rebalance in mind. The Combat Rebalance is going to 'nerf' everything in the game, both PC's and NPC's/creatures.
What's the point of saying Jedi are underpowered now if you're not evenpermitted (yet)to compare stats within the context of the Combat Rebalance? Sure, there may be some specific problems, but until Publish 11is released is the overarching theme ofthese complaints even valid?
I hate to break the news to you, but there are several professions out there that have NOTHING going for them. Professions that have many broken specials and absolutely no value in PvP whatsoever (Pistoleer, Carbineer, etc.). Professions with so many broken things/content/missions, it's ridiculous (Bounty Hunter). Professions with no point whatsoever now that new droids/game mechanics have come into play (Scout, Ranger, etc.) Professions that are going to be nerfedseverely with the rebalance (Rifleman,Fencer, etc.)
The bottom line is that every profession hasits "problems", especially problems that relate directly or indirectly with theCombat Rebalance. This includes the Jedi profession. Without the proper context (which is unknown at this point) how can any argument be taken seriously and not come off as more"But, mom, I deserve to be 'uber'" whining?
Message Edited by Metherian on 06-08-2004 04:14 AM
That being said, I don't see myself playing my Jedi much following P9. I have more of a desire to make credits before the CB makes that a lot more difficult. Maybe once I get the moolah to back it up Jedi will be a little more engaging...since the Devs don't seem to care about eliminating the Jedi economy.
Then again, I haven't threatened to cancel yet, nor will I - since I've said in many threads that SOE simply wouldn't care if everyone quit - since by now they're probably operating at a profit and servers/personnel can be reallocated to more profitable ventures.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 06-08-2004 07:53 AM
Why do you insist on comparing Jedi with other professions?
Have you not realized by now that unlocking a Jedi requires months of effort? That levelling a Jedi requires more months upon months of effort?
Yes, other classes have problems, we all know that, as we have all played many of those others classes ourselves. But to compare Jedi, which requires 20X the effort to create and level, with any other class that at most requires a week to level, is pointless, even absurd.
Any noob off the street can buy a copy of SWG and have a master elite in a few days, while Jedi require MONTHS of dedication and work! Not to mention spending a fortune in credits and resources just to play! I have spent over 20 million credits on my Jedi, and he's just a Padawan!
The point here is this: What are the rewards for expending months upon months of effort creating a Jedi Knight? The answer at the moment is NONE.
And if you are placing your faith in the "Combat Revamp," then you are going to be sorely disappointed, just as all Jedi are now disappointed with the "Jedi Revamp."
We will not wait for promised fixes any longer, we are voicing our concerns and dissatisfaction NOW, so that these problems can be fixed BEFORE this abbortion of a Revamp goes Live.;
Lenora wrote:
Unfortunately my jedi account expires June 21st. :/
I am on the fence as to whether or not to cancel based on TC2's implementation...but so far looks like I have been majorly disappointed and 95% sure this is the end for me.
ROFL...
Of course I should have just quit back when Garva posted this big lie...too bad he never came back to admit he was wrong.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=276046
2/18/04
---------------------------------------
The System has not changed guys...
the Loot drops have not changed....
HOWEVER at the request of many, the system IS being revamped in the near future. (no eta sorry)
GarVa
SWG Community Relations Representative
-----------------------------------------
I'm sorry I should have been more clear, I mean crystal drops are still at the same level as before the patch.
Yes there were new items added to the "Game Loot" such as the items for the new schematics, but crystal drops were not
altered.
GarVa
SWG Community Relations Representative
----------------------------------------------
Actually at that time the system had not changed and neither had the loot drops:X. He even said a revamp was coming, but he probably knew nothing about the specifics.
Metherian wrote:What is disappointing about the Jedi revamp? The fact that you don't APPEAR 'uber'? Well, given the fact that the so-called revamp isn't really COMPLETED yet (due to it being directly influenced by the rebalance--it won't really be completed until publish 11), how can you even make this assertion? /boggle
The devs have made a HUGE mistake in this revamp: planning for the rebalance.
Consider the following:
The combat rebalance will 'reduce' the power of creatures, professions, armor, etc....
The rebalance will not happen until publish 11.
The Jedi are being developed for the rebalance, but are being released in publish 9.
So, pre-rebalanced professions and creatures are now going to be mixed with post-rebalanced Jedi.
This scenario will persist for at least 2 months.
What should have been done is that the Jedi should have been developed for LIVE conditions, then rebalanced along with all the other professions. Instead, they will be gimped for several months. Not fun.
Unfortunately my jedi account expires June 21st. :/
I am on the fence as to whether or not to cancel based on TC2's implementation...but so far looks like I have been majorly disappointed and 95% sure this is the end for me.
ROFL...
Of course I should have just quit back when Garva posted this big lie...too bad he never came back to admit he was wrong.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=276046
2/18/04
---------------------------------------
The System has not changed guys...
the Loot drops have not changed....
HOWEVER at the request of many, the system IS being revamped in the near future. (no eta sorry)
GarVa
SWG Community Relations Representative
-----------------------------------------
I'm sorry I should have been more clear, I mean crystal drops are still at the same level as before the patch.
Yes there were new items added to the "Game Loot" such as the items for the new schematics, but crystal drops were not
altered.
GarVa
SWG Community Relations Representative
----------------------------------------------
JarekStorm wrote:
Why do you insist on comparing Jedi with other professions?
Have you not realized by now that unlocking a Jedi requires months of effort? That levelling a Jedi requires more months upon months of effort?
Yes, other classes have problems, we all know that, as we have all played many of those others classes ourselves. But to compare Jedi, which requires 20X the effort to create and level, with any other class that at most requires a week to level, is pointless, even absurd.
Any noob off the street can buy a copy of SWG and have a master elite in a few days, while Jedi require MONTHS of dedication and work! Not to mention spending a fortune in credits and resources just to play! I have spent over 20 million credits on my Jedi, and he's just a Padawan!
The point here is this: What are the rewards for expending months upon months of effort creating a Jedi Knight? The answer at the moment is NONE.
And if you are placing your faith in the "Combat Revamp," then you are going to be sorely disappointed, just as all Jedi are now disappointed with the "Jedi Revamp."
We will not wait for promised fixes any longer, we are voicing our concerns and dissatisfaction NOW, so that these problems can be fixed BEFORE this abbortion of a Revamp goes Live.;
I can only assume you're referring to my post. (If not, then ignore the following.)
I am not comparing Jedi and other professions. I am drawing parallels between all the professions, in order to illuminate the fact that EVERYTHING is going to be nerfed with the combat rebalance. Yes, everyone knows it took a long 'grind' to unlock Jedi. But that's beside the point.
The point of my argument is that you cannot make a valid criticism of the current Jedi system without fully understanding what it is being measured against. This has nothing to do with profession comparisons. I brought up the fact that other professions are going to be just as affected as the Jedi profession ... as a way of illustrating that the Combat Rebalance will affect everyone and everything. The general themeon these boards---as evidenced by your need to jump to the defense of Jedi everywhere---is that Jedishould be all powerful because they take/took a long time to unlock. Okay, fine--I agree with you.Again, that's not the point of my post. Everyone knows that Jedishould be powerful. The pointeveryone seems to be missing is that 'powerful' is a relative term defined by the contextwithin which it is defined.
How do you know that Jedi are not going to be more powerful than your average combatprofession after the combat rebalance? How do you know that all ofthe other professions aren't going to be nerfed just as bad asJedi, if notworse? You talk like Jedi has been nerfed and everythingelse is going to stay the same ...which isabsurd.
What is disappointing about the Jedi revamp? The fact that you don'tAPPEAR 'uber'? Well, given the fact that the so-called revamp isn'treally COMPLETEDyet (due to it being directly influenced by the rebalance--it won't really be completed until publish 11), how can you even make this assertion?/boggle
If, three months from now, Jedi areat the same powerlevel that they are now, and TKA's, riflemen and fencers are still running around like little 'uber' gods, well then, yeah,the Jedi profession has a problem. But these are the very things that the combat rebalance is supposed to address, right? As I've said in another post, the dev's have to getthe rebalance right if they want to keeppeople playing this game. I'm willing to give them thebenefit of the doubt until publish 11. The problem is that every Jedi player and their brother want 'uberness'--and they want it right now. And a part of me doesn't blame them for that. They've put in the time, they should deserve something in return. But, as I said before, a lot of people have been waiting for professions to be fixed--professions that have been whacked since release--so to hear every Jedi talk about not being 'uber' now (especially when publish 11 isn't even out yet) get's kind of old really fast.
Message Edited by Metherian on 06-08-2004 12:43 PM
My reasons:
1. Force Regen is too slow to be fun.
I've timed full regen at 17 min and 20 min on different templates. Meditation brings it down to 5+ min. How can I possibly defend myself from a BH hit squad when my force pool will evaporate in 30 seconds of hard defense?
Then there's PvM. Sorry, but I can't stop play every min or two to meditate for 5 min. The revamp is almost identical to EQ regen rates. It was the same thing there. You fight hard for 30-60 seconds and meditate for 4-5 min. There's only so much reading to be done and tv to be watched while waiting out a regen timer. I refuse to have more downtime per hour than play time the way EQ does. I quit EQ over this issue.
2. Jedi will be "slightly better" than a normal prof.
I worked my butt off to unlock. I've been working my butt off in complete isolation to grind up enough xp to defend myself. I can go for literally days without seeing another player. Now they not only want to nerf me, but they want to keep the xp requirements at insane levels, too? I don't think so. I'm not working my butt off for no reward. I want a Jedi that's functional not decorative. It's either very, very hard and very, very rewarding, or I'm very, very gone.
3. The lightsaber system is functionally identical to the old one.
Saber have never been the problem. The whole problem has been pearls and crystals are too hard to get. Now they're too hard to get, and I can't repair my saber. Is this a joke? Are they listening to us at all?
4. SOE doesn't want Jedi in the game except as a carrot for marketing reasons.
They've been playing games with us with nerfs and stealth nerfs to slow us down and keep unlocks down. This revamp looks like another nerf to keep jedi buried in obscurity. Now that I'm finally getting somewhere with my jedi they want to nerf me down to initiate while raising the xp requirements. If they don't want us to play our Jedi, it shouldn't be in the game.
Basically, I'm tired of getting strung along by empty promises of a better tomorrow. No more. Pub 9 is make or break. I'm giving them one last chance to make it right. No BS. No games. SOE is going to have to put up or shut up. I've run out of patience.